Paul Barnard

Why not?

MoAlpha

I often ride home from work on a piece of four-lane parkway with a 35 mph speed limit and a 3-4’ shoulder. If I ride 6” to the right of the fog line, I get repeated close passes. Six inches to the left of the fog line and it doesn’t happen nearly as often. In fact they often give me the whole lane. My interpretation is that if I’m on the shoulder, I’m not even on the road and can be effectively ignored. I don’t ride on narrow shoulders for this and other reasons. A clean, wide, uninterrupted, shoulder is a fine place to ride, with the usual caveat about turning traffic.

Steve B.

Agree, being too far onto a shoulder increases the likelihood of getting hit by a car turning right. I often completely take a lane when I see a place where cars will pass and try to right hook me. Taking the a bit of the lane actually makes them slow and wait to turn behind me.

NJgreyhead

Thanks for linking that court case, GhostRider62 . Tragic outcome (may she rest in peace) caused by a lousy ‘depression’ in the shoulder; it does reinforce the notion to always be mindful of the risks we take on to ride our bikes on the roads and shoulders. It is possible she only took her eyes off the road surface for a moment. Damn.

Let’s all be careful out there.

Iride01 

I wouldn't ride the shoulder for many reasons.

• It often full of gravel shoved to the side by faster motor vehicle traffic and full of other litter.
• If you watch the various TV shows that show videos, they many times show traffic stops and other vehicles stopped on the side of the road getting plowed into by other vehicles. I imagine those were very distracted drivers that picked up on the wrong queues in their peripheral vision while they were distracted. Be really nice to know why so many plow into a stopped vehicle or officer giving a ticket. to someone.
• When I'm a motorist and see a cyclist in the shoulder and approaching a bridge that has no shoulder then I wonder what to do. Will the cyclist stop and wait for traffic or will they suddenly just jump to the lane since they got there first? And if I slow down too much to try to give the cyclist time to take the lane and get across the bridge, then I have traffic piling up behind me and I'm pretty certain one of them will attempt to pass even with the bridge coming up and creating a even worse situation for the cyclist and me.
• Shoulders sometimes end suddenly in other areas besides bridges. So same situation as bridges.
• I feel more comfortable in the traffic lane. Most drivers IMO around here are reasonably diligent about not wanting to have a accident or hurt anyone. When I'm in the traffic lane, vehicles see me and know they have to adjust accordingly.
• Sure one day someone not paying attention might come along. But again, that person not paying attention might just pick up on the wrong visual clues even if I was cycling on the shoulder and still run me down.
• Or perhaps I'll get that one in a bajillion drivers that is inflamed enough with rage toward cyclist that they'll run me over. But that person will probably do that whether I'm in the traffic lane or shoulder.
• And somewhat importantly, by being in the traffic lane and following the same rules of the road other traffic follows, I can be somewhat assured that some if not many motorist will understand how I will react when coming up on other traffic, turns and intersections that are ahead of both of us.
• I'm entitled to use the traffic lane so I will use it. That doesn't mean I'll cycle on any road no matter how busy. I use my own judgement to assess what roads I'm willing to risk my life on. And that's the same for if I'm in a car driving.

I probably left out a few better reasons.

FBinNY 

Search "Target fixation".

In a nutshell, humans are descended from predators and still have a tendency to lock onto and track a target. Then inorder to hunt effectively we automatically go where we're looking.

When drivers look right to something on the shoulder, they tend to drift to the right. OOPS!

Staying in the lane keeps cyclists in the driver's conscious sight lines and has him (her), thinking about passing, rather than drifting into something he's not consciously expecting to hit.

livedarklions

NH has a FRAP law and also defines "way", which means road in legalese, as including the entire paved surface, so I believe I am required to ride on the shoulder where practicable. The shoulder is definitely included as part of the way. TBH, riding elsewhere on a divided highway with a big shoulder would be crazy in this state and literally no one does it. The only time I'm in the lane on such a road is dealing with turns and turn lanes.

Just to be clear, this is true under NH law. Most states don't include the shoulder.

FBinNY 

A subtle distinction can make a big difference."

"Shoulder" may reference the section of a continuous paved surface to the right of the fog line. Or a one truly distinct from roadway, ie. a blacktop area adjoining a concrete roadway.

Regardless of how a state defines road and shoulder, the difference is critical to bicyclists because of dangers created by the berm.

Riding over painted lines is a non-issue, but berms can an do cause crashes, some of which can be fatal.

Paul Barnard

I never have understood why some cyclists eschew ALL bike lanes, MUPs and shoulders because some suck.

The feel I get from your post is that you consider all shoulders the same. There are some shoulders that are absolutely fantastic for cycling. No intersections, no debris, run continuously for long stretches. I certainly don't have the data to support it, but my belief is that I am more likely to be hit by a distracted motorist in the lane than on the shoulder. My observations are that most of the distracted drivers I see spend most of their time in their lane rather than on the shoulder.

I don't have the data to support this position either. I have a hunch that a cyclist cycling on a good shoulder is less likely to piss off a motorist than a cyclist who is riding in the lane when there's a good shoulder.

You also mentioned coming to bridges and other places where the shoulder ends. It's pretty easy to plan for that in a lot of locations and traffic conditions. Move into the lane when it's safe to do so. Just like any other merging situation. This is a popular bicycling road. The shoulder here is great for riding. There's no reason for me to be out in the lane whatsoever. When I come up on the bridge, I start planning ahead of time. I may ease up on my speed or increase my speed to arrive at a time that works best for overall traffic flow and safety.

