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SONdelux SL Repair Help/advice

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SONdelux SL Repair Help/advice

Old 01-16-22, 01:33 AM
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SONdelux SL Repair Help/advice

I have a contactless SON Delux 36H Hub that went thru a crash that tacoed the front wheel. I never suspected that the hub would be damaged but there is now no electrica output.
Has anyone here worked on these or taken them apart.?
Unfortunately I built up a whole new front wheel with the hub before discovering that the hub had gone bad.
The hub was purchased from Evans Cycles on Orcas Island Washington State in 2017.

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Old 01-16-22, 07:53 AM
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What is the warranty on Son hubs?
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Old 01-16-22, 09:17 PM
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The warranty is five (5) years. I purchased the hub from Dolphin Bay Cycles in September 2017. But the wheel was tacoed when an SUV struck me. I have written Penny at Peter White Cycles about the Warranty and am awaiting a response. But I've told them about the accident. The hub was unscathed and runs true and I can't see how it would damage the electrics. The rim was only tacoed and not seriously stressed to where the hub was visually harmed. Maybe these hubs are mor 'fragile' than I would expect? In any event... I expect that I'll need to effect the repair since just shipping a wheel back from New Zealand is well over $185 and takes weeks to arrive by FEDEX. There is no support for these hubs in New Zealand... heck; it was a major struggle to even locate one high quality rim that was 36 hole in the entire country! An SON hub is unheard of here, not a single bike shop has recognized the thing and I've been to a few good ones here.

I have heard that it's possible to take these hubs apart... Has anyone here done this?
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Old 01-16-22, 11:53 PM
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Try wheelworks.

https://www.wheelworks.co.nz/shop-2/...dynamo-wheels/
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Old 01-17-22, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by znomit View Post
Contacting them now, Thanks for that, I'd given up locally. Greatly appreciated!
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Old 01-19-22, 06:15 PM
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okay... gotta ask... did you run into a boat??

as far as damage... there's almost nothing inside these hubs except for bearings, magnets, wire, and a steel flux path. The only thing I can imagine getting damaged would be the terminals and the magnet wire that connects to them. If they were damaged, I suspect it would not be trivial to fix it.

edit: by "contactless", I assume you mean the type that has electrical connections through the axle and to the dropouts. No idea how hard it would be to damage the wire connection to these either, but it would be that much harder to get into the hub and fiddle with it. I'm wondering if you've verified that there wasn't damage to the electrical connections at the fork and the associated wiring?? A multimeter ought to do the job, but there's a chance that clamping a wheel in the fork might change things. Intermittent connections are not unheard of when things get cracked. I've spent a lot of time tracking down cracked solder connections or cracked traces in circuit boards.

Steve in Peoria

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Old 01-20-22, 09:11 AM
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How did you test it? Are you sure it's not the wiring in the fork? I'm sure SoN would fix it for you, but it's too bad you had the wheel repaired. If you send it to Peter J. White, he would put a rim on it to test it.

Other thoughts. What is the ground path? Is there some point where a ground wire is attached to the fork, or does the ground path go through a series of bolted connections?
If it's a series of bolted connections, are all the places where that is done made from stainless and are they currently corrosion free?

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Old 01-20-22, 11:55 AM
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SON Continuity

Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
How did you test it? Are you sure it's not the wiring in the fork? I'm sure SoN would fix it for you, but it's too bad you had the wheel repaired. If you send it to Peter J. White, he would put a rim on it to test it.

Other thoughts. What is the ground path? Is there some point where a ground wire is attached to the fork, or does the ground path go through a series of bolted connections?
If it's a series of bolted connections, are all the places where that is done made from stainless and are they currently corrosion free?
When the light did not work, I took the weel out of the frame; held voltmeter contacts to the SL (Contactless) surfaces (positive and negative) then spun the wheel
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Old 01-20-22, 06:07 PM
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Have you used a multimeter to test the wiring?
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Old 01-20-22, 10:19 PM
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A lithium ion battery is usually between 3.7 and 4.1 volts DC. I have used such batteries to test my dyno powered taillights. I have no idea if the voltage and amperage is strong enough to test a headlight, but it might be. Just a thought if you have such a battery for a phone or camera, you might be able to test your light system.

Some camera batteries have twice that voltage, since I have no experience at trying a DC source of such voltage on any dyno powered lights, I would not recommend that.
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Old 01-28-22, 11:36 PM
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Still trying to repair a SON Delux-SL Hub

Originally Posted by znomit View Post
They were only interested if they sold me a wheel that they built... but did offer advice to short the hub out and see if it sparks.

So the update is that my hub is still under warrantee and Peter White is corresponding (sporatically)
I've cut the wires from the SL contactless connector and checked at the Light. I have continuity from the plositive lead down to the SL contact imbeded in the drop=out and a very good ground to the hub.
But No Voltage on the VOM across those two wires when spun.
The hub has normal sound when the wheel is spun and it's ratchet-y a bit more than my other two SON hubs. But still 'normal'

It'll cost more to ship it to Peter than its worth...



Anyone disassemble one of these ???
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Old 01-29-22, 07:45 AM
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I looked at your location. Do you have a blog about your trip somewhere?
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Old 01-29-22, 11:37 AM
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If you could isolate your hub from the fork conductivity (piece of plastic or some other electric insulator) is it possible to manually hold the wires from a light to the hub while you spin the hub by hand to see if a light will work? Tail light takes less power, that would be a better test because when you spin it by hand you do not spin it very fast. Or multimeter, but a taillight would provide more certainty on whether or not it would work.

