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Would You Ride Tires You Can't Remove on the Road?

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Would You Ride Tires You Can't Remove on the Road?

Old 09-26-21, 03:43 PM
  #26  
shelbyfv
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If you are satisfied you've given it a good try, move on to a different tire. I wouldn't ride a combo I couldn't fix on the road. IMO, nobody should but here on BF we've had bizarre discussions about even that.
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Old 09-26-21, 04:35 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by argulator View Post
The problem really isn't mounting them, that's easy enough with a tire jack. It's removing. You just can't break the bead once the tire's seated. Guess I'll try to sell them and put some on that can be more easily removed.
Learn how to break the bead - with gloves, you shouldn't have any problems (without gloves, you'll probably get some wicked blisters).

Stand the wheel in front of you, use your upper body weight and grip/twist the tire carcass away from you, one hand at a time, like you're rolling up a newspaper. The bead closest to you will pull away, in to the middle of the rim bed. If it doesn't break within a 5-10 seconds, try breaking it at a different spot.
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Old 09-26-21, 06:45 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by argulator View Post
It wasn't. Couldn't get them off with 3 sets of vise grips. Gotta have a bench vise🙂
omg this gets worse. so vice grips & bench vice? what, no flat head screw drivers? but seriously, no I wouldn't ride on tires I couldn't remove roasdside. but now the question is, what tires to get
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Old 09-26-21, 06:54 PM
  #29  
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No.
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Old 09-26-21, 07:13 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by kahn View Post
I think it was said that the tires are hard to impossible to get off and the rider has a re-mounting tool. Does that tool also make it easier to remove?
Yes, that's the whole point of a bead jack.
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Old 09-26-21, 07:28 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Yes, that's the whole point of a bead jack.
The problem is breaking the bead-lock, not getting the tire over the edge of the rim (whether off or on); a bead jack isn't going to help with that.
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Old 09-26-21, 07:33 PM
  #32  
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I picked up a 2022 Caledonia-5 in August with the same tires and DT Swiss 1800 wheels. After 3 flats from in the first few hundred miles, I converted to tubeless. I didn't have any problems breaking the bead while replacing tubes.

I had no problems breaking the bead when I removed the tube and installed the (included with bike) tubeless valves. It was fun watching sealant spew out of the holes as I inflated the tires after conversion. All holes sealed within seconds.

In the past three weeks and 500-600 miles, I would have had four more flats. All but one sealed almost immediately. I picked up a nail that took about a minute to seal as it spewed sealant all over my bike. I aired up and continued on. I carry a tube just in case, but I just added a bacon strip repair kit for some more insurance.

I'm now a big fan of tubeless tires.

Not sure what it is about these Vittoria Rubinos. I put over 4000 miles riding my Specialized Sirrus hybrid the same routes I ride now and only had swap tubes a couple times.
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Old 09-26-21, 08:04 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Bici Veloce View Post
I picked up a 2022 Caledonia-5 in August with the same tires and DT Swiss 1800 wheels. After 3 flats from in the first few hundred miles, I converted to tubeless. I didn't have any problems breaking the bead while replacing tubes.
Maybe a difference between the wheels. Mine has the Reserve Wheels.
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Old 09-26-21, 09:15 PM
  #34  
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No. I wouldn't want to get stranded in the middle of nowhere.
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Old 09-26-21, 10:12 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by argulator View Post
Vittoria
I guessed this before I opened the thread.

I have a pair of graphenes on a bike that were the hardest tires to (un)mount of any I have ever encountered (with the exception of the time I blew one off the rim). My hands ached for days after. I live in fear of getting a flat, so my rides on this have all been within six miles of home (which will be bad enough) and out of cell phone range. The tires are almost new as a consequence.

If yours have 1500 miles on them, declare victory, saw them off, and replace with Rene Herse (widest you can cram into your frame and fork). They are tight but not insanely so.

For tubeless, if they go on too easily, they come off too easily.
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Old 09-26-21, 10:13 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Keep practicing taking the tires off and reinstalling them in the comfort of your living room until it is second-nature. Then they won't phase you when you flat in the rain.

I don't ride any tires on the road that I couldn't dismount by hand. A lot of people wouldn't believe theirs could be, until I show them. I guess that's my party trick.
You dismount by hand? No tire irons? Care to share this party trick? Video, perhaps?
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Old 09-26-21, 11:18 PM
  #37  
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Had a new bike several years ago which came with Vittoria 23C tires. Rode many miles with zero flats so took it on a century and 25 miles from the finish a rear flat. Took 10 minutes of prying to get that tough sucker off. Put in a new tube and the tire was so tight, it was impossible to do it without tire levers. Inflated it and pinched the tube with the levers. Another struggle to get the tire off and patched the tube. Still couldn’t get the tire back on with out the levers and you guessed it, pinched it again - another hole. Off the tire came and 45 minutes later with more cursing and struggling, back on the road with zero patches left.

