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At what point do you give up on drop bars?

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At what point do you give up on drop bars?

Old 08-26-21, 11:00 AM
  #26  
Kapusta
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I can't stand vintage style drops. Newer designs have vastly different ergonomics, particularly on the hoods and ramps.

IMO, the biggest reason that people don't find the drop position useful is that they are running the bars too low. Just because some super fit and flexible road racer runs their stem slammed and their bars 4" below their saddle does not mean that you can't run your bars 2" above your saddle if you want.

One thing that made a HUGE difference for me in how I liked being in the drops was getting a flared bar (Salsa Cowbell). It is not so much the hand position itself, but rather by moving my hand out slightly, my forearms clear the tops/ramps more easily.

But if you have tried different drops and just don't like them... don't use them. My wife tried to get on with them for years and never really dug them. We did a flatbar conversion and she has been happy as a clam.
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Old 08-26-21, 11:00 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by denaffen
Please, can we stop talking about frame size. Again, this isn't one bike. Multiple bikes. A variety of sizes. A variety of stems. A variety of bars. This isn't a case of me getting on one ill-fitting bike and making a sweeping proclamation.
Being able to ride in the drops is almost always a bike fit issue, so I'm not sure how we can stop talking about bike fit. Like I said above, riding on the hoods should be where your body/hands fall naturally, and it should be comfortable for miles, so much so that you mostly ride on the hoods. With a shallow drop bar like the Highway One, if the bar is set up so the hoods are that comfortable, then you should be able to get in the drops ALMOST AS comfortably, and pedal smoothly for at least a mile or two. If you can't, then it's either the fit, or your own flexibility.

As far as fit goes, it could be something as seemingly unrelated as saddle angle. I've sometimes set up a bike and even though I don't feel like I'm falling off the back of the saddle, I feel like I have to reach out to the bars. A slight adjustment of saddle angle puts the hoods where they should be. Too much, and I feel like I'm being thrown at them. It's a matter of a degree or two.

When you're on the hoods, do you feel like you can sit up without having to push off the bar, or would you fall forward?

EDIT: If you're not uncomfortable in the drops, and you can pedal comfortably in them, just consciously do it more. Think of flat bits of road, especially into the wind, as a time trial and see how much faster you can go in the drops.

But, you know, they're your bikes, and you're free to do what you like.
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Old 08-26-21, 11:08 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by denaffen
Please, can we stop talking about frame size. Again, this isn't one bike. Multiple bikes. A variety of sizes. A variety of stems. A variety of bars. This isn't a case of me getting on one ill-fitting bike and making a sweeping proclamation.

Then what's your actual question? Seems to me you tried green eggs and ham and you really don't like it. Are you asking us if it's ok to acknowledge this and start eating something else?
Yes, try other styles of bars. If anyone thinks less of you for it, that's their problem, not yours.

If your question is if it's ok to like the Soma Highway Ones just for riding on the hoods, yes, of course it is. Again, if anyone is going to think less of you for not riding the drops, who cares?

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Old 08-26-21, 11:09 AM
  #29  
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If you are riding with roadies you don't give up on drop bars. You need the aero to keep up and the narrowness to ride close.

Outside of that I don't see any use for them at all. I'm watching my fitness, not my speed, and if I can do that with a HRM or power meter the speed is not as important. The controls cost a lot and have terrible ergonomics. None of the hand positions are comfortable which is why it’s important there are lots of them. Gravel drops with flares are even worse.

If I wanted to go really fast alone I'd get a TT bike

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Old 08-26-21, 11:24 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by denaffen
OK, so I grew up with BMX bikes and later rode mountain bikes.

And now I have this old Trek 520, and I find myself again not getting along with the vintage-style bars.
If you're not consistently riding the miles where flat bars are a problem, then drop bars are probably unneeded.

Drop bars for me came about because of a necessity. Riding farther and faster. But by that time I had the abs and core strength to support my upper body vs using mostly arms to do so.

I find my self mostly pulling on my bars and then pedaling to keep up with that pull. Huge difference between pushing vs pulling on your drop bars.
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Old 08-26-21, 12:02 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by denaffen
It really wasn't until last year that I spent any time with drop bars, and I find myself just NOT getting along with them. I wonder if I'm just too old, too fat and too set in my ways to get along with them.
Yes.

