Eric F 

Since I can't use it on my existing frame (as I understand it right now), and I'm not intending to buy a new MTB any time soon, it's kind of a moot point for my own personal use right now. The video I was was all about the benefits of the new system (hype!), but didn't comment about any downsides, and I haven't researched it any further yet. My initial impression is that they are "fixing" things that aren't really problems for most people. For performance and installation, it appears to be pretty slick...if you have a bike built for it. At this point, I'm not sold on it being the best thing ever. Maybe I will be proven wrong. If I was in the market for a new bike, and this drivetrain was an option on a bike I wanted....??? I don't know. I'm not a fan of all the proprietary requirements of the system, including chain.

EDIT: The new SRAM system is also heavier than the current XX1 AXS system.

seypat

Good analysis.

tomato coupe

So, when they release a new system in 3-4 years, the bike you're riding will just quit working, and you'll have to buy a new one?

Eric F 

Of course not. The issue would be for people who desire to run the newest gear, but currently have a frame that isn't compatible with the configuration required for it, because they created a new configuration requirement. My 2019 Trek is one of those bikes. Despite currently having a SRAM Eagle drivetrain, my frame does not have a UDH-standard rear end, and could not use the new SRAM parts. This is the nature of the bike industry, though. For example, rear end spacing standards have changed multiple times.

tomato coupe

But, if those people really desire to run the newest gear, aren't they going to get a whole new bike?

Eric F 

Not necessarily. If my bike current Trek had a UDH rear end (newer versions of my frame do), I might consider the new system as an e-shift upgrade option.

EDIT: My use of "might" above is really just theoretically speaking. I'm not currently convinced on the system being all that...with or without a bag of chips.

tomato coupe

As the owner of a manufacturing company, I am unmoved by customers that say they might consider buying something if it was made available. When pressed, they almost always give you reasons why they wouldn't actually buy the item under discussion -- they just want it to be available.

Eric F 

Fair enough.

seypat

That appears to be the BF way, at least from what I've read. Look at all the electronic vs mechanical vs mechanical discs vs hydraulic vs rim vs tubed vs tubeless vs carbon vs steel vs lube vs wax threads. Whenever something new comes out, you gotta get it because what is not the latest/greatest is so much worse it's useless.

Thank you BTW, for setting that up for me. I knew it wouldn't take long.

seypat

Seriously though, the bike industry isn't moving the direction I want/need it to go. Doubtful I'll get a new or even 1-2 year old bike in the future. Why? I'm just 1 person/consumer, so it really doesn't matter anyway. I'll have to keep the ones I've got working instead.

Daniel4

I've wasted a lot of money replacing mirrors and taillights.

I think I've lost three tailights because either the rubber mounting band, the light clip or the lens housing came loose. Sure, they look and feel secure when they are newly mounted but ride them through pot holes and rough asphalt and something will undo itself. Now I redundantly secure them with three elastic bands.

And then there's mirrors. I had a good cateye mirror for about twenty years until the mount broke. Then all of a sudden there was nothing available that had the right convex as the old one. Add to that the rubber mounting bands keep breaking. Then when I found the mirrycle, I bought two because it had the right convex and I was afraid that convexness would not be available again.

PeteHski

You seem convinced that they are out to get you. Now I appreciate innovation and believe that most changes are generally for the better (mtb evolution over the last 20 years has been pretty epic). I can see why SRAM have bitten the bullet here, it's a bit like when mtbs first moved away from standard headset sizes (which were woefully inadequate for hard mtb use). It makes backward compatibility a major issue at the time, but in the long run you get a better product if it sticks. SRAM are basically staking their future business on this becoming a major new standard. The fact that they are committed to it suggests it almost certainly will be. Hopefully it will be successful and no more bent/flexy hangers.

Meanwhile we are free to use our older frames for the next few decades with the drivetrain standard it came with. Compatible parts will be available for many years and will probably become cheaper as they are now not the latest/greatest spec. I'm not going to rush out and buy a new mtb frame for this, but my next bike will probably have this new drivetrain. I'd rather they move forward than just doing the same-old. If I buy a new car, I expect it to be incrementally better than my old one. I have the same expectation of my bicycles. I was discussing this with a bike engineer and we agreed that if you buy a new mtb roughly every 5 years, you will likely see some significant improvements. Obviously it's a non-linear curve, but as a general rule of thumb I think it's pretty good. The state-of-the-art mtb I bought back in 2004 rode like crap compared to the 2015 mtb I replaced it with. It was like something from another planet and better in every single way. My 2019 mtb was a much smaller step forward, but still a little better. I'll probably replace it in 2024/25 and that will be the end of cable shifting for me and probably mech hangers by the look of it!

