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Anything really wrong with Biopace?

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Anything really wrong with Biopace?

Old 09-12-11, 11:51 AM
  #26  
djb
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my knees certainly didnt like them at higher cadences, just felt weird and I had a problem with a knee around that time, so their fate was sealed.

if they were so great, they would still be around and on all bikes.

Darwinism at work.
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Old 09-19-11, 08:28 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by djb
if they were so great, they would still be around and on all bikes.

Darwinism at work.
The fact that a product goes extinct does not necessarily indicate that it is inferior. For example, I continue to be an avid SunTour user. One of my XC Pro rear derailleurs has over 50,000 miles on it WITH ITS ORIGINAL PULLEYS, and it is still working practically like new. SunTour failed because not because of poor products, but because of weaker marketing. As for Biopace, my opinion is that the inordinately influential Bicycling magazine is largely responsible for its demise. After initially praising Biopace (as they do for at least 90% of all new products they review), the magazine did a complete reversal and ridiculed it incessantly. This caused riders who had never even tried Biopace chainrings to believe that they were junk.
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Old 09-19-11, 10:51 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Bipsycho
The fact that a product goes extinct does not necessarily indicate that it is inferior. For example, I continue to be an avid SunTour user. One of my XC Pro rear derailleurs has over 50,000 miles on it WITH ITS ORIGINAL PULLEYS, and it is still working practically like new. SunTour failed because not because of poor products, but because of weaker marketing. As for Biopace, my opinion is that the inordinately influential Bicycling magazine is largely responsible for its demise. After initially praising Biopace (as they do for at least 90% of all new products they review), the magazine did a complete reversal and ridiculed it incessantly. This caused riders who had never even tried Biopace chainrings to believe that they were junk.
What I'm about to say a lot of people won't believe, but regardless what anyone thinks it's true. I have Suntour components too and love them. One of the bikes has the complete Superbe package on it. Those Superbe components have over 150,000 miles on them! Never had a pulley failure, in fact short of relubing I haven't had to replace any part including bearings, other than the front derailleur mounting band broke about 12 years ago and I replaced it with the exact same model I had in storage that was new. The only part that has less mileage on it is the headset because when I raced I used a different headset then about 12 years ago I replaced that headset (a Stronglight) with the Superbe I had in storage brand new; and the seat post from TTT to Superbe because I like the look of it better. Nothing was wrong with the Stronglight I just didn't like the black color and wanted the alloy silver look even though the Superbe headset (and seat post) was a tad heavier.
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Old 09-19-11, 02:35 PM
  #29  
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guess all I can say is to repeat that my knees didnt like the feel of a non-round pedal stroke, it just didnt feel good, and going back to round was an immediate relief.
I never read bike magazines back then or now, all I did was listen to my own body.

if they work for you, thats great.
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Old 09-19-11, 08:16 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by djb
guess all I can say is to repeat that my knees didnt like the feel of a non-round pedal stroke, it just didnt feel good, and going back to round was an immediate relief.
I never read bike magazines back then or now, all I did was listen to my own body.

if they work for you, thats great.
+1, I just replaced my biopace triple crank with a conventional crank, never got used to the feel, especially in the middle and granny rings. Much happier with round rings. I normally spin at 90-95 rpm...
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Old 09-27-11, 02:49 AM
  #31  
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They seem like a good idea (bio, ergonomic and all) and both Sheldon and the race above recomend them for time trials / triathlon (which is all the racing I do and then only occasionally). They can be had for 10 USD per ring about.

What I would like to know is, will they fit on my ultegra cranks with ten speed chain. Yes, they do.

But I rotated them to make them like the modern Rotor Q/Osymetric rings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nihonbunka/15756021748/

The fact that the direct opposite change (less work at the dead spot) can work also suggests to me placebo, but at the same time I see the ergonomics of both approaches.

Last edited by timtak; 04-03-17 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 05-01-17, 03:29 PM
  #32  
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Bio pace

I'v had them, didnt notice any issues.
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Old 05-01-17, 03:31 PM
  #33  
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Zombie Alert!
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Old 05-01-17, 03:32 PM
  #34  
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Interesting - this thread seems to get bumped every 6 years. I'll set a reminder for 2023.
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Old 05-01-17, 03:39 PM
  #35  
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What's with all the Zombie Threads lately?
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Old 05-01-17, 03:49 PM
  #36  
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update 2017:

Chris Froome uses an ovalized chainring. so there you are... of course there's some
new age name for it, so as to imply it is something new and different.

if i understand correctly the biopace chainrings can be oriented in five different positions WRT the crank arm (asuming a five bolt hole crank), so being 'like Chris' shouldn't be too difficult.

Last edited by hueyhoolihan; 05-01-17 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 05-01-17, 05:06 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by hueyhoolihan
update 2017:

Chris Froome uses an ovalized chainring. so there you are... of course there's some
new age name for it, so as to imply it is something new.
Reality Check.

Froome, Wiggins, and the rest of team Sky is(or was) under investigation for doping.

I could be wrong, but something smells here.