John
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Old 08-26-21, 12:13 PM
  #32  
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I’ll jump in here, because, like the OP, I’m a late in life arrival to drop bars. Also, started on vintage road bikes.
The typical 40cm ‘classic’ road drops are definitely something that takes some getting used to, and if you’re a bigger rider, having your hands narrower than your shoulders never feels ‘right’

Once I saw a gravel bike with flared bars, and the lever hoods canted towards the center, it made sense. I picked out a 45cm CowChipper and never looked back.

The wider 45cm+ grip at the hoods, plus the rotation allowed by the flared drops, feels a lot more natural, to someone who is used to riding aggressively on ‘straight’ BMX / MTB bars.

That the drops on gravel bars are shallower and flared out makes the transition more of a ‘slide down’ than ‘reach under’ the hoods.
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Old 08-26-21, 12:17 PM
  #33  
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I rarely ride in the drops. I like the multiple hand positions I get on drop bars tho and when I use the drops I can do it. I just don't feel like its very comfortable and for me not very necessary. I can't picture doing the type of rising I do on a bike with flat bars.
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Old 08-26-21, 12:19 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Then what's your actual question?
My question -- what I hoped to get out of the conversation -- was really whether there was something I hadn't tried, or if I needed to tough it out more, or if I've put in the good effort and should give up.

What I've gotten out of the conversation so far:
1. On vintage bars, you can be comfortable on the drops, and MAYBE comfortable on the hoods, but there's no way you're likely to be comfortable on both.
2. On modern bars I should probably make a point of riding the drops more to get used to it, and note if I'm actually in pain or if it just feels weird.
3. If it is pain, I may very well have a fit issue. If it still just feels weird, I may just not get along with drops.
4. Even if I don't get along with drops, it may be worthwhile to have them there, sort of in reserve, should I ever want them. It's not like they're really in the way.
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Old 08-26-21, 12:22 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653
I’ll jump in here, because, like the OP, I’m a late in life arrival to drop bars. Also, started on vintage road bikes.
The typical 40cm ‘classic’ road drops are definitely something that takes some getting used to, and if you’re a bigger rider, having your hands narrower than your shoulders never feels ‘right’

Once I saw a gravel bike with flared bars, and the lever hoods canted towards the center, it made sense. I picked out a 45cm CowChipper and never looked back.

The wider 45cm+ grip at the hoods, plus the rotation allowed by the flared drops, feels a lot more natural, to someone who is used to riding aggressively on ‘straight’ BMX / MTB bars.

That the drops on gravel bars are shallower and flared out makes the transition more of a ‘slide down’ than ‘reach under’ the hoods.
I have issues with the 42s on my Lotuses, but I am getting used to them. Still prefer 44s, but try finding SR Road Custom bars in 44mm.
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Old 08-26-21, 12:36 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by denaffen
So, to maybe rephrase the initial question (given that I know I'm OK with at least some modern drops) -- if you have drop bars and you never use the drops, why have drop bars?
Its more comfortable vs a flat bar.
Stand up and put your arms to your side. Are your hands naturally positioned to hold STI hoods or flat bar grips? <--hint, it should be the first.
Raise your arms up. Are your hands naturally positioned to hold STI hoods or flat bar grips? <--still STI hoods.

Even if you never use the drops, you still have the tops, ramps, and hoods for hand positions.
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Old 08-26-21, 12:41 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by denaffen
My question -- what I hoped to get out of the conversation -- was really whether there was something I hadn't tried, or if I needed to tough it out more, or if I've put in the good effort and should give up.

What I've gotten out of the conversation so far:
1. On vintage bars, you can be comfortable on the drops, and MAYBE comfortable on the hoods, but there's no way you're likely to be comfortable on both.
2. On modern bars I should probably make a point of riding the drops more to get used to it, and note if I'm actually in pain or if it just feels weird.
3. If it is pain, I may very well have a fit issue. If it still just feels weird, I may just not get along with drops.
4. Even if I don't get along with drops, it may be worthwhile to have them there, sort of in reserve, should I ever want them. It's not like they're really in the way.
if you’re comfortable on flat bars just run them or try some alt bars
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Old 08-26-21, 01:01 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Its more comfortable vs a flat bar.
Stand up and put your arms to your side. Are your hands naturally positioned to hold STI hoods or flat bar grips? <--hint, it should be the first.
Raise your arms up. Are your hands naturally positioned to hold STI hoods or flat bar grips? <--still STI hoods.

