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Selecting IGH hubs?

Old 05-13-22, 12:22 PM
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tiger1964 
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Selecting IGH hubs?

From another topic:

Originally Posted by tcs
I've been riding my XRK8 on a bike with 650 wheels since the fall of 2009. Great hub. It's relatively simple inside and relatively easy to take apart and re-grease, unlike the Nexus/Alfine 8 (Take an SG-S7001-8 apart? Are you mad? Just dunk it in oil and let it leak. Since the success of the Sturmey 8, Shimano has introduced a couple of IGH models with direct drive on the lowest gear, also intended for bikes of any wheel size.
I am planning this winter's project to be a bike converted to be an IGH. Originally I was thinking Shimano Alfine or Nexus, 7 or 8 speeds, I am not all that picky on # of gears or range (well, I'd like more that 3 gears...) Was not aware of the RK8 so that's interesting. But reading about a bit, some IGH's have the 1:1 gear in 1st (lowest) gear, some have 1:1 in a much higher gear. Do I understand correctly that friction losses on IGH's are on the 1:1 gear, and losses increase in others? I think it would drive me nuts if I was riding most often in gears with high losses. I have not had a bike with an IGH since 1971.

I tend to ride in one gear a lot, and reserve the others for climbs or the occasional descent. Then again, the ease of shifting with an IGH might be utilizing the choice more often. So I was thinking set up the gearing with my "flat and level" gear at 1:1, leaving 1 or 2 gears higher, and the others reserved as climbing gears. Is there a fundamental flaw in that plan?
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Old 05-13-22, 12:24 PM
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No.
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Old 05-14-22, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Salubrious
No.
Thanks -- whichever question you were answering.

A while back I found and copied this from the internet somewhere: "The internal planetary gear hubs measured were the Shimano Alfine 11, Rohloff 500/14 Speedhub, SRAM Dual-Drive, and the Sturmey Archer X-RK8(W). In addition a single-speed direct chain drive, a single-speed belt drive, and a 7-speed derailleur system were measured. The efficiency of the Shimano Alfine ranged from 90.4% to 96.6%. The efficiency of the Rohloff speed hub ranged from 95.8% to 99.5%. The efficiency of the Sturmey Archer hub ranged from 84.6% to 99.8%. The efficiency of the single speed chain drive was found to be 99.71% and the belt drive 98.0%. The efficiency of the 7-speed derailleur ranged from 97.7% to 99.4%. These values found for efficiency are comparable to other studies." That 84.6% on the S-A hub scares me a bit, unless it's on a granny gear I'll rarely use... that's what I am trying to find out... how to get a reasonable range of gears, and specifically minimize losses in the "sweet spot" of gearing where I spend most of my time.
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Old 05-14-22, 09:51 AM
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My experience with a 7 speed Nexus was that it seemed to be lower in efficiency in the highest gears. I rarely got into those two highest gears, anyway, and was always going downhill when I was in them, headed home from work, so nothing was going to ruin my day.
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Old 05-14-22, 10:10 AM
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Well, if you only ride in one gear a lot, why not try this. Pretty simple I’m pretty happy with it, 1 gear for flats, 1 gear for hills, Sturmey Archer.
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Old 05-14-22, 10:10 AM
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One advantage to the Rohloff, IMO, besides the wide range and multiple gears, is that the step changes between the gears is equal. This is not so with Shimano hubs. I ride IGH in the winter and the Shimano drove me nuts. Much happier with he Rohloff. Expensive, so unless you are really wedded to IGH riding, that may not be worth the cost difference.
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Old 05-15-22, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by balindamood
One advantage to the Rohloff, IMO, besides the wide range and multiple gears, is that the step changes between the gears is equal. This is not so with Shimano hubs. I ride IGH in the winter and the Shimano drove me nuts. Much happier with he Rohloff. Expensive, so unless you are really wedded to IGH riding, that may not be worth the cost difference.
I have a friend with two Bilenky-built upright "touring" bikes w/Rohloffs; I got to ride one around a parking lot once. I really liked it (the hub, NOT the bike), but the price was eye-watering then, I presume more so now. That said, thanks for the input. I presume the criteria for hub selection might be: range, steps between gears, friction losses, durability, price, width. What else?
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Old 05-15-22, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
I have a friend with two Bilenky-built upright "touring" bikes w/Rohloffs; I got to ride one around a parking lot once. I really liked it (the hub, NOT the bike), but the price was eye-watering then, I presume more so now. That said, thanks for the input. I presume the criteria for hub selection might be: range, steps between gears, friction losses, durability, price, width. What else?
I too was seriously shocked when I saw the price a few years ago. I can’t imagine what they are now.

