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Early Moser frame identification

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Early Moser frame identification

Old 11-08-21, 12:07 PM
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le bici di jaco
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Early Moser frame identification

I went to a bike salvage guy to look for parts, and instead of finding any parts worth anything I managed to come away with a couple of cheap frames. They are a bit rusty looking like they sat outside in the pile for a spell. He had better frames, but they all looked like low quality welded aluminum stuff; probably why they were left to the elements. One is showing itself to be a Moser/FMoser frame per the engraved frame and fork. The other is unknown but has a bunch a 'star' cut-outs on the lugs, fork, and bottom bracket shell. I got the Moser frame because it looked kind of cool even though a bit big for me. The 'star' frame I got because it too seemed like a nice frame and was my size. Both frames are lightweight and verified to have Italian threaded bottom brackets ('star' frame had one installed-OMAS?), Camp. front and rear drop-outs & top shell cable guides, and fit a 27.2mm seat post. Neither had any decals for further identification.
Here are photos of the Moser frame. Hopefully someone can give an idea of what it is and its age (I guess-estimate mid 70s to early 80s). I took a bunch of photos to provide visuals of all the details. I could barely make out the down tube and seat tube decals (MOSER lettering) from the paint discoloration; the headbadge decal outline was also just barely visible and appears to be oval with a 'tail' (like a backwards "Q"). There appeared to be tiny decal remnants (gold and red) at the top of the seat tube that may indicate Columbus tubing, but what type; I wouldn't know. There is a 1986 bike club decal on it so I assume it to be earlier than that year. I have learned about the ridges in Columbus' steering tubes and saw none (the 'star' frame does have them). "56" stamped on steerer, "57" stamped on bottom bracket. Size measured 56cm top tube c-c, 57cm seat tube c-c, head tube 16cm, bottom bracket shell 70mm, rear fork 125mm, post 27.2mm.












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Old 11-08-21, 01:31 PM
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Fork details and faint image of headbadge decal outline:








Moser steerer tube

Moser head tube with headbadge outline
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Old 11-08-21, 02:18 PM
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The dropout is drilled for a Campagnolo Portacatena. That was introduced in 1977. So, you frame is after that. I have a Moser that I believe is a 1984/5. Your frame has some things in common with mine, but definitely earlier. So, my guess is between 1977 and 1984. Pretty much the same as your guess. One thing I would like to warn you about. If the brake bridge is the same as mine, it doesn't accept a regular recessed nut. It uses a funky looking recessed nut. Basically, it looks like a smooth set screw/grub screw with internal threading. I hope you can picture it from that poor description. Better yet, I hope you don't have the same bridge.

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Old 11-09-21, 12:22 AM
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Thank you gearbasher . I will check the brake mount and see what will fit. What type of headbadge is on your bike? Is it oval or round? I have only seen examples with "MOSER" in vertical lettering. I would like to put on some decals if I do end up painting it. I probably will sell it since it is a little large, but for $50 I thought it was a decent enough frame to try and practice on, but not so nice or expensive that I could really screw up too badly when I try my hand at paint work. I do need to weigh it and get an idea as to its tubing make-up. The 'star' frame seems lighter even with BB installed, but is a smaller frame by 4cm height wise.

Jake
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Old 11-09-21, 05:42 AM
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My bike has Moser in vertical lettering on the head tube. How about some pics of the "star" frame? It sounds interesting.
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Old 11-09-21, 08:22 AM
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Moser didnt start making bikes until 1979. The early ones...79, 80, and 81 would have had stenciled in paint Francesco Moser on the downtube. Also not sure when they started using that bottom bracket shell.
i haven't researched too much after those years as they don't apply to mine.
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Old 11-09-21, 08:24 AM
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Please disregard the aero cage... it was only on there for a day. It bothered me.
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Old 11-09-21, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by uncleivan View Post
Moser didnt start making bikes until 1979. The early ones...79, 80, and 81 would have had stenciled in paint Francesco Moser on the downtube. Also not sure when they started using that bottom bracket shell.
i haven't researched too much after those years as they don't apply to mine.
My Moser could be the twin sister of yours.. Same color and stenciled "Moser" in paint, but it has decals celebrating his hour record and came with pantographed Nuovo Gran Sport parts (discontinued in '85), also with hour record graphics. He set the record in Jan. 1984. So mine has to be late '84 or '85.

Also, the OP's Moser has above the BB cable guides which would put it in the earlier range.

