irreverentskier

Folks - I'm shopping the Renegade S3 and I'm kind of between sizes... the 51 appears (on paper, and in comparison to other bikes I've test ridden with similar specs to be slightly under-sized), and the 54 seems to be just very slightly oversized. I am 5'6" (168cm), with a PBH of just under 31" (790mm) when standing barefoot - so I'm a short guy, with short legs, and long-ish torso, in good physical shape (I ski, A LOT, ride bikes relatively little but I want to ride more).

The Renegade comes in two sizes that might fit me (51cm, and 54 cm, kind of a big jump between sizes - that's Jamis hating short folks I guess).

The 54: After riding a half dozen other bikes I rode the S4 version of the Renegade in a 54cm frame and fell in love. Great bike, the 54 rides amazingly well. Very comfortable when I'm on it and riding. But, when stopped, I have to get off the saddle and put one foot down to be comfortable (this isn't hard for me to do, but I'm not comfortable just hanging out on the saddle at a stop). I can stand over the top tube flat-footed, but only just barely. The standover height of the 54cm frame is 779mm. But again, when riding everything fits beautifully well.

The 51: I haven't ridden the 51, and it would have to be ordered. It would appear to be quite comfortable for me as far as the standover at 748, but I'm concerned that with a longer torso the reach/toptube length may be a bit cramped, especially since I find the 54 so comfortable. I have to put in a deposit to order it so, I'm kind of hesitant since I can get the 54 and know that it'll ride beautifully, and I just have to get off the saddle at every stop.

Both bikes would have to be ordered in the S3 variant that I want, but I have another slightly undersized bike that I can ride in the meantime (a Dr. Dew in medium size, it has a reach of 430mm, and standover of 728mm - a very comfortably low standover height for me, it doesn't seem too cramped). I have also ridden a Jamis Coda in 17", with a reach of 396mm it definitely felt cramped in the cockpit, but the 19" was also clearly a touch too big in standover.

What would folks suggest? Get longer arms? Get the 51 and slightly longer stem? Or the 54 and a top tube pad to protect my junk in the event I wind up hitting the top tube at some point? Jamis' sizing guidance indicates that the cutoff between sizes is 5'5"... I'm 5'6" but with kind of short legs.

The bike would be used for Houston commuting and some of the easier bike trails around Houston's memorial park (trails that are mostly green and blue, with a couple of black diamonds, not sure what the bike's going to be capable of with the stock Riddler 37c tires, but I think I can probably fit 50mm tires on it).

Thanks for your thoughts, cheers,

Skier

icemilkcoffee 

On a road bike, if you clear the top tube flat footed then you’re golden.

mstateglfr 

1- Jamis doesn't hare short people. It is one of the few brands that uses size specific tubing and also uses multiple fork rakes to ensure smaller frames ride similar to larger frames.

2- of course you should get off the saddle when stopped. That's just how a road bike/fitness bike/gravel bike is used. If you are able to put a foot down when you are sitting on the saddle, the bike almost for sure doesn't fit you properly.

3- do you plan to ride the bike more or less frequently than stand over the bike? If you plan to ride it more than stand over it, then get the bike size that fits you best when riding.

t2p

54 cm bike is too large for 5’6” person

mstateglfr 

Jamis disagrees with you since that bike in that size is designed for people in the 5'5 to 5'9 range.

t2p

if you can swing some extra $ - consider the S2

S2 is preferred over the S3 :

631 frame vs 520 frame

GRX600 11 speed vs GRX400 10 speed

t2p

well then Mr Jamis and I will just have to agree to disagree

I’m 5’6” - the number of 54 cm bikes I could fit / ride well :

irreverentskier

This is a thoughtful comment, and I appreciate it... I might be short-sighted on some of this, feel free to let me know if you think so... I did consider the S2. However, the reason I'm currently shying away from it in favor of the S3 is gearing. The gearing on the S2 is similar to the Kona Libre (another bike I rode and considered). I felt that the first 5 or 6 gears on the Libre were so comically low that I doubted I would ever use them, essentially making it a 5-speed bicycle. Houston is VERY flat, and the single 40t chainring on the S2 seems like it would be a little light for tooling around town. I'm no expert on this but the S3 covers all the gearing range that the S2 covers, plus a little on the low side, and plus a lot on the high side.