I can’t help you with your friction losses quandary but I look forward to seeing the wheel you put together.
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Old 05-16-22, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by RustyJames
but I look forward to seeing the wheel you put together.
Selecting the hub might be the hardest art of the wheel, and the bike project overall; hopefully between this topic and perhaps others before I need to commit — my plans are for this winter — I will know enough to make a good choice. And, as always these days, this presumes that my chosen hub is actually available!

This bike is a 1974 Falcon that was gifted to me by a childhood friend; he had bought it new. Mish-mash of components, 531 tubing, Campy dropouts. As part of my five-bike “project”, the frame is now stripped and powder-coated and fresh decals. There’s a topic around somewhere I had stared 1.5 years ago before I finally realized I cannot do five bikes over one winter ($$$).

The goal is my particular take on a British “fast tourer” but I am not following any particular rules. Dropped bars (I need get bars and stem), Brooks B17 in Honey and handlebar tape & cable housing, etc., in colors to compliment that (frame is bright red). Plan to reuse the original 50.4mm BCD Nervar cranks, repurposed for single 1/8” chainring. Front hub is a hi-flange Campy Record track hub I already have; I figure aesthetically the flange size might (very) roughly approximate the IGH on the rear. 700C is planned but I might rethink 650B. Frame has room for 700Cx30mm tires, I know as I very briefly had the bike up and running with a set of those on it… but what’s the max I can run if I want fenders? Unknown at this time. Unsure on brakes but I do have some old Campys here. Type an location of shifter is also a future decision.

Anyway, everything depends on the rear hub.
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Old 05-16-22, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
But reading about a bit, some IGH's have the 1:1 gear in 1st (lowest) gear, some have 1:1 in a much higher gear.
Fun fact: neither the Shimano Nexus 7 nor the Alfine 11 IGHs have a true 1:1, direct drive gear ratio. They both simulate 1:1 by two-stage compounding down and back up!

Do I understand correctly that friction losses on IGH's are on the 1:1 gear, and losses increase in others?
Theoretically, yes. In actual practice, yeah, but I think it's not that big a deal (others disagree).

Fun fact: the efficiencies vary among derailleur gear ratios, but nobody ever worries about it.

There have been posters who had the ratios and compounding explained to them about a particular IGH, then went and rode the bike and by golly! they could feel the various inefficiencies in the gears just the way it had been explained to them! Except...the ratios and compounding were explained wrong and what they were 'feeling' was all in their mind.

The Sturmey-Archer 8 is designed for the rider to be in the most efficient ratios when riding uphill/with a load/against the wind. A design compromise, yes, but certainly not a horrible one.

So I was thinking set up the gearing with my "flat and level" gear at 1:1, leaving 1 or 2 gears higher, and the others reserved as climbing gears. Is there a fundamental flaw in that plan?
That's the traditional, time-tested IGH set-up for the last 119 years. With a three-speed hub, Sheldon suggested setting the top gear for level riding and leaving two below for climbs/wind.

Say, willing to respace the rear OLD on that '74 Falcon?

Last edited by tcs; 05-16-22 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 05-16-22, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
Thanks -- whichever question you were answering.

A while back I found and copied this from the internet somewhere: "The internal planetary gear hubs measured were the Shimano Alfine 11, Rohloff 500/14 Speedhub, SRAM Dual-Drive, and the Sturmey Archer X-RK8(W). In addition a single-speed direct chain drive, a single-speed belt drive, and a 7-speed derailleur system were measured. The efficiency of the Shimano Alfine ranged from 90.4% to 96.6%. The efficiency of the Rohloff speed hub ranged from 95.8% to 99.5%. The efficiency of the Sturmey Archer hub ranged from 84.6% to 99.8%. The efficiency of the single speed chain drive was found to be 99.71% and the belt drive 98.0%. The efficiency of the 7-speed derailleur ranged from 97.7% to 99.4%. These values found for efficiency are comparable to other studies." That 84.6% on the S-A hub scares me a bit, unless it's on a granny gear I'll rarely use... that's what I am trying to find out... how to get a reasonable range of gears, and specifically minimize losses in the "sweet spot" of gearing where I spend most of my time.
My 'No' is that there is not a fundamental flaw in your plan

The only exception IME/IMO is 'unless you get an Alfine 11-speed' which IMO is a poorly designed hub. I also found that Shimano would not support its being fixed when it developed problems, which seems very likely.