Last edited by gearbasher; 11-09-21 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 11-09-21, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gearbasher View Post
My bike has Moser in vertical lettering on the head tube. How about some pics of the "star" frame? It sounds interesting.
I just took photos of it last night so will try to post it in its own thread shortly. I am still trying to research this frame. It would be nice if examples I saw showed the BB on earlier bikes. I found a frame that has a headbadge that is the portrait of Moser and its outline matches what I can make out on my head tube so I believe that I found something that gets closer to identification of the year on this frame. uncleivan (thanks by the way) states that Moser frames started being made in '79, but the bike I saw reference the year of that frame as '78. I saw somewhere another statement that they didn't make frames until '84, but I think that individual was referencing the "51.151" brand as their first frames and not the pre-hour record bikes previously made. To further complicate the issue, after seeing the oval headbadge, I went onto ebay and searched Moser decals to see what popped up. I got 2 hits for the portrait style headbadge; one specifically stating "Francesco Moser 1977 racing bike decals". Now it gets weirder since there are 3 decals in the "'1977" with dates: one is the Pernod trophy 1978, and 2 showing World Championship victories: "CAMPIONE del MONDO SU STRADA 1978" (Champion of World on Road); and "CAMPIONE del MONDO 1978" (Champion of World).
Another set is identical except it also has 2 World Championship victories: "CAMPIONE del MONDO SU STRADA 1977"; and "CAMPIONE del MONDO 1976". Are these correct; did Moser bikes actually have World Champion decals on them even though he did not win in the indicated year? I didn't know so I checked that 1977 was his only victory for the road race championship (second place in 76 and 78), and another victory in 1976 for individual pursuit on track; but no world championship victories in 1978 for any discipline. I must assume that the "1977" set is erroneous on multiple levels since the '78 decals are wrong and they could not have been on a '77 bike frame even if Moser made frames that early. The "1977" includes a Columbus decal with 2 wings on the dove; I don't know if that is correct since I know that it changed to 1 wing at some time.
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Old 11-09-21, 01:07 PM
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The decals are to commemorate his win in 78..... It was a season long competition for 'best overall rider', not a 'specific race. They put those on quite a few of his bikes.
Mine is from 80/81, and has FM cut out on the bottom bracket shell.
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Old 11-09-21, 02:26 PM
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My bike's top tube has a decal that says (it's in poor condition and hard to read) Trophee Super Prestige Pernod Arc en Ciel F. Moser 1978. There are two decals on the seat tube that say 51.151 Campione Del Mondo 1977 Campione D'Italia 75-79-81

My BB shell has the same slotted cutout the Op has. But, there is no Moser stamp and there are under the bracket cable guides. It also has Moser dropouts.

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Old 11-09-21, 03:56 PM
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The frame probably dates from 1984-? 85?
here are a few pics of mine...although I'm fairly sure it was built by De rosa, there are quite a few small differences.






Last pic is Moser on the right in 1980.

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Old 11-09-21, 05:52 PM
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1981...82? Portacatenas can be deceptive because frame makers kept using them since the drops themselves were still fine w/o the ports needed.
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Old 11-09-21, 06:05 PM
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Here's my Moser. The only pic I have. It no longer has the pantographed parts. I sold those to a guy in Japan for more than I paid for the entire bike. It now has mostly Campy 9 speed (record and Chorus) and fenders. It's my foul weather bike,


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Old 11-10-21, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by uncleivan View Post
The decals are to commemorate his win in 78..... It was a season long competition for 'best overall rider', not a 'specific race. They put those on quite a few of his bikes.
Mine is from 80/81, and has FM cut out on the bottom bracket shell.
I do understand that the "Pernod trophy" decal with 1978 is for season overall points leader; but the other 2 band style decals specifically state "World Champion" and "World Champion Road", both with world champion stripes for '78 also. Yes, he won a lot and/or finished in the top group, but still never won any world championship in '78 as the decals plainly state. The decals stating world championship wins in 76 and 77 are identical to the '78 decals other than the year of victories shown on them. My frame clearly has outlines, or paint discoloration on the seat tube where there were 2 band decals above and below MOSER; as well the same indications of decals on the down tube showing Francesco Moser; and on the head tube showing the oval decal. There is no indication of any sign of a decal on the top tube making me think this is a 1977-1978 model which could still have the 2 World Champ. decals, but not the "Pernod" decal until later.

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Old 11-10-21, 07:44 PM
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They did not make bikes in 77-78. The bikes that were raced by moser during those years were built by De Rosa. If you go to bulgier.net there are some catalogs from 81 or so, the earliest production bikes from Francesco Moser. I've done a lot more than an hour of research.
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Old 11-10-21, 08:01 PM
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Old 11-10-21, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by uncleivan View Post
They did not make bikes in 77-78. The bikes that were raced by moser during those years were built by De Rosa. If you go to bulgier.net there are some catalogs from 81 or so, the earliest production bikes from Francesco Moser. I've done a lot more than an hour of research.
I do not dispute your knowledge or research; but I have been given information by others also. I did look at the bulgier catalog, but I didn't see a date; all the models I saw there had "moser" headbadges no portrait styles. That would only leave '79 or '80 for dating my frame if that catalog is from '81.

