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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Bitten by Tubeless

Old 09-01-21, 07:10 AM
  #201  
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Until they develop a tubeless system that either doesn’t require sealant or one where you NEVER have to add sealant I have no interest. Would you buy tires for your car that you had to add sealant every 4 months?…I like to be able to install my own tired, tubeless is just too complicated.
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Old 09-01-21, 07:18 AM
  #202  
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Originally Posted by btographer View Post
Would you buy tires for your car that you had to add sealant every 4 months?
Not an apt comparison. Would you buy tires, for your car, with tubes that had to be patched or replaced a couple times per month?
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Old 09-01-21, 07:28 AM
  #203  
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Originally Posted by btographer View Post
Until they develop a tubeless system that either doesn’t require sealant or one where you NEVER have to add sealant I have no interest. Would you buy tires for your car that you had to add sealant every 4 months?…I like to be able to install my own tired, tubeless is just too complicated.
It is a less than elegant solution compared to car tires.
But with car tires when you get a flat you have to use a spare wheel that you carry around in the car. And most everyone cant easily change tires at home.

So if we went the car tire route in terms of tolerances and fitting, We would all need to carry a 3rd wheel with us and bring our bikes in to the shop for a flat. Also, car tires are significantly tougher so they flat less often. We could do that with bike tires, but then everyone would be riding around with some awful tire that is the spawn of a Schwalbe Marathon and a Conti Gatorskin.

There are benefits and drawbacks to both.
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Old 09-01-21, 07:34 AM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Not an apt comparison. Would you buy tires, for your car, with tubes that had to be patched or replaced a couple times per month?
I ride between 4-5K miles a year and flat maybe 2X. What is the most common cause of your many flats?
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Old 09-01-21, 07:37 AM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by btographer View Post
I ride between 4-5K miles a year and flat maybe 2X.
Would you buy car tires with tubes that needed to be patched or replaced twice every 4-5k miles?

Originally Posted by btographer View Post
What is the most common cause of your many flats?
Small, sharp stuff.
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Old 09-01-21, 07:40 AM
  #206  
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Originally Posted by btographer View Post
Until they develop a tubeless system that either doesn’t require sealant or one where you NEVER have to add sealant I have no interest. Would you buy tires for your car that you had to add sealant every 4 months?…I like to be able to install my own tired, tubeless is just too complicated.
Adding sealant every two months is a pretty straightforward operation as long as you have only a few wheelsets which you regularly ride.

Lot of faff if you have a N+many situation.
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Old 09-01-21, 07:47 AM
  #207  
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Originally Posted by btographer View Post
Until they develop a tubeless system that either doesn’t require sealant or one where you NEVER have to add sealant I have no interest. Would you buy tires for your car that you had to add sealant every 4 months?…I like to be able to install my own tired, tubeless is just too complicated.
I have ridden tubeless without sealant. In fact I just installed new Hutchinson Fusion5 All Season tires on my Campagnolo Shamal wheels. The front holds air really well and the rear loses about 20 psi after 24 hours. I may decide to install sealant in the rear tire and leave the front as is. Of course, without sealant I lose some flat protection, but I seldom flat anyway even though I have often ridden without in the past. My tires can be installed without using tire levers and inflated With an ordinary track pump. Takes less time than installing a tubed tire because I don't have to fiddle with getting the tube inside the tire

Last edited by alcjphil; 09-01-21 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 09-01-21, 08:17 AM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by Branko D View Post
Adding sealant every two months is a pretty straightforward operation as long as you have only a few wheelsets which you regularly ride.

Lot of faff if you have a N+many situation.
Nice to get a NON-SARCASTIC, VERY helpful response, will strongly consider giving tubeless another try at least on my gravel bike.
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Old 09-01-21, 08:33 AM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Would you buy car tires with tubes that needed to be patched or replaced twice every 4-5k miles?



Small, sharp stuff.
Purr More Hiss Less…
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Old 09-01-21, 08:43 AM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
It is a less than elegant solution compared to car tires.
But with car tires when you get a flat you have to use a spare wheel that you carry around in the car. And most everyone cant easily change tires at home.

So if we went the car tire route in terms of tolerances and fitting, We would all need to carry a 3rd wheel with us and bring our bikes in to the shop for a flat. Also, car tires are significantly tougher so they flat less often. We could do that with bike tires, but then everyone would be riding around with some awful tire that is the spawn of a Schwalbe Marathon and a Conti Gatorskin.