The efficiency thing IME isn't a worry. If you go with a vintage Sturmey Archer you'll find them as free in any gear as the best Campagnolo hub made. The efficiency drops with more and more gears, but I can tell you that in the case of the Rohloff, which arguably is the ultimate IGH and is also the least efficient, that two variables exist that don't get the attention they should and apply to any IGH.

The first is the IGHs take a bit of break-in. The Rohloff needs about 700 miles to really free up IME. They are never measured after break-in; apparently only right out of the box. The second is that if there is any dirt or the like to mess with your derailleur system its efficiency drops to below that of the Rohloff's measured numbers. So to really have the numbers you quoted be a thing, you have to really be on top of your maintenance. One gummy jockey wheel or slightly gummed up chain can mess with it enough that even a Rohloff is more efficient.

My only other advice is research your IGH prior to purchase. If getting an 8-speed my choice would be the Shimano Alfine (its as good as the 11-speed is bad if that make any sense).

Any IGH can be shifted without loosing cadence. You have to practice a bit but the trick is to shift when one of your feet is at 12 o'clock in its stroke- IOW when its torque is least. The amount of time you spend servicing things is reduced and its nice to shift quickly at any speed including a dead stop. IME the British SA hubs are designed to shift while peddling. This is particularly true of the 4 and 5 speed hubs.
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Old 05-16-22, 11:04 AM
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One thing that might help guide your decision are the shifters. Most IGHs are used with upright instead of drop bars so most shifters are designed accordingly. In other words most don't work well with drop bars. Sturmey Archer has a variety of shifters for their 3 speed hubs including one that can go one a down tube shifter boss. They have a bar end model too.

Because IGH shifting is so convenient when coasting or standing still, I find I like more than just a 3 speed. The joke about 3 speeds I heard on Ragbrai one time was "3 speed hub gearing, too high, too low and not quite right".
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Old 05-16-22, 08:36 PM
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For a classic&vintage choice, how about a Sturmey-Archer FW four speed?
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Old 05-16-22, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
The goal is my particular take on a British “fast tourer” but I am not following any particular rules. Dropped bars (I need get bars and stem), Brooks B17 in Honey and handlebar tape & cable housing, etc., in colors to compliment that (frame is bright red). Plan to reuse the original 50.4mm BCD Nervar cranks, repurposed for single 1/8” chainring. Front hub is a hi-flange Campy Record track hub I already have; I figure aesthetically the flange size might (very) roughly approximate the IGH on the rear. 700C is planned but I might rethink 650B. Frame has room for 700Cx30mm tires, I know as I very briefly had the bike up and running with a set of those on it… but what’s the max I can run if I want fenders? Unknown at this time. Unsure on brakes but I do have some old Campys here. Type an location of shifter is also a future decision.

Anyway, everything depends on the rear hub.

Sturmey 8-speed needs a small chainring up front. I have one on my 1971 Raleigh International, which is my take on a lighter and livelier Sports for city commuting and errands. Pana-Sanyo dynamo front hub, Origin8 crankset, Mafac Racers, 35c Páselas. The Sturmey’s a fine hub, and sorry but all the measures of efficiency are lost on me. Especially when I have it loaded with groceries or my work gear
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Old 05-16-22, 11:40 PM
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8 speed Shimano Alfine and shifters; Brooks saddle; North Roads bars. I think you will like it.


