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Trek 620 on 700x48 Tires??? A $10 New School Frame Shows The Way

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Trek 620 on 700x48 Tires??? A $10 New School Frame Shows The Way

Old 04-10-21, 05:03 AM
  #26  
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Having done lots of 650b conversions, as well as cramming as large 700c tires onto old frames as I can, I’ve found that 650b x 42mm is doable pretty regularly, but 650b x 48 or 2” 29er is hen’s teeth territory. Also, there’s no real relationship between 650b conversion and low trail. Perhaps there’s been strands of low-trail orthodoxy following Prof. Heine, but at this point, it seems common knowledge that low trail (e.g., low 30s) is best if you’re carrying a significant front load; otherwise, not desirable.
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Old 04-10-21, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mhespenheide View Post
The link bikemig gave above can make the circumference calculations that you might be looking for. I'm not 100% sure if that addresses "flotation".
Yes, it is definitely a vague term but it seems like a vague concept. Perhaps comfort is what we are looking for. Or, is it a visual thing? I like the look of wide tires on a road bike and wide 700c are more appealing than wide 650b.
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Old 04-10-21, 07:20 AM
  #28  
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I am very impatiently waiting to see my Gugieficatizion waiting for me at my house in Lancaster, PA.



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Old 04-10-21, 08:04 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
I agree that a proper 650B setup would help me take advantage of the svelte 510's frame weight (remember, we're talking 25.5" / 65cm here) and flex. I'd have to put up with crummy braking, which I'm disinclined to do (and have been for a long while). Lucky that you can get 35mm tires on your 710! I'm 32mm max, or 30mm with the Tektro dual pivot calipers on there now.

As far as MTBs, that would be a decent idea if some critical things were met, chief among them being 1) they made it in a tall enough size 2) they didn't look absolutely hideous in their largest sizes 3) they didn't weigh a million pounds. I stick to touring bikes as they look great in all sizes, especially in the very tall sizes that I ride, and they normally don't weigh a ton. I'm going to have to peruse @JaccoW 's 66cm Miyata threads again to see how large a tire he has fit or could fit. I really may have to get one of those things over here...

There is also the (fun) consideration, with regard to 650Bs, that big tires on a big 700C wheel mean one can really roll over things a la "29er" MTB's. I dig that, and a super tall touring frame with large rubber just has this boss look to it. I dig that. Big likes big. I'm way too tall for exotic sports cars, but I fit in a big Lexus or '60s Cadillac just fine, and really really dig on the big land yachts. Stately, confident, powerful. I can rock that.
The Koga-Miyata Traveller is currently comfortably sitting on 40x622 tyres and I could probably fit 50mm ones in the front. Which actually sounds like fun. But if I were to go for supple lightweight tyres...

42

I keep coming back to the thought of trying 650B but one thing I have come to realize these past years is that the 650B rimbrake wheel is slowly disappearing.
I'm pretty sure the disc brake version will stay around for a while, at the very least because there have been a large amount of MTBs made with them, but silver rim brake rims? Those are disappearing.

And 42x622 is already pretty baloony when it comes to tyres.

And if you really want bigger, why not the 44-622 Renť Herse Snoqualmie Pass tires, the 45-622 Schwalbe G-One Allround Evolution line or the weird looking 42-622 Ultradynamico CAVA Race?

EDIT: I have dealt with tyres that just fitted in a frame and it always ended up in headaches. Because it's virtually never the front wheel that gets hit and goes out of alignment but always the more critical rear wheel. The Batavus Randonneur GL for example can fit 38-622 tyres with fenders but became impossible to ride once I hit a pothole. And I have seen tyres that ate straight through aluminum frames over a very short distance. Steel does a little bit better but not by much.

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Old 04-10-21, 12:29 PM
  #30  
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It’s a wonderful time to find a great range of tires 48mm wide and up, whether 650b/27.5” or 700c/29”. It’s just those darn old frames that are the limitation.
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Old 04-10-21, 01:29 PM
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Interesting, and you never know until you try I guess!

I wanted to race XC on my Cheltenham Pedersen and wound up getting Panaracer Smoke 45's to fit by indenting the chainstays with a steel bar and a hammer working over a wooden anvil of sorts (tree stump).




