NJgreyhead

Recently New Jersey passed a law making it mandatory for motor vehicles to give bicyclists at least four feet of room. Great.

However, I usually see cyclists on a clean 6-foot (or wider) shoulder riding all the way left, close to the shoulder line. Why? To be in compliance, cars then need to go over their left-hand lane line / center line (and maybe rumble strips) unnecessarily, because the four feet of clearance can come from the cyclists if they are considerate riders.

I drive a car and ride a bike. "Share the road" should work both ways.

ClydeClydeson

Because debris - dirt, radial tire wires, glass, etc, gets kicked to the right edge of the road by cars. We are literally riding in a debris field left by cars, and the furtehr right we go the worse it is.

FYI, the word 'share' implies we each have to concede a bit of what we would ideally have to ourselves, and that might mean you need to *gasp* move over slightly for other road users.

tomato coupe

You could have a 20 foot shoulder and some cyclists would still ride far left.

I-Like-To-Bike

Some ardent self described bicycling safety advocates, who insist that they are "bicycle drivers" entitled to drive their bicycle like any other vehicle, might choose to ride in the middle of a traffic lane no matter what facilitity or shoulder is adjacent.

Paul Barnard

How would any of us know why?

jon c. 

Don't know about the shoulders up there but where I ride the shoulders tend to get visually imperceptible waves as you get closer to the edge. Pavement is really a fluid and over time with heat it changes shape. Especially on the north or east shoulders. So although the shoulder may look perfectly fine, I'm hugging the right lane of the road because that's where the best road surface is.

RCMoeur 

One thing I would tell people in my cycling skills classes is: "Don't jeopardize your safety for someone else's convenience." If you can be polite in using the roadway, do so, but not if it means putting yourself at significant risk. One principle of traffic law and operation is that an operator of a vehicle or other conveyance is responsible for choosing their roadway position - that decision is not up to others.

Another issue I've noted is that roadway hazards such as glass, cracks, oil, or similar are readily visible at riding speed, but much more difficult to discern at motor travel speeds.

On the subject of passing offset: About a decade or so ago, there was a push to adopt signs depicting a motor vehicle and end-on bicyclist and a minimum distance between them, such as this:



After a similar sign was installed on a street near me, I had a policeman pull me over and instruct me that the sign clearly stated that I must stay at least 3 feet from motor vehicles under all conditions, even if that meant riding on the sidewalk or in the dirt. Fortunately, newer signs recommended for this situation don't seem to convey such unintended messages.

Steve B.

Theres a concept that you want to be visible and seen by a driver coming up behind you. If you stay all the way over in the shoulder, near the curb, a motorist sees you and thinks "oh, they are not in my lane" and forgets about you and leaves little passing room, where as if you are riding closer to the white line, they tend to worry and realize you are closer to the lane they are driving in, thus they will be more cautious and give you some passing room. Anybodies guess if it works or not.

Mtracer

I tend to ride closer to traffic because of the debris that builds up on the sides of the road. I have a mirror and Varia RADAR and if possible move away from traffic as cars pass. More room is better. However, I do like to keep a little extra room to move away from traffic at the last moment if needed. Meaning, if I move as far as I can away from traffic, then I have nowhere else to go if a car appears it will buzz me. So, keeping a little something to the side seems prudent for a last moment move to create more space.

Regardless of where I am, I find that the vast majority of drivers move well away from me, especially on rural highways. When they can.

There is one major road where I live that carries a lot of traffic (2 lanes in each direction) at 50 MPH. But has a very wide shoulder. Like, for a 3rd lane to be added to each side. This shoulder doesn't accumulate much debris, so in this case I get well away from traffic. Probably 6 feet from the fog line and of course more from the actual vehicles.

Recently an experienced rider told me that he believes if a driver sees you take a small action, such as moving a bit away from the road, they are more likely to do the same. I think there is some merit to this. While I don't agree that this is mature thinking, I can see a driver thinking, something along the lines, "if the guy on the bike doesn't care, why should I?"

FBinNY 

FWIW - in most states the shoulder is NOT considered to be part of the road.

Personally, I don't make my lane position decisions based on rights, but rather on what's most practical. Usually that means, I'm riding the roadway about 1/3 into the lane.

I do that not to assert any rights, but to be in the sightlines of approaching drivers. Depending on traffic conditions I'll move over as I hear them slowing and if oncoming traffic is heavy I'll squeeze right to create a passing opportunity.

Having thousands of miles in dense traffic, I don't mind very close passes, but I do want the driver to slow down before he tries to squeeze by.

