Vintage Shimano Compatibility Check
11-13-21, 09:22 AM
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Vintage Shimano Compatibility Check
Hello fine fellows.
Wondering if this XT GS 7-speed cassette will be compatible with my Shimano Ultegra 6400 7-speed derailleur. And is 28 teeth too much for that road derailleur?
Running non-vintage Velo-Orange hubs, hence the need for Hyperglide. Need easier gearing for my beloved Masi.
.
-Calamarichris in Carlsbad, CA
Thanks in advance for any guidance. Stay well and ride safe
Wondering if this XT GS 7-speed cassette will be compatible with my Shimano Ultegra 6400 7-speed derailleur. And is 28 teeth too much for that road derailleur?
Running non-vintage Velo-Orange hubs, hence the need for Hyperglide. Need easier gearing for my beloved Masi.
.
-Calamarichris in Carlsbad, CA
Thanks in advance for any guidance. Stay well and ride safe
11-13-21, 09:29 AM
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By rule of thumb, should be fine - anything (except front derailleurs) Shimano MTB 9 speed and below will work with anything road 10speed and below, except the current 10sp stuff that uses the same cable pull as 11sp - Tiagra 4700 & GRX400.
Shimano never messed with cassette spacing between MTB & road that I know of.
Shimano never messed with cassette spacing between MTB & road that I know of.
11-13-21, 09:56 AM
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You should be fine. Might have to mess some with the B screw on the RD to be happy with the 28 tooth rear cog, but indexing should be fine.
All Shimano cog spacing for 7 speed is the same.
All Shimano cog spacing for 7 speed is the same.
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11-13-21, 02:14 PM
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Thank you kindly gents!
11-13-21, 08:38 PM
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I'm confused - your beloved Masi is rocking ST-6400s, which are 8s.
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11-14-21, 11:00 AM
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Dammit. 
Ah well. Let's see if the Ebay seller has already shipped it. (Hate it when I do dumb stuff.)
I got it confused with my other bike, a Team Stuttgart Merckx that has those same brifters but on Sante (7-speed) hubs. I guess the guy I bought it from must have manipulated the limit screws to get the 8 speed brifters to work with the 7 speed freewheel.
You have a keen eye. Thank you.
Ah well. Let's see if the Ebay seller has already shipped it. (Hate it when I do dumb stuff.)
I got it confused with my other bike, a Team Stuttgart Merckx that has those same brifters but on Sante (7-speed) hubs. I guess the guy I bought it from must have manipulated the limit screws to get the 8 speed brifters to work with the 7 speed freewheel.
You have a keen eye. Thank you.
11-14-21, 11:55 PM
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11-15-21, 11:01 AM
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By rule of thumb, should be fine - anything (except front derailleurs) Shimano MTB 9 speed and below will work with anything road 10speed and below, except the current 10sp stuff that uses the same cable pull as 11sp - Tiagra 4700 & GRX400.
Shimano never messed with cassette spacing between MTB & road that I know of.
Shimano never messed with cassette spacing between MTB & road that I know of.
11-15-21, 11:57 AM
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Dammit.
Ah well. Let's see if the Ebay seller has already shipped it. (Hate it when I do dumb stuff.)
I got it confused with my other bike, a Team Stuttgart Merckx that has those same brifters but on Sante (7-speed) hubs. I guess the guy I bought it from must have manipulated the limit screws to get the 8 speed brifters to work with the 7 speed freewheel.
You have a keen eye. Thank you.
Ah well. Let's see if the Ebay seller has already shipped it. (Hate it when I do dumb stuff.)
I got it confused with my other bike, a Team Stuttgart Merckx that has those same brifters but on Sante (7-speed) hubs. I guess the guy I bought it from must have manipulated the limit screws to get the 8 speed brifters to work with the 7 speed freewheel.
You have a keen eye. Thank you.
11-15-21, 12:14 PM
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According to Velobase, the RD-6400 has a maximum cog size of 28 and max chainwrap of 26. That of course is independent of whether your shifters are compatible.
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...2-d3236e2fd096
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...2-d3236e2fd096
11-15-21, 12:17 PM
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What?? That is completely wrong.