There are benefits and drawbacks to both.
The real difference between car tyres and road bike tyres is that car tyres are robust enough to not get punctures all the time. In road bikes, TL is used as an excuse to run TT like tyres all the time even if the sealant isnt all that reliable, like it also isnt in car tyres.
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Old 09-01-21, 09:59 AM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
I have ridden tubeless without sealant. In fact I just installed new Hutchinson Fusion5 All Season tires on my Campagnolo Shamal wheels. The front holds air really well and the rear loses about 20 psi after 24 hours. I may decide to install sealant in the rear tire and leave the front as is. Of course, without sealant I lose some flat protection, but I seldom flat anyway even though I have often ridden without in the past. My tires can be installed without using tire levers and inflated With an ordinary track pump. Takes less time than installing a tubed tire because I don't have to fiddle with getting the tube inside the tire
Does not using sealant increase the possibility of the tire coming off the rim while cornering, or is the sole purpose of sealant to protect from road hazard and pinch flats?
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Old 09-01-21, 10:08 AM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by btographer View Post
Does not using sealant increase the possibility of the tire coming off the rim while cornering,
Nope.

Originally Posted by btographer View Post
is the sole purpose of sealant to protect from road hazard and pinch flats?
... and to help seal the tire and wheel. They aren't perfect interfaces and the sealant helps seal it all up. So the sole purpose of sealant is to seal.
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Old 09-01-21, 10:17 AM
  #213  
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In automotive applications there are such a thing as bead sealant, even if liquid sealant, like in bikes are not used. Conceivably such a bead sealer could be used in a bike wheel, is you want an air tight bike wheel without liquid latex in it.

https://www.rematiptop.com/products/...-products.html
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Old 09-01-21, 10:46 AM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by btographer View Post
Purr More Hiss Less…
You're the one that started with the car tire comparison - is my question to you any different?
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Old 09-01-21, 10:51 AM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Not an apt comparison. Would you buy tires, for your car, with tubes that had to be patched or replaced a couple times per month?
Or... would you trust car tires that were 75 bucks each to last?
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Old 09-01-21, 10:54 AM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by btographer View Post
Nice to get a NON-SARCASTIC, VERY helpful response...
It's not easy to continually address the strong, negative opinions of people that have little-to-no practical experience and to do so with a smile. Maybe *you* should try a different tack when you're clearly out of you element?
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Old 09-01-21, 10:55 AM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
You're the one that started with the car tire comparison - is my question to you any different?
Point taken. I want to try tubeless again at some point and was interested in learning the benefits vs extra work.
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Old 09-01-21, 11:03 AM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by btographer View Post
Point taken. I want to try tubeless again at some point and was interested in learning the benefits vs extra work.
I'm a big believer in tubeless - for me, it requires much less work and it allows me to (generally) pick and choose where and when to do the work. That said, if you're really getting one or two punctures per 5k miles, I wouldn't bother - I'd stick with tubes.
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Old 09-01-21, 12:51 PM
  #219  
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A tubeless fail experience...

4 miles into my ride last Sunday morning, I hit something that slashed the sidewall of my rear Conti GP50KTL. It went flat pretty quickly. I pulled the wheel off the bike, and tried rolling the tire around on its side to get sealant to the site of the cut, and hit it with a small shot of CO2. Nope - it wouldn't seal. I pried the bead off to pop in a tube without an issue, and noticed that there wasn't any liquid sealant left in the tire, despite a recent 20ml top-off. I spent about 15 minutes trying to get the nut on the tubeless stem to budge, and it just wouldn't. When I reached my limit for how much pain I would tolerate in my fingertips trying to turn that nut, I called an Uber for a ride home.

Inspecting the tire the next day, I found a pretty clean 1/2" long cut perpendicular to the bead. I reassembled the tire with a fresh load of sealant, but it just wouldn't seal. I pulled it apart again, and threw the tire in the trash. Maybe I could have patched the tire from the inside, or booted it and run a tube, but I choose to just get a new tire.

This wasn't really a failure of the tire. I wouldn't expect that a tubed tire to have survived the same slice, either. It was a failure of the tubeless system...or my lack of carrying pliers (not something I've ever carried)...or me ignorantly tightening the valve stem nut too tight.

