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Handlebar Width?

Old 09-21-21, 10:18 AM
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Moisture
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Handlebar Width?

I saw a thread on this only for road bikes hence I'm making a new one here.

My current xc bike has 720mm. I've used 780mm before. I find them both to be way too wide. I like something about shoulder width (48cm?) Or wider, maybe up to 60cm. Would that work fine for trail riding?

For gravel bikes, im noticing flared drops any benefits? Would you prefer regular drop bars? Not sure if I'm a fan of this. I want my wrists to be in a neutral position and the hoods to be roughly 46 or 48cm apart as this is where I usually keep my hands.
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Old 09-21-21, 12:32 PM
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Nino takes the Scott 780mm bars and cuts them down to 680mm. Lee McCormick has this to say:
  • Pushing and pulling the bars as you ride a pump track or trail feature. While wide bars help you push the bars down, having too wide a bar limits your ability to pull up in the second part of the pump.
  • Pushing the bars forward as you drop into a technical trail feature. The wider the bar the less you can move your weight back.
  • Bike lean and grip while cornering. The wider the bars the less you can lean the bike. To try this for yourself put your arms out in front of you in line with your shoulders. Now imagine the center point between your hands and maintaining the distance between them move them as far as you can to the left and right. Now repeat this with your hands further apart. You will see that the center point moves a lot less the wider your hands are apart; this equates directly to how much you can lean your bike in a corner.
  • Pushing and pulling the bars as you ride a pump track or trail feature. While wide bars help you push the bars down, having too wide a bar limits your ability to pull up in the second part of the pump.
  • Pushing the bars forward as you drop into a technical trail feature. The wider the bar the less you can move your weight back.
  • Bike lean and grip while cornering. The wider the bars the less you can lean the bike. To try this for yourself put your arms out in front of you in line with your shoulders. Now imagine the center point between your hands and maintaining the distance between them move them as far as you can to the left and right. Now repeat this with your hands further apart. You will see that the center point moves a lot less the wider your hands are apart; this equates directly to how much you can lean your bike in a corner.
I got with what feels right which means wider drop bars on road and gravel bikes and a narrower bar on mountain bikes. Height and reach and shoulder width varies considerably with people and so the bar as with the seat/post should be fitted to the rider. Arm strength is another factor as wider bars provide more leverage to keep a front wheel on track.

Going uphill the drop bars are a decided advantage on pavement where there is little rear wheel slippage involved but a different situation on dirt where one needs to drop back to have more weight on the rear tire for added traction. The wider the bars, as Lee mentions, the less far back the rider can be but how much of a difference is a matter of opinion. Nino goes with 680mm bars and he must find that the narrower bars help him with his performance on the trails. And a hardtail is quite different from a bike with a good rear suspension in terms of where the rider puts their weight.

My hardtail bike from the 1980's has a 580mm bar whereas my new Scott hardtail has a bar width of 750mm. I will be cutting back the Scott bike's bars to get them to a 680mm spread. The new Scott Spark suspension XC bike comes with a 740mm handlebar so there may be a trend toward narrower bars.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/handle...-too-wide.html
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Old 09-21-21, 02:21 PM
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https://www.pnwcomponents.com/blogs/...andlebar-width

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/blo...-handlebars-be

Bike is too twitchy for me under 720mm
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Old 09-22-21, 07:40 AM
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You are posting this in the MTB section. Are you asking about mountain biking, riding around town, or road/gravel riding?.

The fact that you are talking about 720-780mm flats bars and road/gravel bars in the same post makes it pretty hard to understand what the heck you are looking for.
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Old 09-27-21, 02:10 PM
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FWIW, I use 680 with a 100 mm stem for fairly technical cross-country riding. But I got my first MTB in the early 90's when short bars and long stems were standard (bar width on that first bike was about 550), and I've only slowly moved to newer geometries. I'm also a pretty small guy (a couple inches shorter than Nino Schurter), so 680 is pretty wide for me. I ride road bikes with 39 cm width drop bars.
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Old 09-28-21, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Moisture
I saw a thread on this only for road bikes hence I'm making a new one here.

