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Old 05-14-18, 08:20 PM
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Safety

after the tragic murder of the 2 cyclists in Mexico recently, I thought of a question.
do you think it is safer to travel on routes that aren’t well publicized and used very often for touring or vise versa?
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Old 05-14-18, 08:33 PM
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I'm not too worried about the people in the USA, Canada, or most of Europe. The bigger risk would be accidents, and low traffic routes would be best for riding safety.

I'm not sure about touring in Mexico, Central, and South America. Or other 3rd world nations. There would likely be benefits of staying in hotels, or at least organized campgrounds rather than attempting to wild camp.
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Old 05-14-18, 08:40 PM
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Except in unusual circumstances, the biggest danger to cyclists in virtually always motor vehicle traffic.
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Old 05-14-18, 08:43 PM
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It is difficult to tell where/ when crime lurks, The area where the two tourists were killed is really crime ridden (highly recommend avoiding extreme southern Mexico) I had been reading Brian Becker's journal on crazy guy on a bike (he was in she same area), and had two bandits come out from the roadside wielding large sticks. He was lucky to get away with some bruises on his back, a dented fender and wheel out of true.
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Old 05-15-18, 05:14 AM
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As others have mentioned, I think it is very context dependent based on country and even regions within a country. I also agree that motor vehicle traffic plays a huge role on risks.

While travel warnings need to be taken with grain of salt(*), I have usually looked at both U.S. State Department and UK foreign ministry prior to my travels. For example here is UK security advice for the USA: https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-ad...y-and-security with some pretty specific advice about the Orlando airport and general advice for British motorists to "try to stay on main roads and use well-lit car parks. If you’re hit while driving, indicate to the other driver to follow you to a public place and call 911 for the police." when in the USA.

What I like about the UK are some of their maps. For example Colombia
As a whole, I believe Colombia is lower risk now than several years ago (and of its reputation based on that time). Risks do vary in different parts of the country and occasional incidents were reported close to my travels (e.g. an Italian roadside holdup on the FB Alaska to Patagonia group in ~Feb 2017 a few months before I cycled in April/May 2017 and a foreign kidnapping near the Panama border when I was in the country). Overall I tried to stay in green zones including that main road from Popayan/Pasto/Ipiales but didn't pay as much attention to route close to Medellin.

Official travel summaries, cyclist journals, internet news were all factors for reasons beyond just security that I took into account on my travels and then adjusted accordingly. One can still have wrong place/wrong time incidents most anywhere but I had my antenna up extra if there were advisories or recent incidents in an area. One approach was sometimes taking a more direct route through riskier area (often more direct was larger roads but not always) but it also sometimes meant some care in where I stayed (camping/hotel/etc).

(*) - correlation analysis between travel warnings and incidents: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...rican-tourists

Last edited by mev; 05-15-18 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 05-15-18, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Roadworx
after the tragic murder of the 2 cyclists in Mexico recently, I thought of a question.
do you think it is safer to travel on routes that aren’t well publicized and used very often for touring or vise versa?
It depends on the region. I have no qualms about most places in Asia-Pacific. I'd avoid Mindanao, and some parts of Sumatra, but that would be about it.
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Old 05-15-18, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
I'm not too worried about the people in the USA, Canada, or most of Europe. The bigger risk would be accidents, and low traffic routes would be best for riding safety.

I'm not sure about touring in Mexico, Central, and South America. Or other 3rd world nations. There would likely be benefits of staying in hotels, or at least organized campgrounds rather than attempting to wild camp.
I would add the exception of large cities in USA, Canada and Europe. You need to be aware of where you are going within the city and be on your guard.
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Old 05-15-18, 08:48 AM
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No issues in New England for me, most folks are nice enough. My experience is that people find folks riding a bike are approachable and not that threatening.
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Old 05-15-18, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Roadworx
after the tragic murder of the 2 cyclists in Mexico recently, I thought of a question.
do you think it is safer to travel on routes that aren’t well publicized and used very often for touring or vise versa?
it seems like a real tossup doesnt it? Generally Ive avoided "tourist" areas in Latin America, for a number of reasons, one of which is I figure robbers will be more where there are more profitable pickings.
Having taken main roads , direct routes , where it felt safer simply because more people are around, but then you get the "more traffic" issue, which is really the much higher risk of killing you....
In quiet , far off country roads, its , well, quiet, which is nice, but then would make it a lot easier to rob someone with hardly anyone around.
But then you get to see "real life" and meet wonderful people.
Not an easy answer here Mr or Mrs new to the forum person.
touch wood touch wood touch wood