I had a Schwinn Broadway hybrid I liked riding, and one day tried putting 29x2.1's on the narrow factory rims, all went well!




My Huffy TR745 was my first aluminum mtb with 27.5" wheels, and I surprised myself by squeezing in 2.4's on i51mm fat-bike rims (taken from my Mongoose Hondo from K-mart).

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Old 04-10-21, 06:35 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Itís a wonderful time to find a great range of tires 48mm wide and up, whether 650b/27.5Ē or 700c/29Ē. Itís just those darn old frames that are the limitation.
Exactly. Add the stipulation of "make it tall" and it gets even worse as it takes out the early hybrids, ATBs, etc.

I rode the green Nashbar (a very short distance) to meet a potential buyer for it, and it confirmed yet again its superiority over my beloved Treks when traversing the chewed up streets--with it's Paselas and hearty wheels. Incredible. $10 frameset. So much smoother, rattles and sounds are muted. Nashbar's "60cm" version has a 155mm HT (and the "54cm" with a 135mm HT), so that's not happening (need 200-220mm). I need to find this magic in a big enough frame, but now must search the vastness that is the Approaching Vintage & Newer era for gems. As a whole 1990-2010 give or take was the Dark Ages for anything close to a 64cm frame. People topped out, by chickening out, at 62cm CTT. No compact geometry or anything. Ok, Cannondale had a few fly-by-night 66s, God bless them, but everybody else abandoned the segment.
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Old 04-12-21, 12:45 AM
  #33  
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Just for comedic relief, I built up my Medici, this time with new (to me) stem and bars and a 12-25T cassette that I thought was a 12-27? I don't know...

Anyways, 25mm tires on the gauntlet of the side street my apartment building is on. It's as if it says, rather immediately, "ARE YOU AWAKE?" Bad news: impacts are FELT, NOW. High level of kick, so that's not fun. Good news: The tires, wheels, and frame "stop" the vibration festival quite quickly. No "quivering." And then once on good roads, it's time to fly.

***********

So, in my (presently futile) search for a unicorn Big Tire But Not Disc Brakes Touring-ish bike, I keep coming across the same few JH articles on tire size and all of this, so I decide to have some calculator fun and look at both nominal and actual tire diameters to see how various larger (Soma Supple Vitesse EX) tires compare to my "33mm" Soma Supple Vitesse EX's with respect to tire volume.

So let's take, per JH calcs, but for me, a 33mm tire (nominal), the Soma SV EX. It's air volume will be "100%" and any size smaller or larger will work from that bogie.

28mm - 615mm^2 - 72% (just for kicks)
33mm - 855mm^2 - 100%
38mm - 1,134mm^2 - 133%
42mm - 1,385mm^2 - 162%
48mm - 1,809mm^2 - 212%

You can see that a 38mm tire struggles to attain (what I term) "escape velocity" with regard to appreciable increase in volume. 33% volume improvement is good/fine, but in my direct experience, didn't have me feeling it was that beneficial. 42mm tires have 62% more volume, so now we're cooking a bit. And of course, bumping to 48mm tires has us over double the air volume, and that is definitely felt, and for the (much) better.

So let's get Real World (TM) here. 30mm is my actual tire size for the 33s, and 45-46mm was my actual tire size for the 48s (sorta averaging 13mm internal and 16mm internal rims' results). I guestimate that 42s would measure 40mm, so now let's use 30mm tires as "100%":

30mm - 706mm^2 - 100%
40mm - 1,256mm^2 - 178%
46mm - 1,661mm^2 - 235%

Impressive "work" by the 42s IMO. Nearing or nearly double the volume! But then you have the sweet sweet siren song of well over 2x the volume with the 48s at a whopping 235%. This is why I am on a mission with those 48s, aside from the fact that I got them essentially new and for so cheap.

