Anything really wrong with Biopace?
#26
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my knees certainly didnt like them at higher cadences, just felt weird and I had a problem with a knee around that time, so their fate was sealed.
if they were so great, they would still be around and on all bikes.
Darwinism at work.
if they were so great, they would still be around and on all bikes.
Darwinism at work.
#27
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The fact that a product goes extinct does not necessarily indicate that it is inferior. For example, I continue to be an avid SunTour user. One of my XC Pro rear derailleurs has over 50,000 miles on it WITH ITS ORIGINAL PULLEYS, and it is still working practically like new. SunTour failed because not because of poor products, but because of weaker marketing. As for Biopace, my opinion is that the inordinately influential Bicycling magazine is largely responsible for its demise. After initially praising Biopace (as they do for at least 90% of all new products they review), the magazine did a complete reversal and ridiculed it incessantly. This caused riders who had never even tried Biopace chainrings to believe that they were junk.
#28
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The fact that a product goes extinct does not necessarily indicate that it is inferior. For example, I continue to be an avid SunTour user. One of my XC Pro rear derailleurs has over 50,000 miles on it WITH ITS ORIGINAL PULLEYS, and it is still working practically like new. SunTour failed because not because of poor products, but because of weaker marketing. As for Biopace, my opinion is that the inordinately influential Bicycling magazine is largely responsible for its demise. After initially praising Biopace (as they do for at least 90% of all new products they review), the magazine did a complete reversal and ridiculed it incessantly. This caused riders who had never even tried Biopace chainrings to believe that they were junk.
#29
Senior Member
guess all I can say is to repeat that my knees didnt like the feel of a non-round pedal stroke, it just didnt feel good, and going back to round was an immediate relief.
I never read bike magazines back then or now, all I did was listen to my own body.
if they work for you, thats great.
I never read bike magazines back then or now, all I did was listen to my own body.
if they work for you, thats great.
#30
Full Member
guess all I can say is to repeat that my knees didnt like the feel of a non-round pedal stroke, it just didnt feel good, and going back to round was an immediate relief.
I never read bike magazines back then or now, all I did was listen to my own body.
if they work for you, thats great.
I never read bike magazines back then or now, all I did was listen to my own body.
if they work for you, thats great.
#31
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They seem like a good idea (bio, ergonomic and all) and both Sheldon and the race above recomend them for time trials / triathlon (which is all the racing I do and then only occasionally). They can be had for 10 USD per ring about.
What I would like to know is, will they fit on my ultegra cranks with ten speed chain. Yes, they do.
But I rotated them to make them like the modern Rotor Q/Osymetric rings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nihonbunka/15756021748/
The fact that the direct opposite change (less work at the dead spot) can work also suggests to me placebo, but at the same time I see the ergonomics of both approaches.
What I would like to know is, will they fit on my ultegra cranks with ten speed chain. Yes, they do.
But I rotated them to make them like the modern Rotor Q/Osymetric rings.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nihonbunka/15756021748/
The fact that the direct opposite change (less work at the dead spot) can work also suggests to me placebo, but at the same time I see the ergonomics of both approaches.
Last edited by timtak; 04-03-17 at 09:35 PM.
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#34
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Interesting - this thread seems to get bumped every 6 years. I'll set a reminder for 2023.
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#36
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update 2017:
Chris Froome uses an ovalized chainring. so there you are... of course there's some
new age name for it, so as to imply it is something new and different.
if i understand correctly the biopace chainrings can be oriented in five different positions WRT the crank arm (asuming a five bolt hole crank), so being 'like Chris' shouldn't be too difficult.
Chris Froome uses an ovalized chainring. so there you are... of course there's some
new age name for it, so as to imply it is something new and different.
if i understand correctly the biopace chainrings can be oriented in five different positions WRT the crank arm (asuming a five bolt hole crank), so being 'like Chris' shouldn't be too difficult.
Last edited by hueyhoolihan; 05-01-17 at 03:58 PM.
#37
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Froome, Wiggins, and the rest of team Sky is(or was) under investigation for doping.
I could be wrong, but something smells here.
The team with the best chemists/doctors will always have an advantage.
#39
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My website hosting has changed since then, so I re-posted the image.
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Note #1: the image above was drawn with the long-axis of each chainring placed vertical. The bolt-holes shown are to illustrate the bolt-hole circle size, but may not be accurate in rotational position.
Note #2: with BioPace and O.Symmetric, the largest chainring is illustrated and the smaller chainrings were more non-round than the largest one.
Note #3: as before--Rotor and O.Symmetric are still available new. None of the others are, tho NOS BioPace rings are not impossible to find on eBay and the like.