My current xc bike has 720mm. I've used 780mm before. I find them both to be way too wide. I like something about shoulder width (48cm?) Or wider, maybe up to 60cm. Would that work fine for trail riding?

For gravel bikes, im noticing flared drops any benefits? Would you prefer regular drop bars? Not sure if I'm a fan of this. I want my wrists to be in a neutral position and the hoods to be roughly 46 or 48cm apart as this is where I usually keep my hands.
my XC bike has 720 bars and I find it a perfect fit. Ride whatever feels best for you. Bike fit is very subjective these days and I tend to lean towards what works best for me and not what the current trends are. I see both pro's and con's to narrow vs. wider bars, but what works for the type of riding you do only you can determine.
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Old 09-29-21, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AeroGut
FWIW, I use 680 with a 100 mm stem for fairly technical cross-country riding. But I got my first MTB in the early 90's when short bars and long stems were standard (bar width on that first bike was about 550), and I've only slowly moved to newer geometries. I'm also a pretty small guy (a couple inches shorter than Nino Schurter), so 680 is pretty wide for me. I ride road bikes with 39 cm width drop bars.
I started MTBing in the early 90's and all my bikes have been your standard 26" race bikes. The positioning people have today sucks. Bars three feet wide and short zero degree stems on bikes that already have super tall stack heights because of the long travel forks have today. I can't climb and ride aggressive sitting so far back and my hands so high. Even doing jumps sucks.

Last year I bought my first "modern" bike (Jamis Dragonslayer 26+). The top tube length is the exact same as my '07 Cannondale F4 but the stem is 80 vs 120. And it's zero degree angle with riser bars. I just swapped on a 100 that has a -6 angle and the difference is night and day. I cut the bars down to 680mm and even that's wider than anything I had before but not too bad. I'm going to buy a 110/-6 stem and some flat bars that will be cut down to my standard 620mm or so.

It seems the MTB scene has gone more to the adventure/trail riding type of deal instead of XC racing style. I used to sign up for every race in my part of the state and there were many but today there's hardly any that don't require a road trip and hotel reservation. It's kind of died out. I can't even figure out what the "proper" riding attire is supposed to be now. Everyone looks like they're wearing regular clothes flapping around in the wind that happen to be designed for mountain biking.

Last edited by Lazyass; 09-29-21 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 09-30-21, 01:38 AM
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I remembered I had some Answer bars I had cut down to 620mm, the same as the average bike in the 90's. Steering feels really good, about as quick as it was with the three foot wide bars and shorty stem. Maybe a little quicker. I think I'll just keep these on the bike. Now I have to shorten all the housing and hoses.

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Old 09-30-21, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
I started MTBing in the early 90's and all my bikes have been your standard 26" race bikes. The positioning people have today sucks. Bars three feet wide and short zero degree stems on bikes that already have super tall stack heights because of the long travel forks have today. I can't climb and ride aggressive sitting so far back and my hands so high. Even doing jumps sucks.

Last year I bought my first "modern" bike (Jamis Dragonslayer 26+). The top tube length is the exact same as my '07 Cannondale F4 but the stem is 80 vs 120. And it's zero degree angle with riser bars. I just swapped on a 100 that has a -6 angle and the difference is night and day. I cut the bars down to 680mm and even that's wider than anything I had before but not too bad. I'm going to buy a 110/-6 stem and some flat bars that will be cut down to my standard 620mm or so.

It seems the MTB scene has gone more to the adventure/trail riding type of deal instead of XC racing style. I used to sign up for every race in my part of the state and there were many but today there's hardly any that don't require a road trip and hotel reservation. It's kind of died out. I can't even figure out what the "proper" riding attire is supposed to be now. Everyone looks like they're wearing regular clothes flapping around in the wind that happen to be designed for mountain biking.
That's a lot of "get off my lawn" going there. And there are plenty of XC bikes out there.

The Jamis you bought isn't modern. And it was kind of a failure so it's no longer made.

Last edited by prj71; 09-30-21 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 09-30-21, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
I The positioning people have today sucks.