The team with the best chemists/doctors will always have an advantage.
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Old 05-02-17, 08:08 AM
  #38  
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https://www.sheldonbrown.com/biopace.html
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Old 05-02-17, 03:50 PM
  #39  
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My website hosting has changed since then, so I re-posted the image.
-----------

-----------
Note #1: the image above was drawn with the long-axis of each chainring placed vertical. The bolt-holes shown are to illustrate the bolt-hole circle size, but may not be accurate in rotational position.
Note #2: with BioPace and O.Symmetric, the largest chainring is illustrated and the smaller chainrings were more non-round than the largest one.
Note #3: as before--Rotor and O.Symmetric are still available new. None of the others are, tho NOS BioPace rings are not impossible to find on eBay and the like.
Note #4: I'm still using Rotor Q-rings, for the same reason as six years ago. I don't know if I'm any faster, but they are more comfortable on my knees on long rides.
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Old 05-02-17, 04:11 PM
  #40  
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Back in the 90's, I bought a used touring bike which had Biopace rings.
IIRC, the small and middle were Biopace, and the large ring was round.
I did not like them because it felt like I was pumping a pair of pistons, instead of spinning.
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Old 05-02-17, 05:38 PM
  #41  
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Interesting.

I was given a 91 Butte with Biopace rings that i have not yet had time to fix up. If it is really in fact easier on the knees it may be worth overhauling the bike for a city commuter.
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Old 05-02-17, 10:37 PM
  #42  
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Biopace has worked well for me. No problems with it. They should be easier for mashing, while neutral for spinning fast.

One thing to note - the chainrings need to be oriented the proper way - I've seen people bolt them incorrectly.

They have markers that need to be aligned with the right crank arm.





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Old 05-03-17, 01:38 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Slaninar
Biopace has worked well for me. No problems with it. They should be easier for mashing, while neutral for spinning fast.

One thing to note - the chainrings need to be oriented the proper way - I've seen people bolt them incorrectly.

They have markers that need to be aligned with the right crank arm.





Thanks! I learned something new. I will inspect mine for proper orientation.
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Old 05-03-17, 08:40 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
I think that it depends on your riding style. If you are a high cadence spinner, I doubt you'll like them. If you tend to be a bit of a masher, you'll probably love them.
I tend to agree with this. My roadbikes wont have them but there is a mtb in the fleet that wears bp rings and I dont bother changing them out. When on the trails the difference in feel isnt worth the changing out. Basically, I dont care for oval rings.
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Old 05-03-17, 09:15 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
I think that it depends on your riding style. If you are a high cadence spinner, I doubt you'll like them. If you tend to be a bit of a masher, you'll probably love them.
Originally Posted by OldsCOOL
I tend to agree with this. My roadbikes wont have them but there is a mtb in the fleet that wears bp rings and I dont bother changing them out. When on the trails the difference in feel isnt worth the changing out. Basically, I dont care for oval rings.
Modern Osymetric chainrings are quite different than Biopace, and they work well for spinners.
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Old 05-07-17, 07:46 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
Modern Osymetric chainrings are quite different than Biopace, and they work well for spinners.
Biopace have more teeth in the blank oart of the pedalling cycle to encourage riders to put out watts in the upswing and dscourage mashing,or make the feet fall through the mash oart of the cycle. Qrings and Ossymetric have more teeth in the mash part of the cycle to make the bicycle make the most of the natural human tendency to mash. Biopace can be rotated back two bolts to get a less extreme Qring Ossymetric effect. I can't tell the difference.
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Old 05-07-17, 10:01 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by timtak
Biopace have more teeth in the blank oart of the pedalling cycle to encourage riders to put out watts in the upswing and dscourage mashing,or make the feet fall through the mash oart of the cycle. Qrings and Ossymetric have more teeth in the mash part of the cycle to make the bicycle make the most of the natural human tendency to mash. Biopace can be rotated back two bolts to get a less extreme Qring Ossymetric effect. I can't tell the difference.
Have you used Osymetric chainrings? I have.

They work well at 100+rpm.
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Old 05-07-17, 10:09 PM
  #48  
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Just not made in over 20 years and offered in limited tooth counts.. even then..
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Old 05-08-17, 01:51 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
Have you used Osymetric chainrings? I have. They work well at 100+rpm.
I am sorry "mash" was the wrong word since it implies a low cadence. What I meant was that Osymetric chain rings make the most of the human tendency to put out more Watts in the parts of the cycle where the feet are pushing, not when pulling nor at the the top and bottom of the pedalling cycle.

Philosophy 1 (Match cyclist to bicycle): It was more common to advocate that cyclists learn to be cyclic, with even power output, learning to pull as well as push and scrape the mud off their feet at the bottom, and put power through the top. This "learn to match the bicycle" philosophy retains advocates. Biopace chainrings taught cyclists to do this.

Philosophy 2 (Match bicycle to cyclist): Osymetric and Rotor QRings are in line with the philosophy that cyclists, being walking/running bipeds, have a tendency push, so make the bicycle fit this human tendency by accepting and requiring more power in the push part (or "drive phase") of the cycle.

This difference in design philosophy is irrespective of cadence.

A compromise between the two philosophies may sound like a good idea: accept that one is going to put out more watts in a certain part of the cycle -- the pushing (or mashing?) part -- but try also to make your pedalling style more circular and fit yourself to the bike. I am surprised to find that this Daily Telegraph article
How to cycle with the technique of a pro - Telegraph
claims that experienced cyclists do or should learn to just push, by using flat pedals for instance, the reverse of what I had assumed to be cycling lore.
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Old 05-08-17, 03:44 AM
  #50  
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The only problems I ever had with Bio-Pace was difficulty setting up the derailleur. Once set up properly the rings shifted flawlessly and I never had any issues with my knees---lots of hard miles on them. I have two sets---temporarily off the bike for other reasons, but would and will still use them if I get the right opportunity
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