randyjawa 

The last time I commented on an Ebay seller, I got my butt kicked here. Cannot say that I enjoyed that much but I did learn a thing or two about myself. Sadly, perhaps not enough learning because I feel the need to comment on this situation.


The above Raleigh Professional is offered on Ebay. The frame looks to be bent, to me, and I sent a message, to the seller, asking if it was bent. The seller responded, promptly I might add, by writing...

"No the frame in the front is curved, that's how the bike was built".

The seller has zero feedback and I cannot help but think that he, or she, might not really believe that the frame is compromised. I am also wondering why he or she thinks the bike is a Professional.

What do you think? Is this a Raleigh Professional and were road bikes ever made this way? I am thinking nope to both questions.

JohnDThompson 

It certainly looks bent to me, and no, it's not a "Professional" model.

Couldn't even be bothered to pump up the tires for the picture.

Dylansbob 

Very rare. Raleigh Capri with Stayer geometry.

iab

The seller is incorrect.

T-Mar

I've ever seen a Raleigh Pro with stamped dropouts and safety tab holes on the fork, let alone steel rims, nutted axles, brake safety levers, stem mounted shift levers, etc. It looks like a mid-1980s, entry level Raleigh Sportif to me. Ans that frame is definitely bent in the top and down tubes, just behind the head tube. Whatcha trying to pull, Randy? It's not April 1.

3alarmer 

...this picture from another thread, but I had a kid come in with a fork bent just like this at the bike co-op when I was still working Saturdays. He had had it, and the frame he wanted to use it on, freshly powdercoated, and he wanted me to help him fit the fork to the frame (not the original fork), so he could make a fixie out of it. The fork needed the race milled, and to be rethreaded a few inches, then shortened. I tried to explain that it was so bent that I was not comfortable straightening it, and that I was sorry about the powdercoat expense, but he really needed to find another fork. Couldn't be done. He insisted it was a custom fork, he liked the curves, and everything was fine...I was mistaken.

IIRC, he finally badgered that day's manager into doing those operations for him. I had moved on by then.

About a month later he came back in to post an image of the finished fixie, which had been stolen from a bike rack out in front of one of the local brew pubs. He really wanted to get it back, with the custom fork and all, because he liked the way it rides. So there you go.

Pcampeau

Frame is bent to be sure! It’s smashed pretty hard. The bike is a lower end model called “Sportif” and not a Professional. I’ve had a couple of Sportif bikes come through my hands and they are not built this way. I own two Professionals, an MKIV and an MKV, they’re not built this way either. The top tube even says “Sportif”. It’s also a Taiwan built Raleigh Raleigh USA model and not a made in Worksop England bike so it’s really not even from the same company.

randyjawa 

What am I trying to pull? Nothing but it does bug me to see such blatant claims and then responses on Ebay. I see this sort of thing, now and again, and feel the need to start a conversation about it. The last time I did get my butt kicked by fellow forum members. To that add that there is a weird looking fork, seen now and again, that turns out to be the real deal. I would have thought it to be badly bent but that is not the case.

While on this subject of bent or not bent, I will be offering twenty bucks for a late sixties Legnano Gran Premio on Monday. Why twenty bucks? Bent and rusted frame and fork, missing and/or rusted components but a decent set of Universal 61 brake calipers and levers, a proper Legnano seat post clamp bolt (rare item) and a lovely original head badge (I will put the badge on the For Sale forum if the seller goes for my offer).

Back to what I am trying to pull. What really bugs me is isolation! My wife and I, both in our mid seventies, and being kinda ill (heart conditions, blood condition, lung condition, arthritis and diminished immune system), have spent the last year and a half not going to Jamaica and self isolating at our cottage on the shore of Loon Lake. I am only trying to get in a little social interaction with like minded people who enjoy vintage road bikes. And the folks here, at Bike Forums, are my primary source of social interaction. My front yard and Loon Lake in the back ground (where my son, when seven and a half years old, caught a 7+ pound bass, right off of the end of my dock many years ago and I still carry a picture of him trying to hold it up at arm's length)...

3alarmer 

BFisher

I get it, Randy. I think there are times when we all encounter stupidity, deceitfulness, and/or woeful ignorance, and feel compelled to grab the arm of an acquaintance and go, "Can you believe this fool?" That bike very obviously has severe front-end damage.

Not long ago there was a thread on here where a member bought a Motobecane Grand Record from an eBay seller. In that thread the pictures posted showed that the frame was bent. It was unmistakable. The frame was white with blue graphics. Well, the OP sent the frame back, presumably (hopefully) for a refund. Wouldn't you know it, that frame was back up for sale on eBay with no claim of frame damage. I messaged the seller to call out the damage and never received a response.

repechage

ebay dropped the publication of questions and answers. That is too bad.

Perhaps it is the Salvador Dali signature version?

clubman 

Obviously not a Pro and obviously bent. Zero feedback?. Nothing to discuss.

steelbikeguy

I think it was yesterday when I sent this seller a comment that this frame was bent and should be disclosed. No reply that I've noticed yet. Considering the zero feedback, I figured the seller might honestly not know it was bent. I just hope there's not a buyer that is similarly clueless and wants to buy it.

Steve in Peoria

SurferRosa

I think there's already a thread for this:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...y-ads-844.html

USAZorro

Not a Professional. Not a 'bent. Obviously IS bent.

If someone buys it from him based on the listing and his response that it isn't bent, e-Bay (the company) will not be kind to him. If anyone is interested in a donor bike that's bound to eventually only cost you the hassle of getting your money refunded...

noobinsf 

Randy, you should report the item if you’re concerned. Otherwise, come on, you know better than to trust a seller like this.

nomadmax 

A thief wil steal and a murderer will kill, but you never really know where you stand with a liar.

uncle uncle

I think you did right Randy. You made them aware of it, and they responded with an opinion that doesn't align with yours. What other recourse do you think there is for you in this matter, that you think you could provide novice bike purchasers? I know I sometimes don't take the advice of others well, I'm combatant at first, but later, upon reflection, replay their advice in my head. It hard to not be correct, and embarrassing, when put on the spot. But this world could use more "Randy's" among us, looking after us, and stepping up even when there is no benefit to themselves.

iab

In the last thread you stated an opinion and for some reason didn't and still do not expect others to have a different viewpoint. This thread is a statement of fact, the frame is bent and it isn't a Pro.

Do you see the difference now?

Schreck83 

Let’s be charitable and assume the seller is referring to the fork rake. His response assumes you know less about bikes than he does. Asking if the frame is bent is different than asking if the top tube is bent. Asking about the top tube may yield a different response. Of course this assumes the seller knows what a top tube is.

SurferRosa

^ This.

I mean, come on.

clubman 

You are far too tolerant. He was asked and then he asserted that the frame is straight. This is fraudulent, period. Deliberate or blatant ignorance of truth has become way too permissible imo.

Clang

Yeah, this belongs in the Wacky thread. There's text that says Sportif right on the top tube. A seller that's lying about the model is one that will respond to your concerns about frame damage saying it's built that way. At the end of the day, it's a very poor scam by a very dumb seller and it can only work if they find someone dumber to buy the thing no questions asked. It's best not to engage directly with these people because their answers will only make you angrier, and nobody really needs that.

randyjawa 

Believe what you feel comfortable with. Read all of the posts and, hopefully, you will come to understand why I started the thread. To that add this - even after all my years of working on vintage road bicycles, it never surprises me when I learn something new. Thanks for pointing out the number of posts and number of years participating. I never thought to pay much attention to that information. Yup, something new every now and again.

malcala622

Did the seller point out its for a more aggressive riding position?