When I got home the tires came off and into the garbage. The new tires were never a problem. My recommendation is get rid of your problematic tires so you never have to suffer like I did.
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Old 09-26-21, 11:38 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by argulator View Post
It wasn't. Couldn't get them off with 3 sets of vise grips. Gotta have a bench vise🙂
woah.. different tires...
or different wheels...
ride on...
Yuri
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Old 09-27-21, 12:39 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by argulator View Post
Picked up a Cervelo Caledonia-5, which has almost new tubeless-ready Reserve wheels and Vittoria Rubino pro tires, which currently have tubes in them. Problem is the tires are nearly impossible to get off the rim. Nearly impossible unless you have a bench vise handy, then it's just really difficult. Roadside, not a chance.

I could set them up tubeless, but am still leery of not being able to get a tube in them roadside, if needed. Should I just toss them, or would you ride with them tubeless?
I vote No. Not only are they hard to get off, they likely are equally hard to get back on and may need high pressure to get the beads to pop in place. My wheels are similar but to a lesser, manageable, degree. But still valid concern. Imo, either try some other tyres or go full TLtard. - compressor, co2, bead lube, bead jack, sealant, plugs, foam insert, hardened steel levers, you know .. :-)
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Old 09-27-21, 12:53 AM
  #40  
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I tend to avoid the "tubeless" rims. But, even with those that were tubeless, I don't think I've ever had troubles breaking the bead.

I've broken car beads with a hand operated bead breaker (as well as pneumatic).

Perhaps one could design a bead tool.

I'm envisioning something like a large spoon, but built tough that would have a contour along the rim, and a handle you could push with a long of weight down and into the rim.

The trick with the bead breaker is to not push straight down, but to try to dig in a bit behind the rim.
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Old 09-27-21, 01:44 AM
  #41  
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One reason why I've never considered tubeless compatible road tires is because of all the horror stories about how tight they are and that would suck trying to install a tube on the road if I had to. But then I thought about the fact that the open tubular clinchers I ride are very tight brand new but they do stretch out over a few rides like regular tubulars. So now I'm actually considering a tubeless compatible open tubular like the 350 tpi Veloflex Corsa Race TLR. Running those with no tubes would be a super smooth ride.

Last year I bought a new MTB and when I converted them to tubeless is was a freaking nightmare because they were so tight. But because I had to remove/reinstall them so many times due to other problems (getting a good seal) I noticed they stretched out and became easier to mount. If I have to put in a tube on the trail it wouldn't be a problem. I assume road tires are the same.


Just noticed how many times I typed tube and tubular and tubeless, sorry
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Old 09-27-21, 05:32 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Or is any flat not acceptable, nor is calling someone to come get you or walking it home?
Flats are acceptable.

Walking home is not!

calling someone to pickup is not practical if where you ride has spotty cell coverage.

No, I personally would not ride one like that. But on the other hand, I frequently see riders walking on their cleats miles from town, or sitting at the dirt waiting for their ride.... So needless to say others are willing to accept that risk.

Last edited by atnyc; 09-27-21 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 09-27-21, 05:51 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by argulator View Post
Picked up a Cervelo Caledonia-5, which has almost new tubeless-ready Reserve wheels and Vittoria Rubino pro tires, which currently have tubes in them. Problem is the tires are nearly impossible to get off the rim. Nearly impossible unless you have a bench vise handy, then it's just really difficult. Roadside, not a chance.

I could set them up tubeless, but am still leery of not being able to get a tube in them roadside, if needed. Should I just toss them, or would you ride with them tubeless?
Do you want or need a tubeless setup? ie. do you flat somewhat often wherever you ride?
If no, just get a set of non TL clincher tires of some sort. That should solve your tire removal problems.
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Old 09-27-21, 07:11 AM
  #44  
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Last Friday after a buddy replaced his tube, he couldn't get his tire back on, even using that tire jack contraption.
He ended up making the call of shame. Personally I wouldn't ride a tire like that.
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Old 09-27-21, 07:36 AM
  #45  
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I had a SS conversion built for my wife that had Ritchey WCS tires on WTB rims. The tires were an impossibly tight fit, I think they may have been 'factory seconds'. I broke multiple tire levers trying to get them on (I normally do not use tire levers to install but these were a special case).

THis bike was regularly used, but one day was left in the front yard unlocked, and was stolen.