Next, I move to estimated tire pressures of a 42mm tire were I to run it. (F/R in PSI)

33mm (30mm) - 70/75
42mm (40mm) - ?/?
48mm (46mm) - 38/40 (or 40/40)

I calculated things using actual tire diameter proportion/relation to each other, but not volume, and ended up with:

42mm - 50/53

[if the 33mm size is "0" and the 48mm size is "100", then the 42mm size is, "62.5"]

That sounds nice. Sufficiently lower than the 33s, which is one of my goals. I then calculated pressures based on proportion/comparison of volume [33mm = 706, 48mm = 1,661, with 42mm's 1,256 being "57.777...."]
I got 52/55 PSI, which ends up being very close to the previous value/ratio/fuzzy math number [all the engineers are going to murder this industrial designer over here "Hey, guys, I liked and did well in math! It was a while ago, but please put your forks down!"]
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Old 04-12-21, 02:09 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
I got 52/55 PSI, which ends up being very close to the previous value/ratio/fuzzy math number [all the engineers are going to murder this industrial designer over here "Hey, guys, I liked and did well in math! It was a while ago, but please put your forks down!"]
I'm an Industrial Engineer, but the literal translation from Dutch would be more along the lines of 'Technical Business Administration'. So I'm more along the lines of "Perfection is the enemy of good enough".

When I test rode the 42x622 tyres on my girlfriend's commuter (which originally came with 28x622 tyres) I was really struck with how plush the ride was compared to the 38x622 Schwalbe Marathon Supreme's on my own bike. And that was compared to the tractor like Schwalbe Road Cruisers. So it's good to see the difference put into numbers.
I can certainly understand the appeal of 48mm tyres here.
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Old 04-12-21, 06:52 AM
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Just a quick note. Loving the 700x33 Soma Supple Vitesse SL on my 82 Trek 613. Paired with latex tubes it's a heavenly combination: forgiving and fast. Pumping up before a ride hasn't been a hassle. So if you get stuck with 42s max, don't discount the more supple varieties. Time will tell on durability, flats, etc.

Of course I'm comparing to my 700x25 Conti 4seasons on an aluminum/CF bike I sold last summer. Felt every seam in the concrete on that one. But it has me pondering whether I'll like my LeMond's 650x38s as much as I put it back together, after riding that wonderful combination.


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Old 04-12-21, 12:36 PM
  #36  
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this is fascinating....but if looking for plush ride without having to go to big big big, IMHO tubies should be in the discussion mix

I have seen huge differences in ride and handling rough (ish) by going from clincher to tubular (me 250lb)

First case 84 team miyata... went from 25mm bontrager something on ma40 rims to 25mm challenge elite tubular on mavic gel 330....amazing difference (mostly tire, but lighter rim also). I did just order a pair of 28mm gravel kings so that will be an interesting comparison

second case 85 Team miyata went from 28mm Conti GP5000 clincher to 30 mm vittoria Corsa Controls...... the Contis were great but the corsa controls are noticeably better

The gp5000 does com in a 32 so that may be of interest

and tubular cyclocross tires come in the pretty big sizes.

just something to throw into the discussion

Personally I don't see my self going over 32mm , but time could change that
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Old 04-12-21, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
this is fascinating....but if looking for plush ride without having to go to big big big, IMHO tubies should be in the discussion mix

I have seen huge differences in ride and handling rough (ish) by going from clincher to tubular (me 250lb)

First case 84 team miyata... went from 25mm bontrager something on ma40 rims to 25mm challenge elite tubular on mavic gel 330....amazing difference (mostly tire, but lighter rim also). I did just order a pair of 28mm gravel kings so that will be an interesting comparison

second case 85 Team miyata went from 28mm Conti GP5000 clincher to 30 mm vittoria Corsa Controls...... the Contis were great but the corsa controls are noticeably better

The gp5000 does com in a 32 so that may be of interest

and tubular cyclocross tires come in the pretty big sizes.

just something to throw into the discussion

Personally I don't see my self going over 32mm , but time could change that
I was part of the 32/33 max crowd, but I am just tired of getting bucked and kicked by garbage roads and expansion gaps. I've run plenty of truly great tires in the 23-28mm range and have enjoyed them. But I'm running 33s now, as stated, minimum on my 620, and those aren't enough. So tubulars, CX or road it doesn't matter, are not in the discussion, especially on a touring bike. Just about any decent tire feels epic on good roads, and it was fun to take the Medici out and have it run on those sections and feel fast, but it's becoming a dead end for me quickly.