The S2 is also +11mm in standover height (not sure if this is an error or not since the tires are only 3mm bigger), but the geometry is slightly different in other areas too (the headtube is 19mm longer, for example in the 54cm S2 than the S3)... But, I would have been happy to get the S2 but for these two primary concerns... and I was tempted by the S2 even with these concerns because the color is way better!

irreverentskier

Is your build similar to mine - short legs, long torso?

irreverentskier

Thanks, I guess this is what I was curious about... if the Renegade should fit much like a road bike, but it seems the consensus is YES.

t2p

sorta / kinda

I believe many males are built this way - while females tend to have the longer legs with shorter torso

MarcusT

It is easier to fit a frame that is smaller, than a larger frame. Set back seat posts, longer stems, etc. A frame that is too large, nothing can be done

irreverentskier

This makes a lot of sense too, thanks.

Trakhak

That's a persistent myth. Or to put it another way, a myth. Georgena Terry, noted for having pioneered female-specific diamond frame bike designs, consulted U.S. military body proportion statistics and confirmed that women tend to have shorter legs and longer torsos than men.

The myth probably resulted from the fact that most women with slender legs have visibly less muscle at the top of their thighs than most men, making their legs appear longer.

shelbyfv

I agree with your preference of the 2X over the 1X, given your planned use. The size choice isn't as clear, especially since you have comfortably ridden the larger size. The 51 comes with a 70mm stem so you do have the ability to go another 20-30mm w/o screwing up the handling. As pointed out above, there's not much you can do to make the 54 fit smaller. Nice choice of bike, wish my LBS carried Jamis.

mstateglfr 

As a side conversation- I really love the idea of Jamis as a brand and the Renegade series has been a great option for many years now.
The fact that you can only go 1x in the nicer steel frame is really disappointing. That just excludes a lot of people from even considering the bike. It seems short sighted.

GamblerGORD53

Get the 54 for sure. The 51 is way too small. 40 mm standover drop is HUGE. Get off the saddle if stopping for more than a few seconds.
If all else fails, you can wear thicker shoes on flat pedals. A shorter stem is a far better solution than a gangly one.

jon c. 

Based on your description, it sounds like the 54 is just exactly perfect.

If you love the ride, buy the bike. There is nothing more important than feeling good when you're riding.

(And there's nothing wrong with just clearing the top tube when standing. Even if you have to lean the bike a bit to achieve that.)

livedarklions

Well, OP has apparently found one. This thread isn't about you.

caloso

Without knowing anything about Jamis or its sizing, get a bike that fits you when you're riding it, not when you're stopped at a light. Even if you could touch both feet while still on the saddle, shuffling your tippy toes is a suboptimal way to get moving again.

When you stop, slide forward off the nose of the saddle and straddle the top tube. Rotate one pedal to the 1 o'clock position. When the light changes, stand on that pedal and then sit on the saddle in one motion, then put your other foot on the other pedal and away you go.

Or learn to trackstand.

Camilo

I love Jamis (have one) but I think you feel (and probably are) kind of not fiting perfectly with that bike. Have you looked at any others? A lot of gravel/all surface sort of bikes are made with a lower standover for given sizes. Might be worth looking further. Get something you're 100% sure of.

irreverentskier

Respectfully, I would disagree. I understand that the 1x granny gear drivetrain is popular right now, but the 2x drivetrain is a nice differentiator. The 1x folks have lots of granny options in steel (Genesis, Niner, Surly, All City, Kona, etc)... I doubt you can name another steel frame 2x with pretty good components and a 46t or larger front chainring for less than $3k (but please do if you can, as I’m shopping).

I think that the very low geared 1x drivetrains will be a short lived fad. Even for the folks who want a half dozen granny gear ratios, I doubt they actually use them all that much. I don’t drive my jeep around in 1st gear, even in the mountains, and I don’t need five additional gears that are almost as low as 1st.

Since the Renegades are sold out and back ordered, lots of folks seem to agree. But if there was a single 46t+ chainring, I’d test ride it.

mstateglfr 

Most of your post seems to actually agree with my prior comment so I am not sure why you start this post with declaring you disagree.

I simply think having a 1x and 2x option in the 631 tube frame would be nice. It sucks to have to go with 1x if you want that the 631 frame or that color frame.

Wildwood 

All this sizing guesswork is a bunch of bunk (54 v 51) without knowing how you ride comfortably on a bike.

irreverentskier

Maybe I misunderstood... I thought you were suggesting that the 2x should be nixed so folks could have 1x without getting the most expensive version... If that's not the case then I probably agree with you. I think ideally, Jamis would offer it as a frameset so people can build what they want.