Even if you never use the drops, you still have the tops, ramps, and hoods for hand positions.
Sure, but also true of other bars. I'm not really interested in some binary split between drop bars and flat bars. I know the limitations of flat bars well.
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Old 08-26-21, 01:09 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by denaffen
Sure, but also true of other bars. I'm not really interested in some binary split between drop bars and flat bars. I know the limitations of flat bars well.
you asked why have drop bars if you dont use the drops. i answered. it appears you are already aware of why.
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Old 08-26-21, 01:10 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by denaffen
My question -- what I hoped to get out of the conversation -- was really whether there was something I hadn't tried, or if I needed to tough it out more, or if I've put in the good effort and should give up.

What I've gotten out of the conversation so far:
1. On vintage bars, you can be comfortable on the drops, and MAYBE comfortable on the hoods, but there's no way you're likely to be comfortable on both.
I’ve tried a lot of stuff. A few random thoughts.

Just about anything can work if you have the core strength to keep weight off your hands and you pedal hard enough to have pull a fair amount of the time.

Combine this with bars close to saddle level and you can have a decent bend in the elbows most all the time and down to parallel when more aero is needed.

I can set up classic round bars to be comfortable everywhere, at least with aero levers (SS, so no brifters needed). it helps to angle the drops up 10 degrees: this is optimal for standing out of the drops and keeps the ramp angle small. That makes the ramps work well and allows a half aero position with the outside of the hand on the ramps and down to the hoods.

For me, the value of drops is: a position to rest some of the arm and core muscles that work a lot in the other positions, better braking leverage and sprinting/standing in a lower and more aero position.

To the extent I don’t care much about standing out of the drops, the braking thing is about a wash except for road racing.

There are some pretty cool alternative bars. One that is good but not common is the hornbar/trekking bar. The Scott AT-3 was an example, and the AT-4 if you ignore the aero position. It gives some of the same options as drops: bar tops for climbing, ramps and forward bends like hoods for cruising and climbing out of the saddle.

Trade off is no drops but you get a sort of aero position with arms on the tops and hands on the forward part. You can still rest some arm and core muscles and be somewhat aero.

I use this bar in preference to drops on my vintage MTB because flat levers works better with the cantilever and u-brakes and the bike handles better with wider bars.

My other bike has classic round drop bars and old school aero levers, but I’m giving serious thought to setting up this style of bar on that bike, too.

YMMV. There are so many things to do with fit, riding style, and personal preference that you will ultimately have to try some stuff and see what works best.

Otto
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Old 08-26-21, 01:10 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by denaffen
So, to maybe rephrase the initial question (given that I know I'm OK with at least some modern drops) -- if you have drop bars and you never use the drops, why have drop bars?
I was going to answer your immediately prior comment but this one serves the purpose. Because the drop bar still provides a range of hand positions including the hood position. Obviously, it provides the top flat position. If you don't use or don't want to use the drops - DON'T. Ignore it. It makes a good "bar end" to attach a mirror. Due to age, stiffness or neck issues I now rarely use the drop but still prefer its options for hand position.
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Old 08-26-21, 01:13 PM
  #42  
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I've ridden flat bars with bar ends for thousands and thousands of miles, and I was thinking hard about going to drops
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Old 08-26-21, 01:26 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by denaffen
My question -- what I hoped to get out of the conversation -- was really whether there was something I hadn't tried, or if I needed to tough it out more, or if I've put in the good effort and should give up.