Note #4: I'm still using Rotor Q-rings, for the same reason as six years ago. I don't know if I'm any faster, but they are more comfortable on my knees on long rides.
-----------
-----------
Note #1: the image above was drawn with the long-axis of each chainring placed vertical. The bolt-holes shown are to illustrate the bolt-hole circle size, but may not be accurate in rotational position.
Note #2: with BioPace and O.Symmetric, the largest chainring is illustrated and the smaller chainrings were more non-round than the largest one.
Note #3: as before--Rotor and O.Symmetric are still available new. None of the others are, tho NOS BioPace rings are not impossible to find on eBay and the like.
Note #4: I'm still using Rotor Q-rings, for the same reason as six years ago. I don't know if I'm any faster, but they are more comfortable on my knees on long rides.
#40
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Back in the 90's, I bought a used touring bike which had Biopace rings.
IIRC, the small and middle were Biopace, and the large ring was round.
I did not like them because it felt like I was pumping a pair of pistons, instead of spinning.
IIRC, the small and middle were Biopace, and the large ring was round.
I did not like them because it felt like I was pumping a pair of pistons, instead of spinning.
#41
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Interesting.
I was given a 91 Butte with Biopace rings that i have not yet had time to fix up. If it is really in fact easier on the knees it may be worth overhauling the bike for a city commuter.
I was given a 91 Butte with Biopace rings that i have not yet had time to fix up. If it is really in fact easier on the knees it may be worth overhauling the bike for a city commuter.
#42
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Biopace has worked well for me. No problems with it. They should be easier for mashing, while neutral for spinning fast.
One thing to note - the chainrings need to be oriented the proper way - I've seen people bolt them incorrectly.
They have markers that need to be aligned with the right crank arm.
One thing to note - the chainrings need to be oriented the proper way - I've seen people bolt them incorrectly.
They have markers that need to be aligned with the right crank arm.
#43
Senior Member
Biopace has worked well for me. No problems with it. They should be easier for mashing, while neutral for spinning fast.
One thing to note - the chainrings need to be oriented the proper way - I've seen people bolt them incorrectly.
They have markers that need to be aligned with the right crank arm.
One thing to note - the chainrings need to be oriented the proper way - I've seen people bolt them incorrectly.
They have markers that need to be aligned with the right crank arm.
#44
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I tend to agree with this. My roadbikes wont have them but there is a mtb in the fleet that wears bp rings and I dont bother changing them out. When on the trails the difference in feel isnt worth the changing out. Basically, I dont care for oval rings.
#46
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Biopace have more teeth in the blank oart of the pedalling cycle to encourage riders to put out watts in the upswing and dscourage mashing,or make the feet fall through the mash oart of the cycle. Qrings and Ossymetric have more teeth in the mash part of the cycle to make the bicycle make the most of the natural human tendency to mash. Biopace can be rotated back two bolts to get a less extreme Qring Ossymetric effect. I can't tell the difference.
#47
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Biopace have more teeth in the blank oart of the pedalling cycle to encourage riders to put out watts in the upswing and dscourage mashing,or make the feet fall through the mash oart of the cycle. Qrings and Ossymetric have more teeth in the mash part of the cycle to make the bicycle make the most of the natural human tendency to mash. Biopace can be rotated back two bolts to get a less extreme Qring Ossymetric effect. I can't tell the difference.
They work well at 100+rpm.
#49
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Philosophy 1 (Match cyclist to bicycle): It was more common to advocate that cyclists learn to be cyclic, with even power output, learning to pull as well as push and scrape the mud off their feet at the bottom, and put power through the top. This "learn to match the bicycle" philosophy retains advocates. Biopace chainrings taught cyclists to do this.
Philosophy 2 (Match bicycle to cyclist): Osymetric and Rotor QRings are in line with the philosophy that cyclists, being walking/running bipeds, have a tendency push, so make the bicycle fit this human tendency by accepting and requiring more power in the push part (or "drive phase") of the cycle.
This difference in design philosophy is irrespective of cadence.
A compromise between the two philosophies may sound like a good idea: accept that one is going to put out more watts in a certain part of the cycle -- the pushing (or mashing?) part -- but try also to make your pedalling style more circular and fit yourself to the bike. I am surprised to find that this Daily Telegraph article
How to cycle with the technique of a pro - Telegraph
claims that experienced cyclists do or should learn to just push, by using flat pedals for instance, the reverse of what I had assumed to be cycling lore.
#50
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The only problems I ever had with Bio-Pace was difficulty setting up the derailleur. Once set up properly the rings shifted flawlessly and I never had any issues with my knees---lots of hard miles on them. I have two sets---temporarily off the bike for other reasons, but would and will still use them if I get the right opportunity