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Old 11-11-21, 12:03 AM
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gearbasher I have found out that the "star" frame is a Viner "Special Professional" with Columbus SL tubing. Photos have been posted of it; I will dedicate my time to that frame first as it needs more help and I want to ride it. Will take it to a professional painter for proper restoration.
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Old 11-11-21, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by le bici di jaco View Post
gearbasher I have found out that the "star" frame is a Viner "Special Professional" with Columbus SL tubing. Photos have been posted of it; I will dedicate my time to that frame first as it needs more help and I want to ride it. Will take it to a professional painter for proper restoration.
Thanks for the heads-up. I've been following that thread.
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Old 11-11-21, 04:33 PM
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Here is a conversation I have had with a gentleman in Italy over the past couple of weeks. I cannot refute or confirm his testimony. As with information provided on this site, I just take it all in and try to form the best conclusion I can; be it correct or not. I do not profess to be any sort of expert (I am new to this hobby except as a rider), and will only repeat what information I have gathered, without prejudice, allowing others to form their own conclusions.
Conversation follows (unedited for content or correctness):
"I am trying to restore an older Moser bike; '70s to very early '80s, I believe. It appears to have had the Moser 'head' headbadge. You had referenced your '78 and '79 Mosers. Did they both have the 'head' badge or the Moser vertical decals? Did they have World Championship decals with the year on them? Thank you for your time and consideration.Respectfully,
Jake"
Response(s): "The ‘78 Moser had the ‘head’ decal and the later one had the vertical word being original decals."

"Thank you, it appears I need the 'head' badge. Any idea of what year that had stopped being used? Just trying to narrow down the year; frame appears to be Columbus, but unknown type.

Thanks again,
Jake"

"Actually my red moser is a pre 1979 as it doesn’t have the 1978 Pernod trophy decal. I’m no authority on mosers but there are loads of decal veriations over the years..
You could copy the decal layout on mine as a pre 79 bench mark."

"Thank you for your insight regarding this matter. I have looked carefully at the frame and I can make out discoloration of the paint: on the seat tube where there was an upper and lower band (presumably the '76 & '77 world champion decals) between which was "MOSER" lettering; on the down tube where there can be discerned "MOSER" lettering preceded by more lettering in a smaller font (presumably Francesco in script or block lettering); and on the head tube where there is the oval outline of the headbadge. There is no indication of the top tube "Pernod trophy" decal (either side of tube) whether by paint discoloration or decal remnants to show the past presence of that decal. So it may be that this frame is also a model year frame before 1979, or at least before the use of the "Pernod" decal. I have seen it said that the first year for Moser frames was 1979, but I have now seen multiple examples of frames claiming to be pre-'79 in manufacture. Just curious; what style of cut-out is on your bottom bracket (single slot or "FM"), and does it have "FMoser" in raised lettering; does it have "FMoser" stamped on the brake bridge
knuckle?

Thanks again,
Jake"

"Hi,
The bottom bracket has a FM cut out. It doesn’t have any raised lettering, it does have rear brake bridge spears and a M cut outs in the lugs and FM engraved on the front fork crown. It was made by Antonio Taverna at Vetta in north east Italy, they made a lot of top name frames in the 70’s. I mailed them and they said mine was a moser original.
When I rode it in l’eroica I literally bumped into Francesco himself! Our bikes were virtually identical his friends took a few pictures of the bikes together.. both had yellow graphics and cabling, his was light blue and mine red his had super record and mine had dura ace.. both had assos saddles.

Regards
Edoardo"

"Hi Edoardo,
Wow! Great story. I am still trying figure this frame out; so many similarities, but just enough differences. I saw a catalog purported to be from either '81 or '83; I could not

make out the seat tube world chanpionship decals; but I could see that the headbadges were "MOSER" lettering and not his portrait. I have been corrected for saying that there are bikes from before 1979. That is only due to other's references to their own bikes (such as yours) and not my frame since I still do not know its provenance. I would love to talk to Mr. Moser and inquire as to what year he first designed and had frames built under the Cicli Moser marque.​​​​​​
Please be safe over there. I'm in the US, and I am still in the dark regarding European cycling lore.

Thank you,
Jake"

If I receive any more replies that directly apply to this thread I will post them accordingly. I now need to research Mr. Antonio Taverna to see if more light can be shed on this subject. Perhaps, if still possible, I can contact Mr. Taverna and/or Vetta to get some information as to what year(s) he was contracted to build frames for Moser.

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Old 11-11-21, 06:22 PM
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Believe what you want. The bike moser raced at paris roubaix in 1979 and carried over to 1980 it has the moser portrait on the head tube, blue with yellow graphics. The next year 80/81 season the Sanson Campagnolo team bikes were blue with white, with moser vertically on the headtube. There are pictures online of quite a few races.
It's possible that some moser production bikes got the portrait headtube decal..I do not know. I have seen the decals online, but have yet to see a catalog with them in it.

Last edited by uncleivan; 11-11-21 at 06:59 PM.
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