Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Myths of the road tubeless (or Go back to clinchers)

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Myths of the road tubeless (or Go back to clinchers)

Old 09-08-21, 01:53 PM
  #1  
Redbullet
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Myths of the road tubeless (or Go back to clinchers)

Issue: a small hole (less than 0.5 mm) on the rolling area of a road tubeless tire.
The result of 5-6 hours of repairing work: The hole is still there, the tire is down the floor and around 50 g sealant is spread on the room.

1. First myth - sealant repair:
The sealant did not make the repair. The high pressure (85-95 PSI in the road tire) made the sealant to continuously “spray” very slowly over the frame and rear brake. I tried 2 times, with 2 types of sealant, one of them from a high reputation brand (I removed and cleaned the tire before using the second type of sealant).

2. Second myth - Internal patch repair:
I took the tire off the rim, cleaned the tire and put an internal tubeless patch. It lasted for around 3 weeks, then the patch gradually detached. I assume that the normal flex of the tire during riding gradually broken the bond, although it was done with a special tubeless glue with higher elasticity.

3. Third myth - Plug repair:
I took the tire off the rim, cleaned up the patch zone, then I put it back on the rim and I used a rubber plug with its special glue. I put 50 g sealant and then other 20 g in the process. The plug was slowly “spit” out at a pressure around 90-100 PSI, while attempting the third time to seat the tire back (using a Schwalbe tire booster). The sealant spread on the ground, instead of sealing.

Sure, other might encounter different experience, but for me it looks that there are only 2 solutions to fix a small hole in a road tubeless tire: either a new tubeless or go back to comfortable clinchers.
Redbullet is offline  
Likes For Redbullet:
Old 09-08-21, 02:05 PM
  #2  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 37,835

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 352 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19363 Post(s)
Liked 7,925 Times in 3,999 Posts
Why are you starting a new thread? You've been told how to remedy the situation and you've seemingly ignored it - https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...ir-advice.html

Also, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
WhyFi is online now  
Old 09-08-21, 02:18 PM
  #3  
Broctoon
Super-duper Genius
 
Broctoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Muskrat Springs, Utah
Posts: 1,076
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 462 Post(s)
Liked 294 Times in 175 Posts
I’m sorry you’ve not had a good experience. In your case it seems tubeless tires might be of no benefit.

What you call myths are really not myths at all, as they generally hold true. So your experience was an exception, but that does not mean the benefits of tubeless tires are not realized for most people.

Not sure what you’re hoping to bring about with this thread. Just venting your frustrations? Fair enough. But don’t expect to win everyone over, like convincing the masses that road tubeless tires suck. Maybe just one of them sucked, on one wheel, with a particular puncture, for one person (you).

You summed it up in your last paragraph. That’s probably true in your individual case.
Broctoon is offline  
Likes For Broctoon:
Old 09-08-21, 02:19 PM
  #4  
Elvo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 4,724
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 613 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 344 Times in 189 Posts
Maybe try lower pressure? 95 seems really high for tubeless
Elvo is offline  
Old 09-08-21, 02:28 PM
  #5  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1190 Post(s)
Liked 247 Times in 164 Posts
Dude ...

You are making it up.
You did it all wrong.
You are a luddite.
You are a troll.
You were unlucky.
Your tyres are the exception.
Your sealant is the wrong make.
Your pressure is wrong.
Your tape ...

Racing Dan is offline  
Likes For Racing Dan:
Old 09-08-21, 02:47 PM
  #6  
datlas 
Beyond Bogus
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 37,632

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 519 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17448 Post(s)
Liked 4,780 Times in 2,319 Posts
That’s a myth. Myth!

__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 09-08-21, 03:14 PM
  #7  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,160
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1493 Post(s)
Liked 1,586 Times in 1,020 Posts
What a weird thread! 0.5 mm hole that won’t seal? Seriously? Whatever sealant you are using is NFG.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 09-08-21, 03:21 PM
  #8  
Redbullet
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by Elvo View Post
Maybe try lower pressure? 95 seems really high for tubeless
80-85 PSI. 95 was short time for seating the tire.
Redbullet is offline  
Likes For Redbullet:
Old 09-08-21, 03:22 PM
  #9  
Redbullet
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
What a weird thread! 0.5 mm hole that won’t seal? Seriously? Whatever sealant you are using is NFG.
One of them was schwalbe doc blue.
Redbullet is offline  
Old 09-08-21, 03:27 PM
  #10  
shelbyfv
Senior Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 10,039
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2970 Post(s)
Liked 3,752 Times in 1,930 Posts
You probably should take it to a shop.
shelbyfv is offline  
Likes For shelbyfv:
Old 09-08-21, 03:28 PM
  #11  
Branko D
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked 324 Times in 192 Posts
Out of curiosity, which tire? Very thin tires can have some issues sealing.
Branko D is offline  
Old 09-08-21, 03:30 PM
  #12  
Redbullet
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 18 Posts
I apologize if I created discomfort, it was not my intention. Just discard the word “myth” and read it as a true story.
My conclusion (last sentence) also highlights the good experience heard from others (which was a strong reason that made me switch to tubeless), but maybe the bad stories should also be heard - they might help others to make an informed decision
And yes, frustration is normal if you waste time, money and occasions to ride due to a poorly designed system. I never had issues with tubes patches, even those from non branded producers worked fast and perfect.
Redbullet is offline  
Likes For Redbullet:
Old 09-08-21, 03:32 PM
  #13  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,160
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1493 Post(s)
Liked 1,586 Times in 1,020 Posts
Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
One of them was schwalbe doc blue.
But it was still NFG. Why such high pressures anyway?