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Old 05-16-22, 11:40 PM
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A lot of hogwash in this thread. LOL. I have a SA RD3, XL-RD5w, Nexus 7i with deplorable roller brake, and Rohloff14 with disc brake.
I just rode my 50 lb CCM 3 speed 92 miles the first full day ride this year. It hums along around 14 mph just fine. GIs are 47/ 63/ 84. Any other gear range is a stupid idea.
The fastest and easiest by far is the older SA 5w with finicky shifting. Efficiency is 96/ 97% at least, there are gaps between some gears of course. It has done 46 mph and my longest ride at 133.6 miles. R14 would only do 43 on the same hill.
The R14 does take thousands of miles to loosen up all the seals. The bike is 78 lbs most of the time. I go 16 mph a lot of the time with medium effort. IMO, the efficiency is 94 to 96% like often stated. The $$$ is 100% JUSTIFIED. I did 2 tours at 120 lbs, 8,100 miles. I didn't see any deraileur tour bikes passing me. Funny how it's slagged by guys with $10,000 CF racers that can't carry a box of kleenex. LOL
The Nexus 7i is less efficient but the best for shifting in traffic, with a 2 trigger shifter. The 7 gears are perfectly spaced, with 3 GI less on the top than the SA 5w. With a disc brake it should be closer to the SA hubs.
The flaw with the SA 8 is the biggest gap at the bottom and top. So gears 1 to 2 would have about 33 GI then 43 GI. The 5w is the opposite with 17% from 1 to 2nd.
I absolutely love my SA XL-FDD dyno drum brake front hubs. Best bike part ever made.
>>> Shifting any IGH with any load is STUPID. That's why cars have a CLUTCH.

But anyway, your 1974 bike has 120 mm dropouts.

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Old 05-16-22, 11:44 PM
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Please, let me know what is "hogwash" and what is truth. I'd like to know.

Tell us about your Rolhoff experience. Are they worth the money?
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Old 05-17-22, 10:31 AM
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Interesting! I read this about the Shimano Nexus SG-C3000-7R 7-Speed Internally Geared 36h Rear Hub: “Not intended for off-road use as standing on the pedals, riding up steep hills or using an too low of a gear ratio may damage the pawls inside the hub" Uh, that sounds like it would not hold up if I rode it fast/hard.

Originally Posted by tcs
Fun fact: neither the Shimano Nexus 7 nor the Alfine 11 IGHs have a true 1:1, direct drive gear ratio. They both simulate 1:1 by two-stage compounding down and back up! Fun fact: the efficiencies vary among derailleur gear ratios, but nobody ever worries about it. There have been posters who had the ratios and compounding explained to them about a particular IGH, then went and rode the bike and by golly! they could feel the various inefficiencies in the gears just the way it had been explained to them! Except...the ratios and compounding were explained wrong and what they were 'feeling' was all in their mind. The Sturmey-Archer 8 is designed for the rider to be in the most efficient ratios when riding uphill/with a load/against the wind. A design compromise, yes, but certainly not a horrible one. Say, willing to respace the rear OLD on that '74 Falcon?
I figure I should be able to handle some minor variations in efficiency between gears -- just don't want to complete the bike only to find most of the gears intolerable to ride. Well, I am asking questions; might get enough answer to make a choice I can live with.

Yes, this will be my first time cold-setting a frame, almost certainly. That said, I found THIS HUB and I see it's made in 120mm, that would be a bonus. Alas, on that site out of stock -- then again, on that site almost all hubs are out of stock!

Originally Posted by Salubrious
My 'No' is that there is not a fundamental flaw in your plan The only exception IME/IMO is 'unless you get an Alfine 11-speed' which IMO is a poorly designed hub. I also found that Shimano would not support its being fixed when it developed problems, which seems very likely. The efficiency thing IME isn't a worry. If you go with a vintage Sturmey Archer you'll find them as free in any gear as the best Campagnolo hub made. The efficiency drops with more and more gears, but I can tell you that in the case of the Rohloff, which arguably is the ultimate IGH and is also the least efficient, that two variables exist that don't get the attention they should and apply to any IGH. The first is the IGHs take a bit of break-in. The Rohloff needs about 700 miles to really free up IME. They are never measured after break-in; apparently only right out of the box. The second is that if there is any dirt or the like to mess with your derailleur system its efficiency drops to below that of the Rohloff's measured numbers. So to really have the numbers you quoted be a thing, you have to really be on top of your maintenance. One gummy jockey wheel or slightly gummed up chain can mess with it enough that even a Rohloff is more efficient. My only other advice is research your IGH prior to purchase. If getting an 8-speed my choice would be the Shimano Alfine (its as good as the 11-speed is bad if that make any sense). Any IGH can be shifted without loosing cadence. You have to practice a bit but the trick is to shift when one of your feet is at 12 o'clock in its stroke- IOW when its torque is least. The amount of time you spend servicing things is reduced and its nice to shift quickly at any speed including a dead stop. IME the British SA hubs are designed to shift while peddling. This is particularly true of the 4 and 5 speed hubs.
Thanks for the clarification! Sounds like I should cross the Alfine 11 speed off the list. I think the sweet spot for me is 5 to 8 speeds anyway, this should allow a wide range of terrain except mountains.

Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
One thing that might help guide your decision are the shifters. Most IGHs are used with upright instead of drop bars so most shifters are designed accordingly. In other words most don't work well with drop bars. Sturmey Archer has a variety of shifters for their 3 speed hubs including one that can go one a down tube shifter boss. They have a bar end model too..
I can be flexible, was actually thinking about a twist grip at the end of drop bars. Hmm, does a thumb shifter designed for upright bars fit the same boss as downtube friction shifters?

Originally Posted by ascherer
Sturmey 8-speed needs a small chainring up front. I have one on my 1971 Raleigh International, which is my take on a lighter and livelier Sports for city commuting and errands. Pana-Sanyo dynamo front hub, Origin8 crankset, Mafac Racers, 35c Páselas. The Sturmey’s a fine hub, and sorry but all the measures of efficiency are lost on me. Especially when I have it loaded with groceries or my work gear
Presuming I can find the correct chainrings, it might look odd but perhaps that is OK. Again, I plan 50.4BCD

Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53
A lot of hogwash in this thread. LOL. I have a SA RD3, XL-RD5w, Nexus 7i with deplorable roller brake, and Rohloff14 with disc brake. I just rode my 50 lb CCM 3 speed 92 miles the first full day ride this year. It hums along around 14 mph just fine. GIs are 47/ 63/ 84. Any other gear range is a stupid idea. The fastest and easiest by far is the older SA 5w with finicky shifting. Efficiency is 96/ 97% at least, there are gaps between some gears of course. It has done 46 mph and my longest ride at 133.6 miles. R14 would only do 43 on the same hill. The R14 does take thousands of miles to loosen up all the seals. The bike is 78 lbs most of the time. I go 16 mph a lot of the time with medium effort. IMO, the efficiency is 94 to 96% like often stated. The $$$ is 100% JUSTIFIED. I did 2 tours at 120 lbs, 8,100 miles. I didn't see any deraileur tour bikes passing me. Funny how it's slagged by guys with $10,000 CF racers that can't carry a box of kleenex. LOL
The Nexus 7i is less efficient but the best for shifting in traffic, with a 2 trigger shifter. The 7 gears are perfectly spaced, with 3 GI less on the top than the SA 5w. With a disc brake it should be closer to the SA hubs. The flaw with the SA 8 is the biggest gap at the bottom and top. So gears 1 to 2 would have about 33 GI then 45 GI. The 5w is the opposite with 17% from 1 to 2nd. I absolutely love my SA XL-FDD dyno drum brake front hubs. Best bike part ever made.
>>> Shifting any IGH with any load is STUPID. That's why cars have a CLUTCH. But anyway, your 1974 bike has 120 mm dropouts.
Sounds like you have some experience here. But, yeah, exactly what here qualifies as hogwash? Inquiring minds want to know.

Pretty sure I just won't drop the $1500 for a Rohloff. That enough for me to build/restore several bikes, difficult to justify. If it was to be my only bike-- yeah.
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Old 05-17-22, 11:25 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53
A lot of hogwash in this thread. LOL. I have a SA RD3, XL-RD5w, Nexus 7i with deplorable roller brake, and Rohloff14 with disc brake.
I just rode my 50 lb CCM 3 speed 92 miles the first full day ride this year. It hums along around 14 mph just fine. GIs are 47/ 63/ 84. Any other gear range is a stupid idea.
The fastest and easiest by far is the older SA 5w with finicky shifting. Efficiency is 96/ 97% at least, there are gaps between some gears of course. It has done 46 mph and my longest ride at 133.6 miles. R14 would only do 43 on the same hill.
The R14 does take thousands of miles to loosen up all the seals. The bike is 78 lbs most of the time. I go 16 mph a lot of the time with medium effort. IMO, the efficiency is 94 to 96% like often stated. The $$$ is 100% JUSTIFIED. I did 2 tours at 120 lbs, 8,100 miles. I didn't see any deraileur tour bikes passing me. Funny how it's slagged by guys with $10,000 CF racers that can't carry a box of kleenex. LOL
The Nexus 7i is less efficient but the best for shifting in traffic, with a 2 trigger shifter. The 7 gears are perfectly spaced, with 3 GI less on the top than the SA 5w. With a disc brake it should be closer to the SA hubs.
The flaw with the SA 8 is the biggest gap at the bottom and top. So gears 1 to 2 would have about 33 GI then 45 GI. The 5w is the opposite with 17% from 1 to 2nd.
I absolutely love my SA XL-FDD dyno drum brake front hubs. Best bike part ever made.
>>> Shifting any IGH with any load is STUPID. That's why cars have a CLUTCH.