I put 33mm-clad wheelset (Ultegra/CXP21) back on the 620 (taking off the other wheels with the 48s) and got it running. 33s look tiny, something I'd never thought I'd say. 65/77 F/R PSI over my crappy test street. I have a resonance/problem. The tall thin tubes jiggle, especially with a taller stem and longer bars etc. The Nashbar, with its 29mm "32mm" tires and heavier rims, still feels markedly better. Strong frames do not have to be harsh frames, and so with the Nashbar, its strong frame beautifully mutes the big and bad stuff, thus allowing the wheels and tires to do their jobs. It's not a jiggly mess whose vibrations compound upon each other. So my "problem" here, in trying to effectively mitigate garbage streets (that will never be paved again in spite of being in a city flush full of cash and high income earners..), is at a fundamental and structural level with the 620. And the 510, and other tall and jiggly frames I've had over the years. This is not a call for carbon. Part of the muting happens with weight, the other with material strength and inherent properties. Literally scaling up the Nashbar to fit me would be the solution. Double-butted aluminum that is robot welded, with a robot-welded chromoly unicrown fork, is the antithesis of exotic.

So I'll try and see, for research purposes of course, if I can test ride some new-era 700C big tire bikes (which are all, of course, disc) and see how those do. I still do not want discs, for all the reasons that people say, so my above thoughts are not a call for them either.
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Old 04-17-21, 12:39 AM
  #38  
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For the last four consecutive days (with today as a knee resting day) I treated myself to Rule #5 as a gut/heat check against my recent realizations and thoughts, via the Medici. 10, 16, 25, and 36 mile days, in that order. Had a blast, minus the 12-25T cassette's 25T big cog on some of Seattle's intense inclines (now remedied with an 11-28T cassette). Felt great to get some solid riding on the streets--no bike paths interrupted by street crossings, sharp roots, broken sections or pedestrians. A guy just wants some consistency after a while, just to put the head down and diesel it in the big ring. SRAM brake levers, Dura-Ace 7402 single pivot calipers, Kool Stop pads, and MA2 rims working in complete unity. A truly trustworthy bike, and a joy to ride.

Still, the call of a good 'gravel' or whatever frame/bike is present. I could "button down" the 620 or 510 with different cockpit setups (shorter height stems, quill conversions, compact bars, etc) or different wheelsets, but anything, IMO, not of vintage or vintage-inspired origin for the 510 would be anathema. The 'techy' 620 (in lug/frame appearance) could get away with it, but even then it seems out of character, especially given how at-home it looks presently. I would do it a disservice in greatly altering it from its present 'ideal,' methinks. So I have some more thinking to do...
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Old 04-25-21, 09:21 PM
  #39  
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In what seems like forever in mental years, I finally broke down and bought some 700x42s. It gets me out into the off-road stuff quickly, as well as serves as a data point as to tire volume and how good it feels to me. I am now officially an unsponsored Soma Supple Vitesse EX tire tester. After a busier day, I got to mounting the 42s onto the CXP21 rims I had. Per my above calculations, I have set the pressure at 50/53 PSI front and rear. I actually suited up to take the bike for a spin and...it began pouring rain.

So, we'll all have to deal with indoor photos until it dries up again. The 620 looks comfortable on them and there is ample vertical clearance for fenders as well as good lateral clearance. The tires measure 38mm wide and will stretch a little. I'm hoping 1-2mm so that they run a bit truer to size. Still, they do not compare to 48s in size and volume. Putting the wheels next to each other was pretty sobering in spite of the nominal 6mm width difference.

But first, a comparison...

700x48s @ 20 PSI vs. 700x33s at 70 PSI:


Then 700x48s @ 20PSI vs. 700x42s @ 50 PSI:


The 48s are not joking around here. Width versus volume, no?

Anyway, let's see how these 42s look on the 620:


Probably should have been on here all along!


Plenty of room in all directions.


I think my rear wheel's dish is a touch off as there is more lateral room on the other side. Still, this doesn't bother me.


Yup. Maybe I'll re-dish...even if I thought I checked it initially when truing and tensioning these wheels after I bought them (used).


This is a good 10mm give or take. All the fender room. Even true 42s, one could still likely get (slender) fenders to work. The 620: always impressing. Monday should dry out at least at the halfway point, or so I hope. I'll test ride then.
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Old 04-27-21, 01:14 AM
  #40  
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Well, folks, I turned my 620 into a Lexus.... My previously skeptical self (for good reason) with regard to big tires, their aesthetic, and their benefits, has been disproven. Crazy. Sure, big tires do look big in relation to traditional steel tube diameters (thus my aesthetic point/concern remains consistent), but finally, a big tire works for ol' Riddle!