Normally you would not want to put a taillight directly wired to a hub because the taillight lacks overvoltage protection. But spinning it by hand will not cause enough voltage to be a problem.

Regarding your question, disassembly, I assume you mean the hub and not the wheel. If it truly is the hub that is not producing power, I would be very surprised if you could make a repair without needing proprietary parts.

If your question was disassembly of the wheel, did you mean take the wheel apart so you can install a new hub?

If you want to put a new hub in the wheel since you have new spokes and new rim, it would take hours to learn how to build up a wheel but if you have mechanical skills, it is possible. You need a good spoke wrench of the right size.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

I have been building my own wheels for decades. I do not have a tension meter, I try to get my spokes tight enough that when I squeeze a couple spokes together if feels similar to another wheel. I use my frame or fork with rim brake pads as a truing stand, I pull the wheel out and put it back in the other way frequently while tightening up spokes to avoid having a dished wheel.

Or, have you tried to contact Schmidt directly, tell that you bought the hub in USA, it should still be under warranty but you are half way across the globe now and need help.
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Old 01-29-22, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
If you could isolate your hub from the fork conductivity (piece of plastic or some other electric insulator) is it possible to manually hold the wires from a light to the hub while you spin the hub by hand to see if a light will work? Tail light takes less power, that would be a better test because when you spin it by hand you do not spin it very fast. Or multimeter, but a taillight would provide more certainty on whether or not it would work.

Normally you would not want to put a taillight directly wired to a hub because the taillight lacks overvoltage protection. But spinning it by hand will not cause enough voltage to be a problem.

Regarding your question, disassembly, I assume you mean the hub and not the wheel. If it truly is the hub that is not producing power, I would be very surprised if you could make a repair without needing proprietary parts.

If your question was disassembly of the wheel, did you mean take the wheel apart so you can install a new hub?

If you want to put a new hub in the wheel since you have new spokes and new rim, it would take hours to learn how to build up a wheel but if you have mechanical skills, it is possible. You need a good spoke wrench of the right size.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

I have been building my own wheels for decades. I do not have a tension meter, I try to get my spokes tight enough that when I squeeze a couple spokes together if feels similar to another wheel. I use my frame or fork with rim brake pads as a truing stand, I pull the wheel out and put it back in the other way frequently while tightening up spokes to avoid having a dished wheel.

Or, have you tried to contact Schmidt directly, tell that you bought the hub in USA, it should still be under warranty but you are half way across the globe now and need help.

Let's see where to begin.....

I do mean disassembly of the hub itself to go inside and see where the bits went wrong... I vaguely recall a post somewhere where this was done by an amateur like me.

I love build wheels and think my first was back when I was youngin about 17 years old using a wheel building book/pamphlet by a fellow in Santa Cruz California. It's lots of fun and everyone should give it a go. I re-laced and trued the current wheel under investigation using the front fork, brake pads, rubber bands and a pencil to true. Your advice to build your own is excellent!

I wrote Schmidt yesterday in slight frustration with local support. I'll report on that when I hear back.

Insulating.... I initially did put bits of cut up Polyethylene in the dropouts to isolate the positive side of the hub and test it with a VOLTMETER which (I am assuming is better than a light. There was no voltage present.

Is there an issue with using a working VOM on the 20V scale?


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Old 01-29-22, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 2flit View Post
...
Insulating.... I initially did put bits of cut up Polyethylene in the dropouts to isolate the positive side of the hub and test it with a VOLTMETER which (I am assuming is better than a light. There was no voltage present.

Is there an issue with using a working VOM on the 20V scale?
The reason that I suggested the light is that since the hub is intended to make the lights work and you have a couple, I assumed that was the simplest way to do it. If the light glows, it works.

But if there is zero voltage, that also suggests that the hub is not working. So, I would not bother to repeat the test with a light.

I was thinking that if there is weak current, too weak to light up the lights, it still might show voltage on a meter, in which case the meter might give you a false positive response.

Now we wait to see what Schmidt says.
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Old 01-30-22, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 2flit View Post
.....
I love build wheels and think my first was back when I was youngin about 17 years old using a wheel building book/pamphlet by a fellow in Santa Cruz California. It's lots of fun and everyone should give it a go. I re-laced and trued the current wheel under investigation using the front fork, brake pads, rubber bands and a pencil to true. Your advice to build your own is excellent!
I wonder if that was this book? I think I still have this, and know that I've got a scan of it.




although it has a forward from Tom Cuthbertson, from Santa Cruz, Maybe you are thinking of one of his books?


Originally Posted by 2flit View Post
Is there an issue with using a working VOM on the 20V scale?
Seems reasonable, especially if there is nothing else hooked up to the dynamo and the wheel is being spun at a speed similar to 10mph or so.
I've measured 15vac from my SON28 at 10mph and with no load.

Steve in Peoria
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Old 01-30-22, 10:56 PM
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Vac

Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
I wonder if that was this book? I think I still have this, and know that I've got a scan of it.




although it has a forward from Tom Cuthbertson, from Santa Cruz, Maybe you are thinking of one of his books?




Seems reasonable, especially if there is nothing else hooked up to the dynamo and the wheel is being spun at a speed similar to 10mph or so.
I've measured 15vac from my SON28 at 10mph and with no load.

Steve in Peoria
Yep, you have the correct pamphlet. Robert Wright had a bike shop in Santa Cruz for a spell and built wheels with a little red oval sticker that said "Wright Built"

Ah-Ha.... Is it truely an AC output from a Permanent Magnet Hub
Jeeesh! You may have 'solved' the issue.... I'll go back and try an ACV scale (since all I've been using is DC Volts. 'eye yei yie'
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