t2p

they might have gone too far with this tire

casing and the tread thickness might actually be less than optimum - and puncture resistance and durability below the line
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Kapusta

Seeing as RC's post was a response to my question, I'll point a few things out:

One takeaway is that you are not going to find some particular test that verifies the reliability of the drum test method (this was one of the arguments I was engaged in in that thread). The data he is basing his conclusion on is spread out over a year or so of discussion in Slowtwitch. I personally don't feel the need to dig through all that, but the guy is certainly credible, and I am willing to take his word on his findings.

What I also got was the series of verification tests (which verified the drum tests as a reliable predictor of the ranking of different tires) was on road racing tires for that application. What I am still unclear about is if this have been done for larger tires (Touring and Gravel) and/or on rougher or gravel/dirt roads.

But what drum test do seem to show (from what I can see from the non-pro verison) is the the RH Superlight Casing is pretty darn fast. Which does jive with my experience with them.

Kapusta

I've had many RH/Compass with the EL casings and they have held up fine on rough gravel roads. The tread itself is sufficiently thick. The main drawback IMO is that they have do not have a great track record tubeless. They seem to have fixed the blowing-off-the-rim issue a couple years ago, but I found that mine would not reliably hold air after about a year, even though there was still plenty of tread left. Went back to tubes.

I don't think they went too far, though. If there is another tire that rides like that, I am not aware of it. Its just the price you gotta pay for that. If you don't want to deal with the issues that come with such a high performance tire (and I may not want to again myself), there are a gazillion other options, including some of their other casings.

rsbob 

It’s one thing to have fast low rolling resistance tires, but if they are not properly inflated, then you are unnecessarily losing speed/watts. Go to the Silca site and use their tire pressure calculator for all types of tires and road/non-road conditions plus many other factors. Correct pressures do make a significant difference as well - and put the two together…..

WhyFi

Yeah, my suspicion is that tires, of a similar class (apples-to-apples comparison), are going to remain in the same order as the drum test, more or less, when they're on the same outdoor surface. When you start comparing tires of significantly different volume, which will allow/require significantly different pressure, you're going to start seeing real world results that are different because of the suspension losses (which is marked by the impedance breakpoint in those discussions, if I'm not mistaken).

As far as the OP - essentially gravel tires on pavement - I don't see why the drum rankings wouldn't be preserved.

t2p

standard casing might be a better choice (for puncture resistance / durability) ?

Kapusta

Puncture resistance? No. The tread on the EL casing is not thin (3mm I believe), and the Standard casing is not any thicker. If you want meaningfully more puncture protection than the EL casing, you will be looking at tires that are a lot heavier and slower, and not the ones being suggested as fast rolling in this thread.

It is the sidewalls that are super thin on the EL casings. If you are hard on sidewalls, then that is a consideration. Tread life is fine on the EL and all of the sidewalls on the EL casings I've used have lasted as long as the treads.

IMO, the whole point of RH tires is the EL casing. That is the secret sauce to the way they perform and feel. If you are going to get the standard casing for the thicker sidewalls, I am not sure there is any advantage over several other tires mentioned in this thread.

Fredo76

+1 on 35mm Continental TerraSpeed

They have a 40mm too, but it's a little heavier.

Paul Barnard

Seems I have read several conversations here (mainly in road cycling) where a lot of riders said that tire weight doesn't matter.

vespasianus

Yeah, continental seems to have a really fast rubber.

Paul Barnard

I just spooned some 700x35 Conti Contact Urban tires on my gravel bike. These are wire bead only tires that are comparatively heavy. There is not much info out there on them. Bicycle Rolling Resistance likes them quite well. They have about as good a combination of rolling resistance and flat protection as I have seen. Given that puncture protection is my #1 consideration, getting reasonable rolling resistance with it is bonus. I'll ride them after dinner and report back.

csport

Also the new Everwear: https://www.somafab.com/archives/pro...-everwear-tire
It claims to have the same puncture protection layer as Shikoro and a bit more tread for longer wear. Also comes with a regular black sidewall.

I really liked Vittoria Voyager Hypers, but they are discontinued.

Also Conti Speed RIDE.

rekmeyata

I think tire weight matters a lot! I had a pair of Kenda Drumlin K-Shield Plus 700x45c tires that came on my touring bike, those things weighed about 1,300 grams EACH! I just bought a pair of 700x38c Schwalbe Marathon Almotion tires (the back tire is a V Guard for more flat protection, and the front is a Race Guard, the average weight is 637 grams a piece, a pair of those Almotion tires weigh less than one of the Kenda Drumlin tires!! And let me tell you, I can feel the difference on my very first ride, they feel livelier, they roll better, get up to speed faster, and ride smoother even though they're 7 mm narrower using higher PSI! So yes, weight matters a lot.

On my previous touring bike, I had 27x1 1/4 Schwalbe Marathon GreenGuard (now called just Marathon), those things were also heavy, not as heavy as the Kenda's but not much lighter, about 450 grams lighter per tire is all. They rode like I had attached bricks to my wheels and were slow like the Kenda's but the Kenda's did roll a bit smoother, but they lasted forever and I never got a flat, they were a very durable tire if you don't mind the weight and the harsh ride.

