livedarklions

I can delete what?
Just kidding, I deleted it.

Still glad you're enjoying your Roadmaster, btw.

70sSanO

Except for the disc brakes, I agree. But it is not up to Walmart, or Target, or any other big box to do this.

If it is a profitable model, it would be pretty easy, “after the supply chain returns,” for a startup to offer 1x bikes at a bit higher price than Walmart but more reasonable price than an LBS.

Actually if any of the major bike mfg’s really cared about making low cost more utilitarian bikes, they would offer a separate line and partner with Dick’s, or Home Depot, Pep Boys, etc. and offer them. Bring back the old hardware store bikes and put Walmart out of, at least the adult, bike business.

I think a lot of kid’s would want to get a bike where Dad buys power tools than the family buys toilet paper.

John

Viich

I definitely wouldn't ride a bike from a shop without going over it either. Say what you want, at most shops there is a wide variety of expertise, and you never know who will work on your bike. I've sworn off bike shops after my last experience.

I haven't seen anything "unrepairable" from shops - as others have said, the problem is twofold

1. People don't know how to fix their own stuff (and it's expensive to get someone else to do it)
2. Retail (and even wholesale) on replacement parts is way above what the bike OEMs pay - so it ends up being expensive just for parts relative to cost of the bike. It isn't actually any more expensive to fix than a more expensive bike.

Shimano coming down on Chain Reaction and similar stores that were re-selling with markup from the bike OEM price has made this even worse. That kind of differential pricing is the biggest core of the problem. I don't know what we can do about people looking at someone who can repair a simple machine like a bicycle as a wizard.

livedarklions

Not sure the Eurobike is "dangerous", but whatever.

I think this whole thing loses the plot when it's looked at from the consumer's angle. It may be perfectly rational for someone to buy a bike that lasts a year if it costs only $99 rather than saving up $400 or so for a bike that would last a lot longer, especially if they're buying it for a growing child. Having to defer the purchase to raise the money is time lost enjoying the bike just as much as down-time due to disrepair. But I'm also unclear on whether the complaint is that if it takes a $150 repair to keep going and that's more than the cost of a new bike, whether that's legitimately a complaint about the quality of the bike or the cost of repairs or neither.

Honestly, I don't want to sign the petition because I have no idea what that arbitrary 500 hours line would do to the cost of a bike, nor do I know what it means by "breaking down" since the "it makes sense to fix" is so dependent on the replacement price.

car5car

Please specify exactly which parts are welded, because I had a few cheap bikes and all parts were replaceable and easy to buy dirt cheap from ebay. Is it your personal opinion or some mechanic told you?

70sSanO

The petition is there to make people feel good about themselves that they are doing something.

There is a point at which the petition would carry some weight, but I’m guessing it will fall 100 million signatures short of that point.

Sign it or don’t sign it, nothing will change until a viable alternative is available that challenges the failing bikes. And an LBS is not the alternative.

John

livedarklions

They're going to keep posting stuff that implies that no one who knows anything would ride a bike like yours. It's complete nonsense, of course, and the argument never ends. TBH, I don't even think they get how insulting they're being.

Riding well is the best revenge, and it sounds like you do a lot of that.

Ironfish653

Point me out a $200 bike that uses BB30 or Hollowgram. I'll wait.

All those crazy variations (Press-Fit, Outboard Bearings, Hollow Spindles, et. al,) came about in the last decade and a half as ways to reduce weight or friction on high-performance bikes, and /or addressing assembly issues inherent in mass-produced monocoque carbon frames


Bargain bikes, (if they're not Ashtabulas) pretty much all use 68mm BSA-threaded, JIS Square-taper BBs. It's a design that has been standardized for nearly 50 years; and come in (retail) price range from $10 no-name to $150 Phill Wood or White Industries.
It takes time to re-invent the wheel, and time costs money. Everyone knows what a 68mm BSA Square Taper is; it's just a matter of how cheap you can make it.

Privolous

Canada's Dorel sold Pacific cycles, schwinn, mongoose, cannondale, etc to some guy in the Netherlands in December. what's in Walmart stock could be the last of the cheap bicycles we ever see . Nobody knows what the Netherlands guy is planning to do with his shut down Chinese factories

petition is pointless

UniChris

I'm pretty sure those are just labels to put on things that are manufactured under contract.

Buying the labels doesn't mean that "guy" bought any factories.

And even if he did, there are plenty of others who can fill Walmart orders at whatever price/quality Walmart purchasing dictates. So what if we see "Ozark Trail" bikes now.

Didn't what is effectively Giant spend years making stuff for other brands only to finally come up with their own name to market halfway decent stuff under?

LV2TNDM

Just because the manufacturers don't necessarily own the factories doesn't mean they aren't the ones specing the product. It's Dorel's or Pacific's product managers developing and specifying the product. The Asian factories simply bulid them to the mfgr's spec.

That said, someone above essentially said, "Target/WalMart doesn't spec the bikes..." This is technically true (as is my statement above), but WalMart works VERY CLOSELY with manufacturers in determining spec and price point. They "collaborate" on reaching certain price points. WalMart influences spec, color and price point. They're so big that they require this. Any manufacturer who doesn't "play ball" loses the account and millions in sales. So the manufacturers spec per big box requirements. They're both complicit, but ultimately the manufacturer is responsible.

Which is why a petition like this is circulating.