As with these Somas, there is an initial coating/covering/something that must be shed or worn off in the course of riding. When they are new, the white-ish substance beads up and kind of gets everywhere it seems. On the road, it's basically a rubber lint roller for the first quarter to half a mile, slinging everything into your frame's tubes and to the sides. Kinda weird, kinda funny. That wears off soon enough so that you can get to the business of concentrating on the ride, if things haven't been made obvious to one's self already. In the case of the 620 and these 42mm tires, the case was made almost immediately, and it was GOOD.

I looped around the top of my neighborhood before descending to loop around part of the base of the hill it was on, figuring I'd run some normal "extended loop" roads and pathways to get an even better idea of things. No need to worry, riding that route only confirmed what the first quarter mile had already told me.

Out of the saddle climbing? No diminished performance.
Out of the saddle accelerating (big and small ring, various speeds)? No diminished performance.
Steering feel? Gained some wheel flop.
Straight line handling? Superb, better than before.
Cruising speed? Same gears, no slower.
"Quivering" upon medium to heavier road imperfections? Gone. I aimed for those road imperfections and was largely unaffected by them.
Comfort over 33s? Leagues better. Those 33s might as well have been 23s, IMO. I pretty much can't believe this was/is happening, but as a favorite YouTuber says, "...but I got to. I'm looking right at it." (or in my case, I'm feeling it as I ride) This is even with my quite-firm all-black Prologo saddle, which is not to be underestimated.

The cushion of air is real. The 47cm chain stays make it even better. I looked down at the rear tire multiple times over the ride and saw, in very real time, the deformation of the tire over small and medium (at the very least) road variances. That, ladies and gentlemen, is your suspension. The rest of the Suspension or Comfort Ecosystem is still important, but tires, like one's spring/shock combo, do a ton of work, and this was enumerated to me with the subtlety of a two-by-four.

I do really like my Medici, and it is worthy of many a good component and certainly a repaint. But...with these tires, the 620 just cemented its position as The Bike To Rule Them All. I'll get to gravel/off-road riding soon enough, but for road riding, I'm at Grail Level, which means any other kind of riding/capability is gravy. What a frame, and what a pair of tires!



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Old 04-27-21, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
Well, folks, I turned my 620 into a Lexus.... My previously skeptical self (for good reason) with regard to big tires, their aesthetic, and their benefits, has been disproven. Crazy. Sure, big tires do look big in relation to traditional steel tube diameters (thus my aesthetic point/concern remains consistent), but finally, a big tire works for ol' Riddle!

As with these Somas, there is an initial coating/covering/something that must be shed or worn off in the course of riding. When they are new, the white-ish substance beads up and kind of gets everywhere it seems. On the road, it's basically a rubber lint roller for the first quarter to half a mile, slinging everything into your frame's tubes and to the sides. Kinda weird, kinda funny. That wears off soon enough so that you can get to the business of concentrating on the ride, if things haven't been made obvious to one's self already. In the case of the 620 and these 42mm tires, the case was made almost immediately, and it was GOOD.

I looped around the top of my neighborhood before descending to loop around part of the base of the hill it was on, figuring I'd run some normal "extended loop" roads and pathways to get an even better idea of things. No need to worry, riding that route only confirmed what the first quarter mile had already told me.

Out of the saddle climbing? No diminished performance.
Out of the saddle accelerating (big and small ring, various speeds)? No diminished performance.
Steering feel? Gained some wheel flop.
Straight line handling? Superb, better than before.
Cruising speed? Same gears, no slower.
"Quivering" upon medium to heavier road imperfections? Gone. I aimed for those road imperfections and was largely unaffected by them.
Comfort over 33s? Leagues better. Those 33s might as well have been 23s, IMO. I pretty much can't believe this was/is happening, but as a favorite YouTuber says, "...but I got to. I'm looking right at it." (or in my case, I'm feeling it as I ride) This is even with my quite-firm all-black Prologo saddle, which is not to be underestimated.