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Old 09-30-21, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
I remembered I had some Answer bars I had cut down to 620mm, the same as the average bike in the 90's. Steering feels really good, about as quick as it was with the three foot wide bars and shorty stem. Maybe a little quicker. I think I'll just keep these on the bike. Now I have to shorten all the housing and hoses.

I could never go back to bars that narrow again on a mountain bike. I can’t believe there was a time I rode bars even narrower and thought 620 sounded really wide.

Different strokes. All good.
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Old 09-30-21, 08:07 PM
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I have bars from 580mm to 720.

Basically you have to match the bar to the stem. Shorter stem for wider bars on the same bike.

For me, for actual MTBing, 666mm is the absolute lower limit for having a good time on a blue square trail.

720 pretty much always feels too wide for me.

690 is approximately my Goldielocks bar width.

I like backsweep in wide bars a lot too. 20° or so.
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Old 09-30-21, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta
I could never go back to bars that narrow again on a mountain bike. I can’t believe there was a time I rode bars even narrower and thought 620 sounded really wide.

Different strokes. All good.
Yeah, I ride 580mm on a blue square trail these days and it's a bit of a challenge.

Hard to believe that's all I had back then was full rigid, with 23" bars which were 3" below my saddle.

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Old 10-01-21, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
Basically you have to match the bar to the stem. Shorter stem for wider bars on the same bike.
Exactly. Then it comes down to your preferred riding position. I don't like to sit upright and back and have the ends of my bars sticking out so far getting caught in brush and hitting trees but that seems to what new bikes are set up for today.
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Old 10-01-21, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
Exactly. Then it comes down to your preferred riding position. I don't like to sit upright and back and have the ends of my bars sticking out so far getting caught in brush and hitting trees but that seems to what new bikes are set up for today.
I believe you are using your experience with one ill-fitting bike to draw some bad conclusions about bars, stems, and "modern riding position".

Modern riding position - even with the short stems - is actually farther forward than it used to be.

Running a wide bar pulls you forward. It does not push you back. This is why, when people started swapping out for wider bars, they usually shortened the stems.

Of course, the wider bars only account for part of the move from 120-135mm mm stems in the 90s to the 40-50mm stems you see today. The rest has to do with 2 changes in frame design.
  1. Top tube lengths have grown over the past 20 years. While there has always been a wide range of sizing from brand to brand, 20 years ago, 22.5" would be a typical ETT length for a medium. 10 years ago that would be 23". Now it is around 23.5".
  2. Meanwhile frame reach (a much more important number if you want to know how for forward/back you are going to be over the BB) has grown even more. Way more. And along with this, seat tube angles have also gotten steeper.
So a typical modern bike with 780mm bars and 50mm stem actually positions you farther forward than that bike from the 90s. Or one from 2010.

Bike geometry and cockpit setup have been changing a lot over the past 20 years, and different riding techniques are needed. But there is a reason most people who ride single-track have embraced things like wide bars, shorter stems, and the frame geometries that go with them. Even XC racers - who are late to the party on virtually every trend - are running wide bars and shorter stems (albeit not as much as trail riders or Enduro racers). Over the past 20 years, people have figured out what makes a better fit and geometry for MTBs, rather than just setting them up like road bikes like they did 25 years ago. So if you are still chasing that Roadie riding position from your days racing in 1994... yeah, modern bikes are not going to work for you. They are build for mountain biking, not gravel racing.
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Old 10-06-21, 09:17 PM
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I just can't get with these wide bars. For me 610cm is like reasonable max length, but factors like rise, ergonomics and sweep play a role here.

You want the frame geo and stem to get you in your ideal position, not crazy wide bars with your elbows sticking out. Not ergonomic at all.
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Old 10-07-21, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Moisture
I just can't get with these wide bars. For me 610cm is like reasonable max length, but factors like rise, ergonomics and sweep play a role here.

You want the frame geo and stem to get you in your ideal position, not crazy wide bars with your elbows sticking out. Not ergonomic at all.
It's ok if you can't. However, this is a mountain biking sub forum. You are going to get mountain biking opinions. Wider bars and better geometry improve handling and balance. It is what it is but you won't notice that difference until you begin technical riding.