so have you toured before? Have you been on the forum before? What are your thoughts on the question from your experience travelling, if you have travelled that is.
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Old 05-16-18, 05:15 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by djb
so have you toured before? Have you been on the forum before? What are your thoughts on the question from your experience travelling, if you have travelled that is.
+1. Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 05-16-18, 08:05 AM
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As the world becomes more dangerous and chaotic it is wise to rethink touring plans. The English speaking countries are generally safe, as are Scandinavia and Northern Europe. The rest of the planet is less safe but it varies.
Even in the good old USA , there are bad places. Avoid the border regions and the inner cities.

In some places touring cyclist are seen as an easy mark, and they travel on predetermined routes, it is pretty easy to set up an ambush. Maybe take the bus on those places.
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Old 05-16-18, 08:31 AM
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Could be either. As others have mentioned, I am touring in areas that I'm not worrying about people intentionally harming me, so I'd stick to side routes because cars are a far bigger worry. If I were in an area where I were truly worried about intentional harm, mugging, kidnapping, etc., I'm not riding myself around on a bike, but if I were dumb enough to, I would be sticking to main routes.

Originally Posted by willibrord
In some places touring cyclist are seen as an easy mark, and they travel on predetermined routes, it is pretty easy to set up an ambush. Maybe take the bus on those places.
I would highly doubt the places one is worrying about an ambush are also places that see touring cyclists in any number.
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Old 05-16-18, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
Could be either. As others have mentioned, I am touring in areas that I'm not worrying about people intentionally harming me, so I'd stick to side routes because cars are a far bigger worry. If I were in an area where I were truly worried about intentional harm, mugging, kidnapping, etc., I'm not riding myself around on a bike, but if I were dumb enough to, I would be sticking to main routes.


I would highly doubt the places one is worrying about an ambush are also places that see touring cyclists in any number.
I think it was in Columbia , there was a thread last year about a number of touring cyclists being waylaid along a particular stretch of road, It was known to the long distance cycling community and discussed on various forums. I suspect there are other such places.
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Old 05-16-18, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Roadworx
after the tragic murder of the 2 cyclists in Mexico recently, I thought of a question.
do you think it is safer to travel on routes that aren’t well publicized and used very often for touring or vise versa?
Welcome to the forums, troll.
Care to exit trolldom and join the regulars here?
Then perhaps the next time you post, you would care to provide sensible context - as opposed to vague remarks like yours "the tragic murder of the 2 cyclists in Mexico"...

By the way, what made said murder tragic?
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Old 05-16-18, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord

Even in the good old USA , there are bad places. Avoid the border regions and the inner cities.
If I avoided touring in "inner cities" I would never be able to start and/or end a tour at my house, which I have done countless times without incident, including just last weekend. Walked back to my downtown office a few minutes ago and just happened to see a woman riding solo fully loaded. Only place someone tried to steal anything from me was in Dubois, WY.
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Old 05-16-18, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
If I avoided touring in "inner cities" I would never be able to start and/or end a tour at my house, which I have done countless times without incident, including just last weekend. Walked back to my downtown office a few minutes ago and just happened to see a woman riding solo fully loaded. Only place someone tried to steal anything from me was in Dubois, WY.
Yep. Common sense is always warranted, but outside of a few select areas I wouldn't feel any more scared of people harming me riding around most of Detroit than I would be getting hit by a car. The odds of random crime in Canada and US is rather minimal, even in "danger" zones.