I use Muc-off sealant which has dealt with a 4 mm cut at around 70 psi. That was about the limit and needed a Dynaplug to make sure it stayed sealed. But it would seal a 0.5 mm hole easily.

Maybe the hole is a lot bigger than you think?
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 09-08-21, 03:33 PM
  #14  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 37,835

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 352 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19363 Post(s)
Liked 7,925 Times in 3,999 Posts
Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
One of them was schwalbe doc blue.
You keep saying how highly regarded it is, yet you're the first person I've come across that's mentioned using it.

It's just such a weird logical disconnect to have something so comprehensively fail and, instead of listening to simple solutions, to then conclude that that must be the way it's supposed to be... as if everybody with tubeless is wrestling over ways to address 0.5mm punctures.
WhyFi is online now  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 09-08-21, 03:33 PM
  #15  
Redbullet
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by Branko D View Post
Out of curiosity, which tire? Very thin tires can have some issues sealing.
Vittoria Corsa speed.

Redbullet is offline  
Old 09-08-21, 03:45 PM
  #16  
Redbullet
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
But it was still NFG. Why such high pressures anyway?

I use Muc-off sealant which has dealt with a 4 mm cut at around 70 psi. That was about the limit and needed a Dynaplug to make sure it stayed sealed. But it would seal a 0.5 mm hole easily.

Maybe the hole is a lot bigger than you think?
My tubeless is rated as 87-130 PSI. I rode it at around 85. I use higher pressure for short time for seating the tire. There is no chance to seat it at 85. Dynaplug is not available here, I should pay 10-15 EUR only for transport from abroad. Schwalbe doc blue is a well known name. It comes from "Stan's no tube", I think. If the system is ok, then all well known branded sealants should work ok, no matter if it is stan's, orange, doc blue, muc-off, etc. With tubes patches there is no need to make experiments: all of them work, including those that are not known brands...

Last edited by Redbullet; 09-08-21 at 03:52 PM.
Redbullet is offline  
Old 09-08-21, 04:12 PM
  #17  
jaxgtr
Senior Member
 
jaxgtr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 5,781

Bikes: Trek Domane SLR 7, Trek Emonda ALR 6, Trek FX 5 Sport

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 402 Post(s)
Liked 803 Times in 493 Posts
Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
80-85 PSI. 95 was short time for seating the tire.
What size tire are you running at 80-85? Still seems exceptionally high. When I run 28's, I am running at 70 psi
__________________
Brian | 2021 Trek Domane SLR 7 | 2016 Trek Emonda ALR 6 | 2022 Trek FX Sport 5 (On Order)
Originally Posted by AEO View Post
you should learn to embrace change, and mock it's failings every step of the way.







jaxgtr is offline  
Old 09-08-21, 04:12 PM
  #18  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 7,753

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4171 Post(s)
Liked 1,167 Times in 765 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
What a weird thread! 0.5 mm hole that won’t seal? Seriously? Whatever sealant you are using is NFG.
As an illustration, here is a hole that is about .5mm [EDIT].. actually on my laptop, the below might be a little bigger than .5mm
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 09-08-21, 04:49 PM
  #19  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,160
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1493 Post(s)
Liked 1,586 Times in 1,020 Posts
Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
My tubeless is rated as 87-130 PSI. I rode it at around 85. I use higher pressure for short time for seating the tire. There is no chance to seat it at 85. Dynaplug is not available here, I should pay 10-15 EUR only for transport from abroad. Schwalbe doc blue is a well known name. It comes from "Stan's no tube", I think. If the system is ok, then all well known branded sealants should work ok, no matter if it is stan's, orange, doc blue, muc-off, etc. With tubes patches there is no need to make experiments: all of them work, including those that are not known brands...
I dunno then. But I can safely say this is not a typical issue with tubeless. For whatever reason, you appear to have a combination that simply doesn’t work.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 09-08-21, 05:20 PM
  #20  
Pizzaiolo Americano 
Pizzaiolo Americano
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Hopefully riding my bike...
Posts: 540