PeteHski

Out of curiosity, do you ever try riding newer bikes to see how they may actually work for you? I realise you are a committed 3x drivetrain guy, but you might be surprised how good a modern, electronic 1x or 2x actually is. They would certainly resolve your issues with mechanical shifting.

Lombard

You work for Big Electronic Group Set, right?

PeteHski

And Big Carbon, Big Tubeless in my spare time.

livedarklions

Sorry, but we seem to be talking past each other. I just don't get why you would need to buy a new frame to accommodate the new hanger system rather than just foregoing the "upgrade" entirely. Manufacturers make lots of stuff I end up deciding not to buy, I can't see how that's a middle finger.

I think the bigger risk in being an early adopter would be that if there aren't enough frames being manufactured, SRAM may give up on the line completely and you won't be able to get replacement parts--I assume these are going to need special hubs and axles (cassettes?), and there could be unforeseen problems with these novel items that could make the replacement an issue much earlier than something with a tried and true approach.

livedarklions

I seriously think that attitude is represented by such a small percentage of the market as to be completely irrelevant.

PeteHski

Yep, we are free to simply ignore new stuff if we don't like it. The older standards are supported pretty much forever in one way or another. It's still feasible to service a bike from 20+ years ago and it's usually cheaper.

big john

BF threads seem to be the opposite of that, at least from what I've read. Sure, some people say they like some new tech, discs, DI2, whatever, but few will say you have to have it.

Mostly what happens is every retrogrouch, tightwad, and anti-anything-new person will appear and crap all over the new stuff and say how their 1980 Whatever bike is just as good as a new carbon wonderbike and geez Eddy won on a steel bike and rim brakes are already too strong and who needs all those gears and what if your shifter battery goes dead and gravel bikes are not a thing and....you get the point.

shelbyfv

My current most expensive disappointments- 1) Fancy rain jacket. I don't choose to ride in the rain and it was too bulky to carry for the unexpected. 2) SPD-SL shoes and pedals. I gave them about 3 months then went back to SPD. That one was a surprise, I expected to like them. 3) Mini-Vs. Don't hear about them much anymore but they were a thing in the early days of gravel. Pain in the butt to set up and IMO no better braking than the stock cantis.

Eric F 

From what I can tell, it seems the new "T-type" Eagle drivetrain does not require new hubs or axles (they're saving that one for later - lol), only a frame built with a UDH-spec rear end. It seems that some existing Eagle parts are compatible with the T-type system, but not the other way around. Being that the UDH-spec rear end (with the optional hanger) doesn't exclude the use of other manufacturers' components, or older SRAM, I would expect that this configuration will become available on more bikes in the coming years.

SRAM is definitely pushing this system hard. Yesterday - right on cue - top SRAM-sponsored MTB racers dropped social media posts pimping the benefits of the new system, and showing it off with their new race bikes...
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqDS6..._web_copy_link

Instagram

Instagram

Personally, I'm hoping this new system means a price drop on last year's AXS upgrade kit - LOL.

Eric F 

Mini-Vs eliminated the major advantage of V-brakes - more leverage. Do away with that leverage, and you are right back to cantilever territory.

terrymorse 

Compatible parts for many years, eh?

It's already hard to find decent 10-speed Shimano components, and quality rim-brake wheel set selections are becoming thin.

tomato coupe

Zipp, ENVE, BlackInc, Hunt, Princeton, Reynolds, HED, Fulcrum, Campy all make rim brake wheels. And there are a lot of places that will build a set of rim brake wheels for you ...

seypat

Had an issue pop up. Where was I/we?

I do, at least go in to the store and climb aboard. Unfortunately, I'm built like your countryman Chris Hoye. A little shorter, but every bit as stout. The newer frames are getting too thick/wide, particularly on the TT behind the head tube. There are some clearance issues now unless I have a really wide Q factor.

Eric F explained in one of his posts. I would not upgrade as long as I knew there were plenty of parts out there for my current system. But, as post 974 pointed out, that might not be the case.