IMO 4' is still too close at 60mph, while 2' is plenty at 20mph.

rumrunn6

reminds me, when I was bike commuting year 'round. one winter in crummy weather, meaning w/ snow, etc, I sometimes had to ride in the right wheel track. most drivers were just fine driving around me

RB1-luvr

When I have to ride further out in the lane for safety and I hear a car coming from behind, I point down at the reason repeatedly. Most motorists understand then, that I'm going around glass or something they cannot see.

GhostRider62

If the shoulder is good, I ride there but a NJ supreme court case basically gave us a Hobson's choice on the matter. Shoulders are not maintained.


https://law.justia.com/cases/new-jer...Essex%20County.

Daniel4

The OP's post is another example why I advocate for bicycle lessons to be a requirement to obtain a driver's licence.

Drivers should know the saftey reasons why cyclists do the things they do. Why don't they ride in the bike lane?; Why do cyclists ride so far to the left?; Why do cyclists take the lane?

Iride01 

I wouldn't be in the shoulder unless state law required me to be in the shoulder. Or I was stopped for an emergency. Which is the purpose of shoulders in most states.

RCMoeur 

In Arizona, ARS 28-3164.B.1(c) requires testing of "knowledge of safe driving practices and the traffic laws of this state, including those practices and laws relating to bicycles." However, looking at the practice driving tests on the ADOT MVD website, only practice test #3 contains questions regarding bicyclist operation on roadways. As I recall from my son's description of his recent taking of the actual test, there were bike-related questions, but of a very general nature.

GhostRider62

It depends on the state and the state of the roads. OP rides on Southern NJ where the road surface is good but so are the shoulders, very good. When I am down there, I never ever ride on the road, I stay on the very wide and generally nice shoulder. One of the roads I ride often has a good shoulder for 80-90% of it. Where the shoulder is broken, very small, and filled with garbage, I stay just to the left of the fog lane observing my mirror and garmin varia. Going out into the lane with 60mph texting idiots is asking for an earlier death.

Daniel4

I guess if the test reflected more challenging situations that are found in real life, the failure rate would increase and there would be a backlash from the general population. It'll be like red-flag indicators in that topic we're not allowed to discuss here and why the latest legislation passed is so watered down.

Iride01 

I've seen plenty of texting idiots or otherwise distracted drivers wandering fully into the shoulder. So I wouldn't assume my demise to be any earlier because of me not riding in the shoulder.

And I doubt there are any statistics we can find for whether a cyclist was injured already parsed to whether riding in the traffic lane or on the shoulder when hit. That'd take some reading through individual accident reports and compiling the info. If that amount of detail was even given in the report.

indyfabz

Yeah. South Jersey is better than a helluva lot of places, but there are some things you have to be conscious of. Sand is a big one in certain areas of Burlington, Atlantic and Cumberland Counties. Fortunately, if you know where to look, you can find a lot of shoulderless roads with very little traffic. I’ve led a ride in rural Cumberland County countless times. There some stretches where it’s very rare to encounter any vehicles for miles.

livedarklions

Both of these things can be true. Generally, though, if I have a choice, I'm not going closer than 3 feet from the edge. The pavement and debris both tend to get worse any closer to the edge. Also, I find that the width of shoulders tend to vary somewhat randomly from mile to mile, and I prefer keeping a straight line where practical.

livedarklions

Not the subject of this thread. Take it to the moribund subforum above.

livedarklions

This is the reason a lot of municipalities are taking down their "share the road" signs. Drivers are reading it as a requirement for cyclists to get out of their way which was the opposite of the intent. It's supposed to be a reminder to drivers that there are frequently situations where they have to share the lane with cyclists.

Gotta say, if there's a right hook possibility approaching, being too far to the right is a very real problem.

GhostRider62

Dead men tell no lies.

Some things are obvious, didn't your mamma tell you not to play in traffic. The type of roads of which OP speaks have traffic travelling at 6-70 mph (speeding) with some up and downs thereby limiting line of sight to some degree. Almost w/o exception they have wide, good shoulders. Any cyclist riding in the road there just enrages motorists. Rightfully so. I totally understand and support OP's point of view.

NH or Mass? Everyone is an idiot up there, so, I can't comment despite enduring a large portion of my cycling life up there

Iride01 

You are assuming a worst case road traffic scenario. The OP gave no example of this being a worst case situation on a road. So you come off sounding like someone too timid a scared to stand up for your rights to ride on the road you are entitled to ride on.

I'm not saying that a person should willy nilly cycle on any road. It's always an assumption that one will use their own judgement and common sense when they chose a road to ride on. There are roads that I avoid as both a cyclist and motorist when possible.

And there are roads with 65 mph speed limits here that I cycle on with no issue whatsoever. They have a shoulder, but I stay in the traffic lane. Admittedly I'm not on them often because they aren't really the best route for anywhere I wish to cycle for recreation and fitness.