I used to ride through some pretty sketch parts of Pontiac, which is no green field of a place. Probably worse that Detroit on the whole for crime. Never once felt in danger.
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Old 05-16-18, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
If I avoided touring in "inner cities" I would never be able to start and/or end a tour at my house, which I have done countless times without incident, including just last weekend. Walked back to my downtown office a few minutes ago and just happened to see a woman riding solo fully loaded. Only place someone tried to steal anything from me was in Dubois, WY.
Then again it is your city. You likely know good streets from bad streets. You know where you are going and what to look for around you. Not so easy in a strange city.

I ride through neighborhoods all the time in Pittsburgh that I have been told by other people I should not be riding there. But I am used to it and know the neighborhoods, never had an issue.
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Old 05-16-18, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord
As the world becomes more dangerous and chaotic it is wise to rethink touring plans. The English speaking countries are generally safe, as are Scandinavia and Northern Europe. The rest of the planet is less safe but it varies.
Even in the good old USA , there are bad places. Avoid the border regions and the inner cities.

In some places touring cyclist are seen as an easy mark, and they travel on predetermined routes, it is pretty easy to set up an ambush. Maybe take the bus on those places.
I know I'm feeding the thread starter troll (who I suspect is a sockpuppet), but you've painted the world with an extremely wide brush. Have you ever toured in any countries other than "English speaking" and "Northern Europe"? I've toured in quite a few developing countries, and the few problems I've had were mainly in western Europe. One of the places where I felt the absolute safest was Chile. I do quite a bit of research before I choose a destination, as well as for selecting my routes. When I toured in Sri Lanka, the civil war was still going on there. But guide books, websites, ex-pats on the ground, and recent tourists all said that they felt quite safe and that fighting was restricted to two small portions of the country which were easily avoided. I never felt the slightest bit of danger or even discomfort while I was there. Some of the roads weren't in great condition (but others were fine), however it was one of my favorite destinations.

Originally Posted by willibrord
I think it was in Columbia , there was a thread last year about a number of touring cyclists being waylaid along a particular stretch of road, It was known to the long distance cycling community and discussed on various forums. I suspect there are other such places.
There was a thread started by the heroin-obsessed guy with a link for a map of Latin America marked at places where there had been incidents reported by cyclists. There appeared to be a hotspot along the northern Caribbean coast of Colombia. (Please note that it's spelled Colombia, not Columbia. Unfortunately this seems to be a common error.) I've been to Colombia and I hope to return. There are some parts of that beautiful country which I would avoid, but large portions which I'm eager to visit, both on and off my bike.

I don't know why this cycling forum attracts so many folks who seem to be irrationally afraid of so much of the world. Other cycling forums than I know have a much higher percentage of more adventurous folks. Sure, there are plenty of places where I wouldn't venture to at this time (e.g. Syria, Yemen, Venezuela). But there is so much of the world which is wonderful to see and experience, and I feel lucky that I've been able to see some of those places.
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Old 05-16-18, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by willibrord
As the world becomes more dangerous and chaotic it is wise to rethink touring plans. The English speaking countries are generally safe, as are Scandinavia and Northern Europe. The rest of the planet is less safe but it varies.
Even in the good old USA , there are bad places. Avoid the border regions and the inner cities.

In some places touring cyclist are seen as an easy mark, and they travel on predetermined routes, it is pretty easy to set up an ambush. Maybe take the bus on those places.
Hey willibord, I agree that the border region about an hour from my house is extremely dangerous, the mountains, the green fields, all them cows, and those two hippies, Ben and Jerry.
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Old 05-16-18, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by djb
Hey willibord, I agree that the border region about an hour from my house is extremely dangerous, the mountains, the green fields, all them cows, and those two hippies, Ben and Jerry.
I’m not sure where you are talking about, you live in Vermont?