The cushion of air is real. The 47cm chain stays make it even better. I looked down at the rear tire multiple times over the ride and saw, in very real time, the deformation of the tire over small and medium (at the very least) road variances. That, ladies and gentlemen, is your suspension. The rest of the Suspension or Comfort Ecosystem is still important, but tires, like one's spring/shock combo, do a ton of work, and this was enumerated to me with the subtlety of a two-by-four.

I do really like my Medici, and it is worthy of many a good component and certainly a repaint. But...with these tires, the 620 just cemented its position as The Bike To Rule Them All. I'll get to gravel/off-road riding soon enough, but for road riding, I'm at Grail Level, which means any other kind of riding/capability is gravy. What a frame, and what a pair of tires!
I've always liked that bike

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Old 05-28-21, 04:03 PM
  #42  
RiddleOfSteel
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It feels like eleventy billion months since I last left off here, but much has happed since then. Much mental energy has gone into sorting out just what kind of bike I want to have, what components I want to have on it, and how much I want to spend (or not) to get there. @ctak has been a great friend as we lob a million ideas back and forth regarding our experiences, theories, and potential plans for our bikes. We are both of the very strong mindset that Trek's x20 bikes are incredible, especially when working from the frameset up.

In light of the Gravelly Goo & Big Tires Too trend sucking up all available bikes and frames, especially for us aspiring giraffes--to say nothing of "If I choose one, will I like it?"--I have reconsidered my options and this 620 many times. The 620 is a known and good quantity. Gravel/adventure framesets are $1050-1600. A quality custom frameset is ~$1800 at minimum if you can wait. If you can find a Black Mountain Monstercross in frameset or complete, it's in between everything. The 620, as a frameset, was ~$240. And now having proven it can hold tires as large as the early crop of gravel bikes, along with many in the adventure, CX, and CX-gravel hybrids, there is a basis for an apples to apples comparison (vintage vs. modern).

My primary goal for the 620 has settled upon on-city-tarmac supremacy. The long wheelbase and large supple tires take on the rough and fractured pavement in and around the city core. Whereas any 23mm-tired bike feels great on smooth country roads, it takes, now, in my mind, much larger tires to deal with crummy surfaces and not be bothered by them. [As an aside, 33mm tires (that measure 29-30mm) look incredibly slender now, and 65/70 F/R PSI levels are still a bit much for rough roads around here.] The secondary goal is for a bit of fun: light weight. Not full-on "tuning" (ugh) or spending a grand on drillium'ed titanium bolts and skewers, but as always, hunting for good deals on known quality, available, lighter components. Many light components also happen to be black anodized or painted, and this factor was something that has necessitated much thought on as well. If I go down this path of weight reduction, it will mean changing the aesthetic composition of this bike considerably. The hilarity of having a 23.x lb touring bike warms my heart--the hilarity and blasphemous nature of it all! (alas, I am no stranger to this). The third goal is gravel competency, which it should do well at as-is, but more will be learned once I get out there.

One Bike To Rule Them All. A distillation of components, experience, riding style, and capable chassis into one Super 620. One part challenger to the new school, another part fun, yet another part an aesthetic challenge, and lastly a light-weight-reasonably challenge. Oh, and better braking, too. I love the look of cantis and they perform well, but...I'm here to stop, and more quickly, please! So this Super 620 will be a bit of rolling R&D, and I'm happy with that!

**********

With that being said, I have begun the process of turn silver components into black components. Weighing of components has also commenced and there have been many gains, er, losses. The selling (and still attempts at selling) various components and framesets allows 'funding' of this. Yes, one could have a fully-modernized bar-end shifting 3x10 geared 620 for $500-600 or a less if you really played things right. A la carte builds are almost never cheaper than "package deals" but then, choosing specific parts for the reasons that we do is the reason we work from a bare frameset in the first place. This 620 is not a $500 build. But it's also not a $3000-5000 new gravel build. And given my (and ctak's) research, the 620 will weigh less than a steel gravel bike, easily, while being more or less equal to an aluminum example. And I'll be using a steel fork instead of carbon. And...well, a lot of stuff.

So, if some of you remember my Olympic-level mental hand-wringing over the Medici and Innicycle headset use, the Medici will be put up for sale, and its Innicycle (thanks, @joejack951 for this product!) headset idea lives on in the 620!


This is a gorgeous piece! It's even going on a same-era Trek.


