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drilling out head tube from 1" to 1 1/8"?

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drilling out head tube from 1" to 1 1/8"?

Old 03-09-05, 03:57 PM
  #26  
sydney
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Originally Posted by pnj
I don't care what the QBP catalog says. I know kids have done this.

king, fsa, dia-compe all make 1 1/8 headsets that fit both mtn. bike and bmx frames. the exact same headsets....same size head tubes, same size stear tubes. you know, that's why you can run a mtn. bike stem on a bmx fork.
It does not matter what kids have done with BMX bikes. Different story with respect to headtubes it seems. There are common 11/8" HS for alot of bikes.Nothing new there. That has nothing to do with tryng to ream a HT that takes a standard 1" HS out to take the cups for a 11/8" HS. What part of that are you not able to get your head around.
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Old 03-09-05, 04:16 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by pnj
I know it's been done because in the bmx world, it took some time before all frames had 'oversized' headtubes. kids had old 1 inch frames but bought newwer 'oversized' (1 1/8) forks.

I don't know how they did it, I just know it involved using loose ball bearings. as in, no bearing retainer.
BMX "1 inch" bikes use a larger inside diameter head tube, than adult type frames do (32.7 mm vs 30.2 mm) even though both use the same 1" steerer outside diameter. I can belive it might be possible on a BMX dimension frame, but no way on a standard "1 inch" there just isn't room.

There's a chart of relevant headset dimensions at the
"Headset" entry of my online Bicycle Glossary - https://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ha-i.html#headset


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Old 03-09-05, 05:10 PM
  #28  
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Can't be done. Use the right size steerer tube.
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Old 03-09-05, 05:36 PM
  #29  
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I'm siding with Sheldon with this one.
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Old 03-09-05, 06:28 PM
  #30  
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Oh, but think of the weight savings! You'll just fly without that extra head tube weight!
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Old 03-09-05, 07:00 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Aussomeman
the situation is like this: i'm running my current mtb as a rigid singlespeed (with tensioner). it's an older aluminum frame with a 1 1/8" head tube, and i'm running a rigid threadless steel fork with it. i'm looking to pick up an old steel frame with horizontal drops so i can drop the tensioner and build the aluminum frame back up with some gears. i also just picked up a sweet old school white brothers fork with a 1 1/8" steerer that i'm planning to install on the aluminum frame, and the steel frame i'm looking at buying right now has a 1" head tube and no fork included. I was hoping perhaps i could just swap the fork from my current rig onto the steel frame, but if it's that sketchy, i'll probably just look for a 1" fork.
Well, why didn't you say so before? Get a 1" fork. eBay, LBS - they are not that hard to find (esp rigid).

Everyone will be happy, and forum regulars will not be able to offend other forum regulars!
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Old 02-28-21, 01:34 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Aussomeman
Is it possible to drill out a 1" head tube to enable the use of a 1 1/8" headset and fork, or would the structural integrity of the frame be compromised? I'm looking at purchasing a rigid steel frame with a 1" head tube for a singlespeed project, and I'd like to be able to use the fork(s) I've already got (both are 1 1/8) with it. I could swear I read that this was possible online somewhere. I thought it was at Sheldon Brown's site, but I can't seem to find it again. Thanks in advance!
There likely is not enough material in the head tube wall, and if there was there wouldn't be enough material left after reaming. Any older 1" suspension forks I wouldn't use, especially any old Scott's, Manitou's, people have died instantly when a fork has suddenly broken.
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Old 02-28-21, 02:08 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by dcalkin
There likely is not .
What brings you here @dcalkin?
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Old 02-28-21, 07:42 AM
  #34  
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IME, a 1 1/8” steerer can pass through an 1” head tube.
I’ve made adapters that fit on the outside of the steerer tube to allow the installation of 1/18” headset cups ”outboard” of the original bearing mount.
it does change the geometry somewhat, but is generally manageable.
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Old 02-28-21, 08:46 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by dabac
IME, a 1 1/8” steerer can pass through an 1” head tube.
I’ve made adapters that fit on the outside of the steerer tube to allow the installation of 1/18” headset cups ”outboard” of the original bearing mount.
it does change the geometry somewhat, but is generally manageable.
Although this is a 15yo thread resurrection, I've wondered why it wouldn't be possible to make head cups that would fit the outside of the steerer tube. My guess has been that there is too much irregularity in the roundness of the material after welding and not always enough space for a safe install. I've often thought in a worse case scenario it might be useful to save a frame.
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Old 02-28-21, 08:55 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth
Although this is a 15yo thread resurrection, I've wondered why it wouldn't be possible to make head cups that would fit the outside of the steerer tube. My guess has been that there is too much irregularity in the roundness of the material after welding and not always enough space for a safe install. I've often thought in a worse case scenario it might be useful to save a frame.
Yep, real Zombie thread but as long as it's back.... One problem with the "external" headset cups is that the headtube may not project above the top tube or below the downtube enough for the cups to seat. I have a 55cm '96 Litespeed Catalyst with a 1" headtube and between the short projections at its ends and the weld beads at the intersections there isn't enough tube for any headset cup to slide over.
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Old 02-28-21, 09:42 AM
  #37  
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Zombie thread for sure, but it was fun to read through and see responses from long gone members like Sydney And Sheldon, RIP.
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Old 02-28-21, 09:48 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Aussomeman
thanks for all the replies, folks - didn't realize this would be such a hot topic.
Welcome to Bike Forums.