What I've gotten out of the conversation so far:
1. On vintage bars, you can be comfortable on the drops, and MAYBE comfortable on the hoods, but there's no way you're likely to be comfortable on both.
2. On modern bars I should probably make a point of riding the drops more to get used to it, and note if I'm actually in pain or if it just feels weird.
3. If it is pain, I may very well have a fit issue. If it still just feels weird, I may just not get along with drops.
4. Even if I don't get along with drops, it may be worthwhile to have them there, sort of in reserve, should I ever want them. It's not like they're really in the way.
5. If you like riding the hoods, it probably doesn't matter whether you use the drops or not.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have no interest in telling you what you SHOULD do

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Old 08-26-21, 01:31 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider
I've ridden flat bars with bar ends for thousands and thousands of miles, and I was thinking hard about going to drops

I completely changed from flat bars on all my bikes to drop bars about 2 years ago (really more like 3, but I had a flat bar bike in the stable up to two yrs. ago). I could do the long distances on both, but I have just found the flexibility of a drop bar more fun.
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Old 08-26-21, 01:49 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by denaffen
My question -- what I hoped to get out of the conversation -- was really whether there was something I hadn't tried, or if I needed to tough it out more, or if I've put in the good effort and should give up.

What I've gotten out of the conversation so far:
1. On vintage bars, you can be comfortable on the drops, and MAYBE comfortable on the hoods, but there's no way you're likely to be comfortable on both.
2. On modern bars I should probably make a point of riding the drops more to get used to it, and note if I'm actually in pain or if it just feels weird.
3. If it is pain, I may very well have a fit issue. If it still just feels weird, I may just not get along with drops.
4. Even if I don't get along with drops, it may be worthwhile to have them there, sort of in reserve, should I ever want them. It's not like they're really in the way.
That's a reasonable summary.

Because I'm pedantic and particular, I would argue that #1 is not so much an absolute - initially I had difficulty with the vintage bars on my Lotuses, especially with the long drop to the drops, but I made an effort to get used to them and I'm now much more comfortable there. Not as comfortable as I am on modern short reach/short drop bars, but not uncomfortable. I use the drops less on the vintage bars, but I do use them.

One thing I've noticed about the bikes of the 1980s is that they have shorter stems, but the bars have more reach. For example, both my Lotuses are 57cm frames, but they came with 80mm stems, and bars with 95mm reach. Modern bikes that size tend to come with 100-110mm stems, and bars with 75mm reach. Overall, the same reach to the hoods. The drops, though, are 145mm vs 125mm on the modern bars. I think the change really happened in the last 10-15 years, at least in part so that riders would use the drops more if they were more comfortable to use.
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Old 08-26-21, 02:04 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by denaffen
My question -- what I hoped to get out of the conversation -- was really whether there was something I hadn't tried, or if I needed to tough it out more, or if I've put in the good effort and should give up.
Have you ever tried clip-on aero bars? I will only do centuries if I have my Profile Design aerobars installed (there's many designs to choose from, but that's a subject for another thread). They're great for taking the pressure COMPLETELY off numb or sore palms, yet still allows you to steer, as well as taking pressure off the triceps, shoulders, and lower back. But be warned, they WILL make the steering squirrely when you're using them, and really shouldn't be used while you're directly next to or passing other riders, because of that fact. As well as not using them while drafting since you're hands are about as far away from the brakes as possible. Though if you really, really liked them, it's possible to get aerobars with shifters and brake levers on the ends, and you'll look like a time trialist.

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Old 08-26-21, 02:14 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta
...stem slammed and their bars 4" below their saddle...
I remember those days. Tight in a tuck. Head down. Trusting my sew ups to stay on the rim...

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Old 08-26-21, 02:27 PM
  #48  
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I especially like drops for descents. Much safer but it can take a few rides to be comfortable if you aren't accustomed. Obviously, nobody here cares what kind of bars you use.
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Old 08-26-21, 02:31 PM
  #49  
delbiker1 
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The point I would stop using drop bars is when/if I cannot ride a bike anymore. I use compact bars with around 75mm reach and 125 drop. I really like the Zipp Service Course 70 and 80. I like the Soma Highway One, also. I have an Orbea branded compact, do not know who actually makes it, that is very comfortable for me. I ride in the drops quite a bit, and I change hand positions frequently, using pretty much the whole bar and hoods. I used Profile aero bars years ago, but with chronic back and shoulder issues it became too aggressive of a position.
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Old 08-26-21, 02:36 PM
  #50  
genejockey 
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Originally Posted by zandoval
I remember those days. Tight in a tuck. Head down. Trusting my sew ups to stay on the rim...

"...old men will dream dreams."
Eh, 4" isn't that much, if you're tall and have long arms.....
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