There is a lot of great detailing on this headset, which I can expand upon if any of you would like. It weighed in at 241g, just a gram above the claimed 240g weight. Awesome.


One could get Shimano Ultegra R8000 brake calipers, or they could get these. Same money, different application. Not cheap, but these TRP CX 8.4s are (also) gorgeous, and as mimi-Vs, they work with road-style brake levers (Campy and SRAM officially).


The automotive design major (and sleek form lover) in me just digs these! Look at them!


Cool hardware here, complete with titanium mounting bolts. The noodles have barrel adjusters to work cable tension/take up. So far, the one I've installed on the back doesn't do anything. That's a bummer, but it's not even an issue for me--most V-brakes don't have those anyways, so this is a (potential) bonus. I'll fiddle around with it some more to see if I can get it to work.
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Old 05-28-21, 04:16 PM
  #43  
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I was only able to get the TRPs installed on the rear as, of course, the rear canti post spacing was wide enough to accommodate modern canti and V-brake components. Do they work? VERILY. Do you want essentially hydraulic disc brake lever effort and power? Because that's what you're going to get. Through four feet of cable housing. Unreal. Immense stopping power now, with greatly reduced effort. I can finally lock up the back wheel. When I get the fronts on, this thing is going to STOP. And NOW. I also won't have the honest annoyance of setting cantis up any more. Love the look, love the history, love the tire and fender clearance, but they are fidgety!



The arms splay slightly, even with 77mm spacing (80mm is a general target, but these will need more to be more vertical). I bought new (to me) DT Swiss wheels and their 22.7mm external width (vs 19.7mm of the CXP21s) really splayed the arms. Not a great look.


Red dots are the current canti spacing, and green the "new" spacing at 82mm or so. That centerline will be outboard of the fork blades' centerline, which will be a different look for sure. I think the TRP's beauty will be the equivalent of Obi Wan's "These are not the droids you're looking for" hand wave.


More of the "honest reality" here in bringing "the fight" (of a vintage frameset) to modern bikes. Posts will need to drop a few mm.


Only a little narrow!
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Old 05-28-21, 04:36 PM
  #44  
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Fast forward some more and we have the additions of two more Specialized Ribcage II bottle cages joining the single one I had. Drops 75g over the silver Sunlites. I have long used the Ribcage cages to denote my top-flight bike, so it is more than fitting that a top-flight frame be given these. I picked up a used carbon seatpost (that actually weighs a little more than my old Trek alloy one...) as well as ported over the 3TTT stem and stem conversion from the Medici (for fit setup purposes). Carbon Zipp bars drop a ton of weight (not cheap, naturally) and eliminate a ton of road buzz. The tops angle back slightly a la Nitto Noodle, which I really like. The aforementioned used DT Swiss R23 Spline (what an ugly name!) wheelset buy drops another 300g out of the wheelset weight, and restores some springiness when accelerating and climbing out of the saddle. Tire width bumps to about 39.5mm on these 22.7mm wide (external) rims, edging closer to that nominal 700x42 size labeling. I switch to a 7g heavier but much more comfortable black/white Prologo Scratch Pro saddle as well. Lighter Brooks bar tape (vs the other black tapes I had to choose from), yes really! Changing from bar-ends to DT shifters netted another 159g drop.

So as it sits now, I'm at a hair under 23.5 lbs. Incredible! Yes, I am still a bit heavier than ctak's 24" '85 720, but that's to be expected with a larger and thicker gauge tubeset as a starting point. It's perfect for me, so I'm fine. Buying back my old Dura-Ace WH-7850s (C24 predecessor) would drop another 175g, and a full drivetrain change to a 2x10 (50/34 up front and 11-36 out back) could net me another 200g or more. Latex or light weight inner tubes? Another 70-80g. I know it seems silly to have a large touring bike that weighs closer to 10kg or under 23 lbs, but I'm up for it so long as I don't burn my wallet down (and sell off the other parts to offset the costs). 23.5 lbs feels good, and "light" when I pick it up. I love the aesthetic balance of a 3x10 setup, so I am happy to leave it for now. One step at a time for changes, you know?

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Old 05-28-21, 04:45 PM
  #45  
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Very nice. I assume the innicycle goes on when the fork returns from having the posts relocated?