EDIT: argh.... I was sucked in by a 15 year old Zombie thread.
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Old 02-28-21, 03:26 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Aussomeman
thanks for all the replies, folks - didn't realize this would be such a hot topic. i kinda figured it wasn't too practical, but the situation is like this: i'm running my current mtb as a rigid singlespeed (with tensioner). it's an older aluminum frame with a 1 1/8" head tube, and i'm running a rigid threadless steel fork with it. i'm looking to pick up an old steel frame with horizontal drops so i can drop the tensioner and build the aluminum frame back up with some gears. i also just picked up a sweet old school white brothers fork with a 1 1/8" steerer that i'm planning to install on the aluminum frame, and the steel frame i'm looking at buying right now has a 1" head tube and no fork included. I was hoping perhaps i could just swap the fork from my current rig onto the steel frame, but if it's that sketchy, i'll probably just look for a 1" fork.

You can buy a brand new 1" steel fork, threaded or threadless for less than $100 new (more like $75) and used ones are common and inexpensive on eBay - If there's a vintage crown you're looking for, chrome, painted, whatever you want you'll find it fairly quickly. If you want a beautiful, light, top tier all carbon 1" threadless fork, you can get one for about $275 (columbus minimal) or something like Wound Up for different style points (but $$)

And all prices in between. So it's probably not worth a lot of time and effort to try to get by with what you have?
​​​​

Last edited by Camilo; 02-28-21 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 02-28-21, 04:02 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Camilo
You can buy a brand new 1" steel fork, threaded or threadless for less than $100 new (more like $75) and used ones are common and inexpensive on eBay. If you want a beautiful, light, top tier all carbon 1" threadless fork, you can get one for about $275 (columbus minimal)
You really think Aussomeman hasn't figured something out in the last 15 years since they asked?
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Old 02-28-21, 04:18 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Iride01
You really think Aussomeman hasn't figured something out in the last 15 years since they asked?
Sorry. Mea culpa
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Old 02-28-21, 04:19 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Camilo
Sorry. Mea culpa
Truth is, I've made the same mistake many times.

Maybe the newbs that revive these zombie threads should send us a gift cert for free beer!
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Old 02-28-21, 05:03 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
Zombie thread for sure, but it was fun to read through and see responses from long gone members like Sydney And Sheldon, RIP.


+1...the conversations here were much more "stimulating" when Sydney and Sheldon were still around.
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Old 02-28-21, 05:10 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
+1...the conversations here were much more "stimulating" when Sydney and Sheldon were still around.
Certainly more acerbic in Sydney's case.
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Old 03-03-21, 06:32 PM
  #45  
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See, we revived an old thread and provided a platform to memorialize a couple of greats.
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Old 07-25-21, 06:43 PM
  #46  
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Well, as long as you're all here...

Being faced with a similar problem, I'm curious whether anyone might have some feedback/wisdom to share (acerbic or otherwise) regarding the one potential solution that seems rather obvious to me, but that I've yet to see anyone mention in this or any other thread on this topic.

If I have a carbon fork with 1-1/8" aluminum steerer that I'd like to install in a carbon fiber frame that was designed for a 1" steerer fork, is there any reason why the aluminum steerer couldn't be turned down on a lathe to the 1" ISO spec? IOW, take the shaft from 28.6mm to 25.4mm, and the crown race seat from 30.1mm to 26.4" ?

Seems to me that taking roughly 2mm - 2.5mm off of the meat of the steerer shaft should still leave it well within the safety margin in terms of durability (though i don't have the specific fork in hand yet, so can't measure the ID of the shaft to be sure of the resultant wall thickness.) Obviously this would need to be done by a competent shop, with an eye kept on avoiding overheating of the shaft and affecting the aluminum/carbon bond. And careful attention to the surfaces and radius of the race seat and crown face.

Any other reasons to avoid this approach? (I understand that it's easier/simpler/cheaper to buy an appropriate fork, but in this case I'm highly motivated to use this particular fork if I can find any way to make it work. It's a 650c aero fork, not easy to source. I may fab some external adapters for 1-1/8" cups as a plan B if turning down the steerer is not a worthwhile approach. Unless anyone knows of a source for such adapters?