A few years later (~10) a friend was driving down a country road and spotted the bike left out for the garbage truck and he picked it up and returned it to me The only problem with the bike as far as I could tell was that it had a puncture in the rear tube. I suspect the then 'owner' (thief?) wasn't able to get the tire off to fix the flat so decided to junk it.
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Old 09-27-21, 12:47 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
I guessed this before I opened the thread.

replace with Rene Herse (widest you can cram into your frame and fork). They are tight but not insanely so.
Mounted a pair of those last night. Size 28, which should make them more difficult than most Herse tires. One went on a venerable Mavic G40 which has always been tight for most tires, one went on a newer H+Son. Both tires just slipped on. No tools, no fighting. Very sure when/if they need to come off roadside there will be no problem.

Learn how to do the job.

Rubinos and Marathon Plus are for masochists. If you aren’t, don’t use those tires.
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Old 09-27-21, 12:49 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by kahn View Post
You dismount by hand? No tire irons? Care to share this party trick? Video, perhaps?
I've considered making a video from time to time, but can't guarantee it would be entertaining! Maybe I'll take pictures at some point.

If the tire isn't completely flat to start with, I will give the wheel a "bear hug" while holding the valve open, to squeeze out as much air as possible -- I don't want to fight any residual air when trying to move the beads around. Then I pick a place on the wheel and grab onto the tire with my fingertips, and pull the sidewall that's facing away from me backward toward the center well of the rim. Since I'm not trying to pry anything up, just slide the bead laterally, I should be able to move it at least a little bit. Maybe if it's really tight you might have to work your way around the wheel more than once, scootching it a little bit at a time before you can get it all into the center. Once both beads are loose, I will stand up the wheel on my foot, pinch the tire between two fingers of each hand at the top and slide my hands down to the other end of the wheel. This forces the beads into the center well all the way around the wheel, and since I'm continuing to hold tension on the tire, they can't pop back out. Once my hands are at the bottom of the wheel, I can use one hand to maintain that tension while I flip the bottom of the wheel up. With the free hand holding the wheel near the rim for support, I'll take the slack bit of tire in my hand and push sideways to shove it over the sidewall of the rim. I'm pushing on the tire, so that it will pull the bead over the rim. (Those "bead jack" tools do a similar thing, pushing the bead laterally rather than prying it into or out of the rim.) It might be hard to get that first bit of the bead over the rim, but once it is, I use my helping hand to hold it there while I push the bit of tire right next to it over the rim, and so on.

I don't think any of this is original, and in retrospect it's easier to just do than to describe. It's certainly important with folding tires on my tubeless-compatible Pacenti SL23 wheelset, but I also have a pair of really tight Nokian snow tires that require good technique even with single-walled rims. Ditto for the cheap Sunlite tires on the Sun CR18 rims on my English 3-speed, the tall sidewalls on those rims require all the tire slack I can find!

Caveat: I haven't played with hookless rims yet. That hump in the rim bead might make it harder to break the bead (as it should!), but if no laws of physics were broken to mount the tires, we shouldn't have to break any to unmount the tires.
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Old 09-27-21, 01:12 PM
  #48  
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I can do that only with my loose summer MTB tires
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Old 09-27-21, 01:25 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
The problem is breaking the bead-lock, not getting the tire over the edge of the rim (whether off or on); a bead jack isn't going to help with that.
I know how you feel. I've been using GP4000, then GP5000 tires with tubes on my tubeless ready HED Ardennes rims. They've been pretty easy to dismount and mount. Some moderate to hard thumb pressure got the dismount started. Pumping up a newly mounted tire got the (startling at first) loud pop as the beads set into the tubeless groove. And a front pinch flat stayed in the grooves as I slowed down from 30 mph--yes, good.

But the most recent GP5000 was extremely hard to get that initial bead out of the rim groove. Shoving with both thumbs, or pulling from the opposite side with all four fingers. It just wouldn't get started. I couldn't fit my Pedro levers in between the sidewall and the rim either. It finally came loose in a short region, then the rest was easy. Ow, sore fingers.

Is there a tool to help pry out the first bit of the bead? I'm thinking something wide and thin, like a putty knife. With a slight hook across the end of the blade to help lever out the bead.

Last edited by rm -rf; 09-27-21 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 09-27-21, 01:32 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
The problem is breaking the bead-lock, not getting the tire over the edge of the rim (whether off or on); a bead jack isn't going to help with that.
True. If you're unable to get the bead unseated, no tool is going to help. I will say that in years of riding tubeless, the only beads I've had trouble unseating are on fat bikes (which have extraordinarily tight beads on my rims). I've had to put the wheel on the ground and step on the sidewalls of the tires to get the bead unseated on my fatbike...
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