Looks like itíll be a blast to ride!
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Old 05-28-21, 05:09 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Sir_Name View Post
Very nice. I assume the innicycle goes on when the fork returns from having the posts relocated?

Looks like itíll be a blast to ride!
Correct! I've been (also) pouring over powder coat colors as four new posts means four places of a lot of missing paint. I've done a lot of work to touch up and maintain the blue's 'unity', but there is a lot of touch-up on this, and I don't really want to slather a whole tube of touch-up paint (that aaalllmost matches). More time and money (including new decals...), so that's on the slow train of yes/no decisions. I'm excited about the Innicycle as it will greatly contribute to cleaning up the front end among other things. Definitely a crown jewel type component, so maybe I'll save it for after powder coating (of which I am leaning towards a metallic candy red--even ordered swatches!).
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Old 05-28-21, 05:47 PM
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24" Panasonic Mountain Cat

A super-sized mountain bike from the 80s might meet your needs. This 1989 24" MC-



2500 was on the low-end of Panasonic's lineup, but the upper echelon, 7500, 6500, etc also came this big. Fat, 26" road slicks & a drop bar conversion might smooth out the poor pavement for much, much less.

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Old 05-28-21, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
c) Go custom? Pretty much all big-tire 700C touring bikes are disc only, and I am for proper comfort, which includes that sweet flex of a non-disc fork.
Riv is still making all their bikes with rim brakes and large 700c tire clearance, yeah?
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Old 05-29-21, 12:57 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by OutnBack View Post
A super-sized mountain bike from the 80s might meet your needs. This 1989 24" MC-



2500 was on the low-end of Panasonic's lineup, but the upper echelon, 7500, 6500, etc also came this big. Fat, 26" road slicks & a drop bar conversion might smooth out the poor pavement for much, much less.
I appreciate the suggestion, but I have long held the mindset that the largest vintage MTBs are, to be diplomatic, unattractive to me. By a considerable margin. Smaller sizes look sweet. As such, adding to that unicrown forks and very heavy framesets, not to mention never being tall enough to run sleek stem/bars, it's simply not an option. To be clear, this is not a "help me figure out which frameset/bike to buy," but rather a chronology of process. A 1985 Trek 620 is a truly gifted frameset saddled by its original componentry. Many vintage frames are, my 1981 Fuji S12-S LTD being the latest example. It's a great frameset that is brought to full potential with mid-to-upper-level (modern) componentry. Tons of fun.

Originally Posted by polymorphself View Post
Riv is still making all their bikes with rim brakes and large 700c tire clearance, yeah?
They are, but unfortunately, one has to actually look at them. :/ Their Roadeo is the only frameset I'd consider as the proportions are very nice, but the tire clearance at the 700C size is not what this (MUCH cheaper) 620 frameset provides. The Roadini is the next best solution (relatively), but it's proportions are not there for me. Everything else is decidedly unattractive. I'd spec a Roadeo with no head tube extension as they truly look awful and are, frankly, unnecessary. My 620 beautifully proportioned, as are many vintage bikes. I do like sloping top tubes, but it is a balancing act in the larger sizes I have found, and I have done considerable looking.
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Old 05-29-21, 06:45 AM
  #50  
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The proportions thing is real, especially for taller riders. For some, the tall head tube just throws off the look of the bike. It's probably why a lot of tall riders are on the lookout for a Cannondale. The OS tubing takes care of that "odd" look. Just as STI's and modern components eventually made their way into this fabulous forum, we are now entering a crossroads where some of the newer frame technologies are becoming more available at a price point that becomes very attractive. As seen above, looking to achieve certain things can become complicated, and expensive, and sometimes not possible. Riddle mentioned it briefly, but it has flown under the radar what was available for $10. Obviously, that is an extremely fortunate example, but like I said, crossroads.
I recently picked up a prime example of this (pickup scheduled). I wasn't in the market, but we all know how that goes. I didn't believe the picture and the owner had a chuckle as he shared my same thoughts. This isn't your dads 62cm proportioned bike. It looks like a 58cm. Never in a million years did I think I would own a Surly, but here we are, at a price point cheaper than a Walmart bike. 32c here I come. Just like the STI's, at some point you just can't say no. And yes - I'm crossing my fingers that the seatpost is the Dura Ace aero


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