Many thanks for any thoughts/jeers/flames/musings/tributes to forebearers, etc.

Last edited by Redshift96; 07-25-21 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 07-25-21, 07:05 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Redshift96
Being faced with a similar problem, I'm curious whether anyone might have some feedback/wisdom to share (acerbic or otherwise) regarding the one potential solution that seems rather obvious to me, but that I've yet to see anyone mention in this or any other thread on this topic.

If I have a carbon fork with 1-1/8" aluminum steerer that I'd like to install in a carbon fiber frame that was designed for a 1" steerer fork, is there any reason why the aluminum steerer couldn't be turned down on a lathe to the 1" ISO spec? IOW, take the shaft from 28.6mm to 25.4mm, and the crown race seat from 30.1mm to 26.4" ?

Seems to me that taking roughly 2mm - 2.5mm off of the meat of the steerer shaft should still leave it well within the safety margin in terms of durability (though i don't have the specific fork in hand yet, so can't measure the ID of the shaft to be sure of the resultant wall thickness.) Obviously this would need to be done by a competent shop, with an eye kept on avoiding overheating of the shaft and affecting the aluminum/carbon bond. And careful attention to the surfaces and radius of the race seat and crown face.

Any other reasons to avoid this approach? (I understand that it's easier/simpler/cheaper to buy an appropriate fork, but in this case I'm highly motivated to use this particular fork if I can find any way to make it work. It's a 650c aero fork, not easy to source. I may fab some external adapters for 1-1/8" cups as a plan B if turning down the steerer is not a worthwhile approach. Unless anyone knows of a source for such adapters?

Many thanks for any thoughts/jeers/flames/musings/tributes to forebearers, etc.
Sounds good. Take lots of pictures.
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Old 07-25-21, 07:21 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Redshift96
Seems to me that taking roughly 2mm - 2.5mm off of the meat of the steerer shaft should still leave it well within the safety margin in terms of durability (though i don't have the specific fork in hand yet, so can't measure the ID of the shaft to be sure of the resultant wall thickness.) Obviously this would need to be done by a competent shop, with an eye kept on avoiding overheating of the shaft and affecting the aluminum/carbon bond. And careful attention to the surfaces and radius of the race seat and crown face.

Any other reasons to avoid this approach? (I understand that it's easier/simpler/cheaper to buy an appropriate fork, but in this case I'm highly motivated to use this particular fork if I can find any way to make it work.
Originally Posted by dabac
IME, a 1 1/8” steerer can pass through an 1” head tube.
I’ve made adapters that fit on the outside of the steerer tube to allow the installation of 1/18” headset cups ”outboard” of the original bearing mount.
it does change the geometry somewhat, but is generally manageable.
I wouldn't try making a 1" out of 1 1/8". Keep in mind nothing is solid, so if you're cutting off say 1/16" from the walls, there won't be anything left.

Now, one possibility would be to sleeve it. I.E. Find a tight fitting carbon fiber or aluminum tube, epoxy in place, and machine down as you desire. Make sure the tube extends far enough down to be pinned with the brake caliper.

As @dabac suggested, the 1 1/8" fork may barely fit inside the 1" head tube. So if you made custom 1 1/8" bearing seats, it may work.

I'm wondering if some of the BMX kids making the conversion mentioned earlier simply added upper and lower thrust bearings, inserted the fork greased the tube.

My preference, however, would be to hunt down the correct part.

Kestrel 1" fork:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/402902625039

Profile Designs 1" fork:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/164781471339

Or, even get a steel fork made to your specs.
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Old 07-25-21, 09:44 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Redshift96
Seems to me that taking roughly 2mm - 2.5mm off of the meat of the steerer shaft should still leave it well within the safety margin in terms of durability (though i don't have the specific fork in hand yet, so can't measure the ID of the shaft to be sure of the resultant wall thickness.) Obviously this would need to be done by a competent shop, with an eye kept on avoiding overheating of the shaft and affecting the aluminum/carbon bond. And careful attention to the surfaces and radius of the race seat and crown face.
No way you can take 2-2.5mm off the steerer and keep it strong enough to function as a steerer. If you find any shop that will actually turn it down for you, they’re not a competent shop.

As a total flyer, and this is pretty far out there, it may be possible to sleeve the ID with a machined Cro-Moly tube to maintain the same structural integrity. Probably have to machine the ID to be close to a press fit with the sleeve. Then machine the OD of the steerer. You’ll need an engineer to give you the material type and dimensions.

Adequately bonding the sleeve has it’s own problems. I’m not sure what can be used. I don’t think it can just be press fit since there would probably be an issue with heating the aluminum steerer and the carbon. Plus trying to press fit that length could be problematic.

John
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Old 07-26-21, 07:13 AM
  #50  
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really I have a great experience with the product. although it has an overheating issue, otherwise its good.
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