That said, the automobile market doesn't rely on the makers to provide safe products. It's a highly-regulated industry. This petition makes the argument for regulating the bicycle market. Now I realize I'm fanning the flames here, but if the mass market cannot provide safe bicycles, then perhaps it needs safety regulations like the auto market. "Unsafe at Any Speed," recently celebrating 50 years, is responsible for a lot of consumer safety regulations that have saved millions of lives. Ralf Nader showed how when you leave an industry's safety up to the private industry, they don't place safety at the top. Without regulation, Americans were being sold death traps.

And Peter Robison's recent "Flying blind : the 737 MAX tragedy and the fall of Boeing" exposes the peril of undermined regulation. It is an account of how airline safety regulation has eroded through budget cuts and regulatory capture. The result is an inherently flawed airplane whose design was the result of financial decisions over engineering good sense. Up until recently, airline regulation ensured excellent engineering and implementation.

The petition may indeed be "useless," but is begs an important question about the bicycle mass market and industry.

morecommas

It is amazing that bikes have become disposables. I'm always reminded of this when working on something as humble as a late 80s mountain bike that, even if it was used and abused in its day, still has many, many miles to offer.

grant40

I have seen some Walmart bikes that have been ridden almost daily for several years with little maintenance and still are able to ride. If someone is getting good use out of it, then I am not going to be a snob and hate them for not having a better bike.

jon c. 

There were some people who liked their Yugos. That didn't mean Yugos weren't a failed attempt at building a reasonably reliable automobile.

No one hates people who ride bikes from Walmart. They hate the fact that a lot of folks will have poor experiences with such bikes. Of course not all of them will, but with cheap, poorly assembled goods there are guaranteed to be a lot of post sale issues.

Had a good friend who rode a WalMart bike for a few years until it fell apart. Given the low price, he thought he got his money's worth. But he appreciates the ride on the bike he has now a lot more. About the same cost on the used market. There are better alternatives than Wal Mart but he was unaware of them when he started. Now he has a bike he likes more that will last longer.

ussprinceton

I find superior bikes on CraigsList for the price of WalMart bikes

UniChris

At the least, I'm finding fixing up craigslist bikes a great learning experience.

I'm basically 2 for 3, first and last purchases have been great, middle one (which was actually two) more of a learning experience than a result.

But I think my net investment is $140 in bikes and around $80 in tools, for two riders accommodated and a ton of knowledge gained.

Ironfish653

All well and good, provided you have a pretty deep CL, and a good way to get to where those “superior” bikes are.
In my area, setting the filter to “$200 or less” gets you about 110 bikes; 5 of them meet your criteria, 4 are early ‘00s ‘major brand’ MTBs, 26’ers that are about 8/10, and one ‘92 Cannondale road bike that’s a complete, but well-worn 6/10.
Half of what’s left are late model Department Store grade MTBs and 7-speed beach cruisers, the rest are kids bikes and rusty junk.
oh, and a 70’s Peugeot mixtie with a Scott AT-4, and dry-rotted tires that they’re asking $200 for

The main issues with buying off the used market is that you’ve got to have the knowledge to identify a “good” bike from a few pictures and basic description; size it, also from that same description; and then have the time, cash, and transport available to get it before someone else does.
Not everyone has that, or is willing to put all those elements together, for the sake of a $200 bike, so they buy one from the store.

Leinster

You have the knowledge, skills and tools to make those used bikes work. The average shopper buying a bike from a BigBox retailer has none of those things. At least if they buy from Walmart, they might get their money back if it falls apart.

SkinGriz

737 max. Argh…

If an airplane is pitching up into a stall, a pilots instinct should be to lower AOA by pushing the nose down. Exactly what the pilots in the crashed 737s tried to do.

What a mess.

car5car

Everybody is an idiot by default. Accept it. I am talking about people, who do something for you: car (or other) mechanics, plumbers, doctors, lawyers etc.
About 15 years ago I bought a textbook for medical students, spent 2 days, understanding 10 pages of it, then contacted idiot doctor and told him which pills he had to prescribe. He did.
You have to control everybody or try your best doing so.

grant40

I got this bike at Walmart to use as a beater bike. the rear wheel was extremely out of true, the chainrings were warped, the bottom bracket would come loose after each ride, no matter how hard I tightened it, and the brakes didn't work as there was friction in the cables. I did end up putting the rear brake from it on my Masi singlespeed at it was the only one that I could find that would work, and it works just fine. The headset on the Walmart bike had no grease and was overly tightened. I feel like Walmart bikes can go a long way if they are tuned and properly setup before getting ridden. This one would have to need a new bottom bracket, cables, grease, and a wheel truing to ride just fine

Jax Rhapsody

The bikes today, five years ago, ten years ago at walmart are no different. These bikes change so slow, they barely do. The only difference is it's rarer to find disc brake bikes. That one Mongoose with mags on it has them optional. Cranbrooks got a third redesign. You can still walk in walmart and buy the same Roadmaster Granite Peak, and Next Break Point from twenty years ago. And the same Cranbrook(basically). Excluding bmx bikes; ten years ago, there were still bikes with side pulls on it.

Jax Rhapsody

Is that why Walmart has a no questions asked return policy on bicycles?

hevysrf

I've worked for a contractor doing commercial refrigeration for Walmart, and they have a strong concern for product liability, perhaps stronger than product quality.
In my area, they use a contractor who hires the assemblers, I guess to reduce cost and push liability one step further away.

sloppy12

Ha I Had two yugos and a buddy who raced them. they were alot of fun to just beat on.