This is the second time I've had a sidewall slash issue cause a flat with the GP5KTL. Maybe it's time to try a different tire.
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Old 09-01-21, 01:01 PM
  #220  
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I like the 5K tubed… but I’ve given up on them tubeless.
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Old 09-01-21, 03:12 PM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
A tubeless fail experience...

4 miles into my ride last Sunday morning, I hit something that slashed the sidewall of my rear Conti GP50KTL. It went flat pretty quickly. I pulled the wheel off the bike, and tried rolling the tire around on its side to get sealant to the site of the cut, and hit it with a small shot of CO2. Nope - it wouldn't seal. I pried the bead off to pop in a tube without an issue, and noticed that there wasn't any liquid sealant left in the tire, despite a recent 20ml top-off. I spent about 15 minutes trying to get the nut on the tubeless stem to budge, and it just wouldn't. When I reached my limit for how much pain I would tolerate in my fingertips trying to turn that nut, I called an Uber for a ride home.

Inspecting the tire the next day, I found a pretty clean 1/2" long cut perpendicular to the bead. I reassembled the tire with a fresh load of sealant, but it just wouldn't seal. I pulled it apart again, and threw the tire in the trash. Maybe I could have patched the tire from the inside, or booted it and run a tube, but I choose to just get a new tire.

This wasn't really a failure of the tire. I wouldn't expect that a tubed tire to have survived the same slice, either. It was a failure of the tubeless system...or my lack of carrying pliers (not something I've ever carried)...or me ignorantly tightening the valve stem nut too tight.

This is the second time I've had a sidewall slash issue cause a flat with the GP5KTL. Maybe it's time to try a different tire.
IMHO - the GP5k isn't really a very good tire. It just cuts too easily. The nature of tubeless makes those cuts feel even more catastrophic - even though as you say a tubed version will suffer the same fate.

I really am starting to feel that the GP5k will be to Conti what the ProRace3 was to Michelin.
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Old 09-01-21, 03:20 PM
  #222  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
A tubeless fail experience...

4 miles into my ride last Sunday morning, I hit something that slashed the sidewall of my rear Conti GP50KTL. It went flat pretty quickly. I pulled the wheel off the bike, and tried rolling the tire around on its side to get sealant to the site of the cut, and hit it with a small shot of CO2. Nope - it wouldn't seal. I pried the bead off to pop in a tube without an issue, and noticed that there wasn't any liquid sealant left in the tire, despite a recent 20ml top-off. I spent about 15 minutes trying to get the nut on the tubeless stem to budge, and it just wouldn't. When I reached my limit for how much pain I would tolerate in my fingertips trying to turn that nut, I called an Uber for a ride home.

Inspecting the tire the next day, I found a pretty clean 1/2" long cut perpendicular to the bead. I reassembled the tire with a fresh load of sealant, but it just wouldn't seal. I pulled it apart again, and threw the tire in the trash. Maybe I could have patched the tire from the inside, or booted it and run a tube, but I choose to just get a new tire.

This wasn't really a failure of the tire. I wouldn't expect that a tubed tire to have survived the same slice, either. It was a failure of the tubeless system...or my lack of carrying pliers (not something I've ever carried)...or me ignorantly tightening the valve stem nut too tight.

This is the second time I've had a sidewall slash issue cause a flat with the GP5KTL. Maybe it's time to try a different tire.
You don't carry any kind of plugs? No way I would try to inflated a sidewall tear like that without stuffing at least a few dynaplugs in there
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Old 09-01-21, 03:21 PM
  #223  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
IMHO - the GP5k isn't really a very good tire. It just cuts too easily. The nature of tubeless makes those cuts feel even more catastrophic - even though as you say a tubed version will suffer the same fate.

I really am starting to feel that the GP5k will be to Conti what the ProRace3 was to Michelin.
Are the Pirelli P-Zero Race still your tubeless of choice? If so, how has the durability been for you.
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Old 09-01-21, 03:24 PM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
You don't carry any kind of plugs? No way I would try to inflated a sidewall tear like that without stuffing at least a few dynaplugs in there
I carry Stan's darts on my MTB, but I haven't been carrying anything for my road bikes. Lesson learned.
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Old 09-01-21, 03:26 PM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
IMHO - the GP5k isn't really a very good tire. It just cuts too easily. The nature of tubeless makes those cuts feel even more catastrophic - even though as you say a tubed version will suffer the same fate.

I really am starting to feel that the GP5k will be to Conti what the ProRace3 was to Michelin.
Mind enlightening us?
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