11-15-21, 01:06 PM
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Shimano:
5 speed and 6 speed = 5.5mm center to center cog spacing
7 speed = 5.0mm
8 speed = 4.8mm.
So…with regard to 8 speed shifters idexing a 7 speed cassette, they are close, but not the same. If you set 8 speed indexing to be perfectly centered in the middle of a 7 speed cassette, it would be off by .6mm at either end.
Which means it might work, but not that well.
5 speed and 6 speed = 5.5mm center to center cog spacing
7 speed = 5.0mm
8 speed = 4.8mm.
So…with regard to 8 speed shifters idexing a 7 speed cassette, they are close, but not the same. If you set 8 speed indexing to be perfectly centered in the middle of a 7 speed cassette, it would be off by .6mm at either end.
Which means it might work, but not that well.
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11-15-21, 01:29 PM
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Shimano:
5 speed and 6 speed = 5.5mm center to center cog spacing
7 speed = 5.0mm
8 speed = 4.8mm.
So…with regard to 8 speed shifters idexing a 7 speed cassette, they are close, but not the same. If you set 8 speed indexing to be perfectly centered in the middle of a 7 speed cassette, it would be off by .6mm at either end.
Which means it might work, but not that well.
5 speed and 6 speed = 5.5mm center to center cog spacing
7 speed = 5.0mm
8 speed = 4.8mm.
So…with regard to 8 speed shifters idexing a 7 speed cassette, they are close, but not the same. If you set 8 speed indexing to be perfectly centered in the middle of a 7 speed cassette, it would be off by .6mm at either end.
Which means it might work, but not that well.
11-15-21, 02:14 PM
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You're right, I made a mistake there. Though it's not completely wrong that you can make this stuff work together, I exaggerated compatibility quite a bit.
You can use 8sp with 7sp, and 7sp with 5 or 6.
Spacing per gear:
You can use the same trick to use 8sp with 7sp - though they're close enough you might be better off with standard routing, depending.
You can use 8sp with 7sp, and 7sp with 5 or 6.
Spacing per gear:
5 & 6 sp - 5.5mm
7sp - 5mm
8sp - 4.8mm
You can use 7sp shifters with the alternate cable routing described by Sheldon Brown here to pull more cable. (Shimano also publicized this at the time)7sp - 5mm
8sp - 4.8mm
You can use the same trick to use 8sp with 7sp - though they're close enough you might be better off with standard routing, depending.
11-15-21, 02:18 PM
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You're right, I made a mistake there. Though it's not completely wrong that you can make this stuff work together, I exaggerated compatibility quite a bit.
You can use 8sp with 7sp, and 7sp with 5 or 6.
Spacing per gear:
You can use the same trick to use 8sp with 7sp - though they're close enough you might be better off with standard routing, depending.
You can use 8sp with 7sp, and 7sp with 5 or 6.
Spacing per gear:
5 & 6 sp - 5.5mm
7sp - 5mm
8sp - 4.8mm
You can use 7sp shifters with the alternate cable routing described by Sheldon Brown here to pull more cable. (Shimano also publicized this at the time)7sp - 5mm
8sp - 4.8mm
You can use the same trick to use 8sp with 7sp - though they're close enough you might be better off with standard routing, depending.
11-15-21, 02:20 PM
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11-16-21, 03:38 PM
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Shimano:
5 speed and 6 speed = 5.5mm center to center cog spacing
7 speed = 5.0mm
8 speed = 4.8mm.
So…with regard to 8 speed shifters idexing a 7 speed cassette, they are close, but not the same. If you set 8 speed indexing to be perfectly centered in the middle of a 7 speed cassette, it would be off by .6mm at either end.
Which means it might work, but not that well.
5 speed and 6 speed = 5.5mm center to center cog spacing
7 speed = 5.0mm
8 speed = 4.8mm.
So…with regard to 8 speed shifters idexing a 7 speed cassette, they are close, but not the same. If you set 8 speed indexing to be perfectly centered in the middle of a 7 speed cassette, it would be off by .6mm at either end.
Which means it might work, but not that well.
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