Paul Barnard

This is another shoulder/parking lane that I will ride. I ride it when traffic volume is relatively low. Cars typically come up from behind in pulses of 4-6 on account of traffic lights. Where I can be on the shoulder, I am, and those drivers get to keep on keeping on. It's a dance of sorts. A little give and take. Sometimes I have to step out into the lane to go around parked cars. I may have to slow or accelerate a little to make it work well. I don't mind. When I drive, I sometimes slow or accelerate to facilitate harmonious flow, so no sense in being dogmatic about it when I ride. I am also aware that cross traffic is less likely to perceive me as traffic while I am on the shoulder, so I may move into the lane when I see cross traffic. To me it's all part of the dance of give and take. I never compromise safety for the appeasement of motorists, but I don't mind occasional inconveniences in the name of courtesy.

Iride01 

Did I say that? I don't think so. If you think that is what I'm doing then you are imagining that I eschew all bike lanes, MUPs and shoulders. Although so far I haven't found a shoulder that I'd ride.

I ride a MUP quite a bit. And there are some cycling lanes here that I do ride on the rare times I go that route. And a favored route involves 30 some miles of various two lane roads with no shoulders whatsoever.

I just take exception to those that think we must never ride in a traffic lane and must use shoulders every time they are available or else we are stupid for not doing so.

Paul Barnard

You do eschew all shoulders. Others eschew all or some of the ones I mentioned just because some of them suck. Cyclist can be very dogmatic: "I wouldn't be in the shoulder unless state law required me to be in the shoulder."

Iride01 

But only so far. There might be a time that I choose to ride a shoulder if the road I must travel on is deemed too unsafe by my judgement. However I don't know when or why that might happen. I have too many other roads that go where I wish.

The big difference here is I use my own judgement for myself and don't make blanket statements telling others that they must do as I do. I'm hopefully very simply showing that I can do in my area what others are saying everyone must never do.

And I'm not accusing you of making such statements as mostly you are only fleshing out arguments either way. At least I think so, I'm not going to go back to see.

Paul Barnard

You impress me as a reasonable and responsible rider. That's why I wanted to feel you out on your comment and share my perspective.

FBinNY 

IMO this whole use or not use shoulders debate proves that my rule#1 is right.

There are no rules---- Everything is about rhe situation.

If there's a nice rideable shoulder, use it if you want, otherwise don't.

10 Wheels

How would You Ride THIS ONE.

UniChris

I think relatively few people actually do that.

But at the same time, most of us have probably experienced situations where the fact that otherwise tempting space was designated as a bike lane has caused those on one side of the line, or the other, to make very situationally ignorant decisions, because they looked only at the designation, and not the reality of relative movements and intentions.

I'm much more worried about being right hooked while riding in a "bike lane" than I am if riding in the same undesignated space, because that designation causes both the driver and I to behave differently - even though I'm trying my absolute best to forget that it's a bike lane, the sometimes very unsafe suggestion of those markings is hard to fully ignore.

Actively countermanding something isn't ignoring it either - it's very hard to exercise exactly the same judgement you would have in the absence of markings, when there are in fact markings - "do I or don't I" becomes a distraction from "what is truly safest in this instant?"

livedarklions

I generally agree with you except I frequently find shoulders that are definitely superior to riding in the traffic lane.

Here's a slow stretch of one I ride a lot--I have never seen a cyclist ride to the left of the speed bumps, the pavement (which has been improved since this picture was taken) has always been as good on both sides of the white line, and the prevailing speed of the cars is far above the posted speed limit.

Honest question--would you actually ride the traffic lane on this road? Those lanes are very narrow, and the shoulder is absurdly wide.

Bmach

Not sure is this applies to all states but in my state a cyclist is considered a vehicle. Traffic laws state a vehicle cannot cross the solid white line. So by those rule cyclist should be to the left of the solid white line and not towards the edge of the road when the roads are lined.

FBinNY 

At some point just about anyone riding roads will encounter a merge of this type, with or without a bike lane. They're not at all rare, and I pass similar situations almost daily. Knowing how to manage one is a critical road bike skill.

The solution is to start scouting an opportunity to move right into the merging lane as early as practical. Once you make that lane change your not going to have some nut try to squeeze past on your right.

FBinNY 

The solid white line referenced in the code is the road center line. The lines on the right (where they exist) are "fog lines", and they're purpose is to mark off the right edge and help drivers stay on the road in poor visibility.

Iride01 

Well there isn't any link or pic.

Even if I did know where you are talking about, I'm not going to say what I'd do on that particular road until I've been there, seen it and maybe even experienced it by riding it.

I've never said I ride every road that is out there. I have the luxury of picking where and when I ride. If I was in a area where I didn't have so many good choices of roads to ride then perhaps I might do differently. But it'd be foolish to speculate on such if I don't know the area.

livedarklions

Sorry, not sure what happened to the link:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8983...7i13312!8i6656


I ride this road precisely because of how good the shoulder is, and it's the shortest route to the seacoast from where I live in Nashua.

You can answer the question or not, but I was a bit surprised by your answer that you'd never. in essence, met a shoulder you liked, and wanted to get your thoughts on this particular road based on the visual.

BTW, it's been repaved since that pic, and those cracks were not difficult to ride over. I never had a problem with them in literally thousands of miles of fairly high-speed riding. They look worse in the photo than they did IRL.

Bmach

Here is the section ​​​​​​from the book
“solid white line marks the right edge of the roadway or separates lanes of traffic traveling in the same direction, including bicycle lanes. You can go in the same direction on both sides of this line (except the shoulder), but you should not cross it unless you need to avoid danger.”

You can be pulled over for failure to stay in marked lanes if you cross this line. So should we as vehicles even ride to the right of that line.

UniChris

No, white is not used in the center of the road, but only to divide lanes which move in the same direction.

Though IIRC on the alleged route of "Paul Revere's Ride" some of the centerline is red, white, and blue...