But anyway, your 1974 bike has 120 mm dropouts.
My road bike (Anderson with Reynolds 953 tubing) equipped with the Rohloff weighs 20 pounds sans pedals. It was custom built for the hub.
My experience of break in is between 500 and 700 miles.

Originally Posted by Bad Lag
Please, let me know what is "hogwash" and what is truth. I'd like to know.

Tell us about your Rolhoff experience. Are they worth the money?
Yes. I rode from Banff to the Brush Mountain Lodge in northern Colorado on the Tour Divide route back in 2019. I was riding a Jones Plus LWB. The hub had about 700 miles on it prior to the ride, so it had already been broken-in. In a nutshell, despite the Tour Divide's propensity for eating up expensive bike parts, the Rohloff took it without any issues. The only tricky bit I've run into is you have to be careful when installing the filler plug to make sure its got a bit of Teflon tape on it so it does not leak. These days I've gone to using belt drive with it. You can run low belt tension if you mount a snubber in the rear to prevent the belt from wandering off of the rear sprocket. This setup is care free and withstands water, mud, sand and the like without the need for service. If it gets squeaky I use a bit of a hotel soap bar as a treatment and it shuts right up. You don't need to stop pedaling to shift; the trick is to shift at the top of the stroke. When I start from a dead stop, I start in a low gear and steadily advance the shift, keeping my cadence within a fairly tight range. The hub is slightly noisier in the lower range, especially in 7th gear.
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Old 05-17-22, 11:46 AM
  #20  
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I don't have near the experience some of these guys have but I do have two bikes with old sturmey 3 speed hubs. One has multiple chainrings. In both cases the hubs are terrific. Very efficient in any gear and the best coasting hubs I ever ride. That sturmey click is such a pretty sound. My supercourse has 40.5-54-72 gearing and while that seems low it sure makes hills easy. My competition has a 21 on the hub with 26-40-46 on the crank. Have to be careful about the really low gears. The hub has limitations but it's a great system.

Competition

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Old 05-17-22, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
Presuming I can find the correct chainrings, it might look odd but perhaps that is OK.
When I built my XRK8 in 2009, others were shocked by the appearance of the small chain wheel, with comments varying from 'looks odd' to 'I threw up in my mouth'. These days, with small chainrings on 1Xs and fatbikes, nobody looks twice at it. #bikefashion



The shifter is a Jtek bar end, a version that hasn't been offered in several years. It's CNC manufactured & they should still have the machining codes. An inquiry might prompt a special build???

Last edited by tcs; 05-17-22 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 05-17-22, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
I don't have nearly the experience some of these guys have but I do have two bikes with old Sturmey 3-speed hubs.
What Classic&Vintage fan doesn't love old Sturmeys?

Here's my Mike Melton fitted with a pre-war (no date stamp) AW:

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Old 05-17-22, 12:36 PM
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Ach! In-line cable adjuster. Very handy.

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Old 05-17-22, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs
Ach! In-line cable adjuster. Very handy.

Cool
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Old 05-18-22, 09:11 AM
  #25  
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I had a bike with a Shimano 7 spd. Worked well for hilly urban use and I could not tell a difference in efficiency between different gears, However, the right cone got pitted badly after 10K miles or so, and Shimano being Shimano, there were several revisions of the hub since I purchased it and the part was not available. The pitting got so bad that I broke a ball, and the hub went into the recycling bin. Also, I broke spokes at the rim until I relaced 2x; this is odd because there are lots of similar hubs out there that are 3x with no apparent problems.

I now have a Rohloff bike built as a heavy tour/trekking bike. After 20K miles on it, the sting of high initial cost has faded.
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