Sort of like saying you don't get the need for these new expensive running shoes while only jogging around the block.
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Old 10-07-21, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet
It's ok if you can't. However, this is a mountain biking sub forum. You are going to get mountain biking opinions. Wider bars and better geometry improve handling and balance. It is what it is but you won't notice that difference until you begin technical riding.

Sort of like saying you don't get the need for these new expensive running shoes while only jogging around the block.
I dont see any improvement in balance or geometry, especially not when I can't even fit the damn bike through singletrack without nearly hitting every tree.

I can manage with it just fine, I can sort of see how the geometry is designed for it, but I'd much rather not.
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Old 10-07-21, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Moisture
I dont see any improvement in balance or geometry, especially not when I can't even fit the damn bike through singletrack without nearly hitting every tree.

I can manage with it just fine, I can sort of see how the geometry is designed for it, but I'd much rather not.
I guess I would ask whether all the other people who use those trails with modern bars are hitting every tree. If not, it's a skills problem and not an inherent fault if the bar.

Again, it's ok not to want wide bars. Just that, the further one goes down the technical mtb route, the more they make sense and work. If the trails you ride don't require them yet, you don't "need " them.
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Old 10-07-21, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Moisture
I dont see any improvement in balance or geometry, especially not when I can't even fit the damn bike through singletrack without nearly hitting every tree.

I can manage with it just fine, I can sort of see how the geometry is designed for it, but I'd much rather not.
When the vast majority experienced mountain bikers - even ones like me that started on sub-600mm bars - have gravitated towards bars 720 and up, you need to ask yourself what they are getting that you are missing.

I assure you that whatever trail it is that you think you are going to be hitting every tree, folks are riding 750mm bars on it without issue.
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Old 10-07-21, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta
When the vast majority experienced mountain bikers - even ones like me that started on sub-600mm bars - have gravitated towards bars 720 and up, you need to ask yourself what they are getting that you are missing.
Nino Schurter rides 680, so nothing wrong with staying sub 720.

I did nail a tree with my 740mm bars a couple of years ago in Sedona. Probably more due to years of riding in PHX where there are no trees for a few years, so I forgot to dodge 'em. I still think I'll cut 'em down to 700 when I replace the grips though

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Old 10-08-21, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
Nino Schurter rides 680, so nothing wrong with staying sub 720.

I did nail a tree with my 740mm bars a couple of years ago in Sedona. Probably more due to years of riding in PHX where there are no trees for a few years, so I forgot to dodge 'em. I still think I'll cut 'em down to 700 when I replace the grips though
Well I did say “vast majority”, not “all”.

However, I am willing to bet that Nino understands why some go wider in his racing discipline, even if he does not. Further, I’d bet that were he to enter an enduro event he would be running wider bars.

Or maybe not. Some people learn one way and never really want to change. I don’t know much about Nino, but he did cut his teeth when 680mm would have been on the wide side.

Last edited by Kapusta; 10-08-21 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 10-08-21, 06:28 AM
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Oh well, per one of his other threads, OP has destroyed his mtb, won't be railin' any single track soon. Meanwhile, standards may change again....
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Old 10-11-21, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Moisture
I dont see any improvement in balance or geometry, especially not when I can't even fit the damn bike through singletrack without nearly hitting every tree.

I can manage with it just fine, I can sort of see how the geometry is designed for it, but I'd much rather not.
Wider bars are better for the steep and technical terrain. Maybe you aren't riding steep and technical terrain?

I'll trade stability for the occasional tight tree on single track.
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Old 10-11-21, 07:51 AM
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My bike is totally fine to ride, I just don't physically have the time or energy for it most the time these days.

I've tried everything from 42cm drop bars up to 780cm flat bars and most in between.

The wider bars do help with stability. I dont want to ride terrain this technical, so I'll be cutting down my bar's, although not as much as I woukd initially have wanted to, as I must compensate for the geometry the bike is designed around.
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