Bikes: 2021 Trek Domane, Bianchi Intenso, Specialized Epic Evo, Surly Ice Cream Truck, Some other stuff

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked 139 Times in 68 Posts
Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
My tubeless is rated as 87-130 PSI. I rode it at around 85. I use higher pressure for short time for seating the tire. There is no chance to seat it at 85. Dynaplug is not available here, I should pay 10-15 EUR only for transport from abroad. Schwalbe doc blue is a well known name. It comes from "Stan's no tube", I think. If the system is ok, then all well known branded sealants should work ok, no matter if it is stan's, orange, doc blue, muc-off, etc. With tubes patches there is no need to make experiments: all of them work, including those that are not known brands...
Stans will not work properly at road pressures. If the Schwalbe stuff is the same as Stans, it will not work. Stans works fine in MTBs. It is crap in road bikes...
Pizzaiolo Americano is offline  
Likes For Pizzaiolo Americano:
Old 09-08-21, 05:25 PM
  #21  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 7,753

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4171 Post(s)
Liked 1,167 Times in 765 Posts
Originally Posted by yarbrough462 View Post
Stans will not work properly at road pressures. If the Schwalbe stuff is the same as Stans, it will not work. Stans works fine in MTBs. It is crap in road bikes...
If you read BF enough, you start getting the impression that whoever Stan is, he's doing more to try to kill off road tubeless than any number of forum posts can hope to.
Sy Reene is offline  
Likes For Sy Reene:
Old 09-08-21, 05:35 PM
  #22  
shelbyfv
Senior Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 10,039
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2970 Post(s)
Liked 3,752 Times in 1,930 Posts
This is beyond silly. The second post in OP's first thread about this suggested he try a different sealant. Just do it.
shelbyfv is offline  
Likes For shelbyfv:
Old 09-08-21, 06:50 PM
  #23  
aclinjury
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 660
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 496 Post(s)
Liked 169 Times in 128 Posts
Road tubeless sucks if:
1) you aren't using at least a 32c tire, or
2) Stans sealant

And who the hell wants to use any tire bigger than 25c, unless they're just.... tourists.

Meanwhile, fast group A guys are on clinchers with thin butyle tubes or latex tubes. Do you want to go fast or go like a tourist? If tourist, then yeah, stick to road tubeless bs.
aclinjury is offline  
Likes For aclinjury:
Old 09-08-21, 07:24 PM
  #24  
Atlas Shrugged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 660
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 405 Post(s)
Liked 463 Times in 234 Posts
Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
Road tubeless sucks if:
1) you aren't using at least a 32c tire, or
2) Stans sealant

And who the hell wants to use any tire bigger than 25c, unless they're just.... tourists.

Meanwhile, fast group A guys are on clinchers with thin butyle tubes or latex tubes. Do you want to go fast or go like a tourist? If tourist, then yeah, stick to road tubeless bs.
I assume by your comments you are a fast group A guy!
Atlas Shrugged is offline  
Likes For Atlas Shrugged:
Old 09-08-21, 08:01 PM
  #25  
DangerousDanR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Fargo ND
Posts: 375

Bikes: Lynskey R350, Ritchey Breakaway, Ritchey Double Switchback, Lynskey Ridgeline, ICAN Fatbike

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked 184 Times in 104 Posts
Remember this?



That is a very worn out 700CX32 GP5000 on my tandem and it held 90 PSI after I ran that #8 X 1.25" backer board screw into it. With a screw gun... That hole is at least 4mm. I use Orange Seal Subzero which does not plug big holes as well as their other sealants, but works in Fargo winters and takes longer to dry out.

On my road bike I have run 700CX25 either Pro Ones or GP50000s tubeless for three years, and all of the flats I have had were large sidewall cuts like this one


and I would not have ridden those tires with a tube in them. All four went in the bin. My current tires are GP5000. The rear has several gouges that expose the casing, and it holds 100 PSI which I check before every ride with a digital gauge that is within 1% of a calibrated digital gauge. Rolling resistance? Take a look at https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...beless-sealant

Yes, you do need to replenish the sealant periodically. Use a syringe that fits in the valve and it is no big deal. I can accept that tubeless are sometimes hard to install. I have started using a tire mounting lubricant and I use a compressor to seat them, so that is not an issue for me. And I sort of get the folks who are afraid to get their hands dirty or don't want to get orange goo that will wash out in the laundry on their jersey, But can't patch a 0.5 mm hole in the tread? I call BULL SHIRT.
DangerousDanR is offline  
Likes For DangerousDanR:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.