You have to decide if you want comfort over durability, or vice versa; I wanted comfort because on my touring bike I spend 4 to 6 hours a day on the saddle, day after day, so anything I can do to get a better ride I will do. I could have stayed with a fatter 45c tire for a smoother ride due to lower psi, but those do weigh more which means more pedaling effort, and I really didn't see a need for such a wide tire. Now my fenders fit a lot better, the old fatter Kenda's I had to fiddle with the adjustment on the fenders every day because I only had 1/8th of inch clearance, now I have a 1/2 inch of clearance and I don't have to constantly be adjusting the fenders to keep them from hitting the tires.

Paul Barnard

I just got back from a test spin on these things. As a point of reference, the replaced Clement Strada LGG 700x32 road tires. As another point of reference, the best tires I have ever run are Conti GP4000 S2 tires in size 700x28.. The ride wasn't a thorough shakedown, as a thunderstorm is approaching. I rode them only on broken concrete streets up to about 20 MPH. They roll as well as the much lighter Clement tires. At 75 PSI (94 is max on these) they were compliant and not dead feeling.

Bottom line: I can see why Bicycle Rolling Resistance liked these. If they live up to their substantial puncture resistance rating, I am going to be thrilled. Interestingly BRR rated these a 5 of five and the Clements a 2 of 5. In terms of performance, these weren't that much better.

As it relates to the OP, I'd call them fast. Not the fastest, but satisfyingly fast.

fishboat

Thanks again to all sharing their experience here. Some great discussion and new-to-me options for tires.

rekmeyata

Just keep it simple, I think you're over complicating the issue. All you have to do is see which tires are the highest rated for road/gravel use, or whatever the use is for. If you want gravel use tire the Gravelkings always take top billing or darn near it. There are hundreds of tires out there, but most don't do well in reviews, so look at the reviews for yourself and make a decision. Just keep it simple.

I did the over thinking process myself just these last couple of months trying to find a fishing rod, it was pain, then when I made a decision, the rod wasn't available! ERGH!! A friend of mine who fishes a lot told me what I'm telling you...I was over thinking it. So, I went back to Sportsman Warehouse and spoke to a fishing pro and he directed me to a specific rod, but they were out of stock! However, he found one at another location so he had it sent to my house directly and I paid for it there online using their computer. Wam bam thank you ma'am I got my rod. I checked online reviews for the rod and it did get very high reviews which led me to buy it, plus the decision was helped by the pro had switched to this rod, and so did ALL the employees there that fish. So, I'm confident that this rod will be very good, I used it once since I got it but didn't even get a nimble! Fishing at its finest!!!

Anyway, don't stress over it, if whatever tire you decide on you don't like for one reason or another, look at it this way, in about 3,000 miles those tires will be shot anyways, so you can try the second tire on your list or on the reviews. I rarely buy the same tire brand twice anyways; I just get whatever is on sale! Except on the touring bike, there are not too many options for a really good touring tire, so I will probably stay with Schwalbe Marathon Amotion tires since I really like those tires for that purpose. But on the road bikes? nah, just whatever decent tire that can I find on sale.

Polaris OBark

I've been riding them for several years now with great success on and off road. Both paved and unpaved surfaces here are pretty gnarly, but I've not had any issues. For awhile they were producing some Barlow Pass versions that had more than the specced tread thickness, FWIW. These are robust tires.

msu2001la

I'm pretty sure a Porsche 911 Turbo towing a travel trailer will still be faster than an AMG E63 wagon towing a travel trailer.

Paul Barnard

I have now put about 60 miles on the Conti Contact Urban 700x35s and can't say enough good about them. Not quite GP 4000s, but given the much lower cost and the better puncture rating, I may have found tire nirvana for a fast all arounder.

fishboat

Thx for reporting back. (relating) Your experience is why I asked the question. Sounds like a good tire to check into next time around.

I've been running 700x38mm GK slicks on a number of bikes for the last few years and found them to be a very nice, fast all-rounder tire. Friends like them too. Last fall I built/rebuilt a bike and mounted some 700x35mm Schwalbe Marathon Supremes on it. Also, a very nice tire. Fast and great (road/rail trail) tire with a great ride. I'm hoping to get more miles out of them than the GKs. They feel very different than the GK slicks. I like them a lot. They make 40 or 42mm version that I hope fit on the bike. Your Contact Urbans sound similar. I'll have to pick up a pair and try them out.

gorillimo

Running 42c Conti Speed Rides. Been good. Roll better then the original Knards. Good on roads, decent on trails. Comfortable riding.

Aladin

Tissue paper bike tires... LOL.

Sy Reene

Yeah, not sure why Vittoria seems to have dropped their fast touring tires. I think before the Hypers it was the Randonneur Pro, a 120tpi fast and grippy tire. They don't seem to have anything in this vein any longer.

rekmeyata

The highest torque output for the 911 is 590 foot pounds, that's quite a bit. The MBZ has the same at 590. The MBZ puts out 603 horses, while the Porsche puts out 640 hp. So based on those two bits of facts the edge goes to Porsche but barely. However, there is more to the equation, such as gearing, if one of those cars has a lower gear ratio that car would probably win, but barely.

Having said that there is one major issue that supersedes the torque and horsepower rating, it's called towing capacity. The max towing capacity that a Porsche can tow is ZERO weight; the max towing capacity of the MBZ is 4,629 pounds.

In this race the MBZ wins by a landslide.

sjanzeir

If you had an AMG E63 wagon, then you probably won't be needing to tow a travel trailer with a 911 Turbo. (I wanted to make a comment about how a Chevy Suburban 7400/8100 would probably be able to tow both German conveyances and the trailer, but I already wasted that one on another thread involving a Prius.)