A couple of of years ago, I was in Whitefish MT, near the northern terminus of the American portion of the Great Divide Mountain Cycling Route. The local rag had a long and interesting article about the increase in Border Patrol agents necessary to deal with increased border incursions from Canada, in the wilderness areas of the mountains around Glacier Park. Suspected jihadists , from Canada, there are madrassas in Canada and one of the big cities even has a Muslim mayor.
Not a huge risk but something to keep in mind. It’s possible start from Whitefish if you’re riding the Divide. Better safe than sorry.
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Old 05-16-18, 09:03 PM
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Oops sorry djb, Montreal, I missed that.

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Old 05-16-18, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by axolotl
I know I'm feeding the thread starter troll (who I suspect is a sockpuppet), but you've painted the world with an extremely wide brush. Have you ever toured in any countries other than "English speaking" and "Northern Europe"? I've toured in quite a few developing countries, and the few problems I've had were mainly in western Europe. One of the places where I felt the absolute safest was Chile. I do quite a bit of research before I choose a destination, as well as for selecting my routes. When I toured in Sri Lanka, the civil war was still going on there. But guide books, websites, ex-pats on the ground, and recent tourists all said that they felt quite safe and that fighting was restricted to two small portions of the country which were easily avoided. I never felt the slightest bit of danger or even discomfort while I was there. Some of the roads weren't in great condition (but others were fine), however it was one of my favorite destinations.


There was a thread started by the heroin-obsessed guy with a link for a map of Latin America marked at places where there had been incidents reported by cyclists. There appeared to be a hotspot along the northern Caribbean coast of Colombia. (Please note that it's spelled Colombia, not Columbia. Unfortunately this seems to be a common error.) I've been to Colombia and I hope to return. There are some parts of that beautiful country which I would avoid, but large portions which I'm eager to visit, both on and off my bike.

I don't know why this cycling forum attracts so many folks who seem to be irrationally afraid of so much of the world. Other cycling forums than I know have a much higher percentage of more adventurous folks. Sure, there are plenty of places where I wouldn't venture to at this time (e.g. Syria, Yemen, Venezuela). But there is so much of the world which is wonderful to see and experience, and I feel lucky that I've been able to see some of those places.
I have never toured outside the English speaking world or Northern Europe, although I have visited developing countries but not by bicycle.

i was planning to do the Baja Divide, but since it has been publicized, there have been a spate of robberies. Touring cyclists are easy prey. If cyclists want to tour in these countries, they should do their due diligence and be aware of the risks. That is all I am saying.
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Old 05-16-18, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by axolotl
I know I'm feeding the thread starter troll (who I suspect is a sockpuppet), but you've painted the world with an extremely wide brush. Have you ever toured in any countries other than "English speaking" and "Northern Europe"? I've toured in quite a few developing countries, and the few problems I've had were mainly in western Europe. One of the places where I felt the absolute safest was Chile. I do quite a bit of research before I choose a destination, as well as for selecting my routes. When I toured in Sri Lanka, the civil war was still going on there. But guide books, websites, ex-pats on the ground, and recent tourists all said that they felt quite safe and that fighting was restricted to two small portions of the country which were easily avoided. I never felt the slightest bit of danger or even discomfort while I was there. Some of the roads weren't in great condition (but others were fine), however it was one of my favorite destinations.


There was a thread started by the heroin-obsessed guy with a link for a map of Latin America marked at places where there had been incidents reported by cyclists. There appeared to be a hotspot along the northern Caribbean coast of Colombia. (Please note that it's spelled Colombia, not Columbia. Unfortunately this seems to be a common error.) I've been to Colombia and I hope to return. There are some parts of that beautiful country which I would avoid, but large portions which I'm eager to visit, both on and off my bike.

I don't know why this cycling forum attracts so many folks who seem to be irrationally afraid of so much of the world. Other cycling forums than I know have a much higher percentage of more adventurous folks. Sure, there are plenty of places where I wouldn't venture to at this time (e.g. Syria, Yemen, Venezuela). But there is so much of the world which is wonderful to see and experience, and I feel lucky that I've been able to see some of those places.
From the English broad brush, the spelling of Colombia (spelling it with a U is a sure red-flag that your knowledge is thin) and the excessive angst of those living in the West, these are all fair points.
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