Eric F 

Okay. I’m my not trying change anyone’s mind.

Eric F 

You’re still not getting it. Intentionally, I suspect at this point.

smd4

Oh...I definitely "get it."

PeteHski

Tell me your “opinion” is not derisory or expressing ridicule here. It just makes you look foolish and insecure. You don’t have to try to justify your C&V preference by deriding modern bikes and equipment. It’s pathetic.

Atlas Shrugged

Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
We can’t all like everything. My opinion is that modern black plastic bikes with hidden cables and disc brakes and underinflated semi-mountain bike tires are butt-ugly, and I would never, ever own one.


Well all this silliness makes sense now. What we are talking about is Imprinting. Trying to debate logic or reason on any modern cycling technology is a waste of time in your case. “In psychology and ethology, imprinting is any kind of phase-sensitive learning (learning occurring at a particular age or a particular life stage) that is rapid and apparently independent of the consequences of behaviour. It was first used to describe situations in which an animal or person learns the characteristics of some stimulus, which is therefore said to be "imprinted" onto the subject. Imprinting is hypothesized to have a critical period.”

Obviously you form a bond with bikes of the 70’s and early 80’s and can’t see yourself riding anything else, that’s great but trying to rationalize this through logic is where your case keeps falling apart.

GhostRider62

GCN rim vs disc test mirrors my experience.

I don't really care for the lack of modulation compared to rim brakes and do have to think when apply them especially when going fast on bumpy roads.

phughes

So, have we settled this? I mean, will disc brakes stop the bike? Will they? I mean will they? Will they stop a bicycle? Will they?

smd4

Thanks for the (free) psychoanalysis, Sigmund.

Maelochs

Disc brakes will stop the bike .... but they will also cut the limbs off of every member of the peloton.

Proven Fact (by BF standards.)

Eric F 

Comments like this continue to puzzle me. It doesn’t match with my disc brake experience at all. Both of my disc-brake equipped bikes are primarily ridden in the dirt, and very regularly on terrain where modulation control is critical for my safety. There is definitely a different lever feel between my rim brake bikes and disc brake bikes, but no lack of modulation control with disc brakes. Does this vary from different manufacturers? Both of my disc brake bikes use Shimano brakes (XTR, Ultegra).

smd4

He must be wrong.

Eric F 

The wounds will be cauterized because discs are always blazing hot. It’s a feature.

Eric F 

I didn’t say he’s wrong. I said my own experience has been different. Is it in the equipment, or in the user? I don’t know, and I’m curious why that would be.

smd4

You didn’t have to.

Eric F 

It says a lot that you can only see it that way.

I’m genuinely curious about why GR62’s experience is different than mine, and what factors might be contributing to that difference.

tomato coupe

I think a large majority of cyclists that have used hydraulic disc brakes will say they have really good modulation.

Maelochs

Seems to be the case on most bike forums I frequent .... and I have never heard a cyclsit using hydro discs say otherwise. I have heard cyclists say that once they went hydro disc they would never go back because they were so much better ..... but I didn't say that. I think for most ride-riding situations, "brakes" (whichever of the various modern systems,) works fine.

No denying hydro discs clamp a lot harder and can be controlled with less and finer amount of energy.

I suspect the GCN guys were grabbing big handfuls of brake as if they were cable rim brakes, when one finger might have been enough.

There is a reason most MTB brake levers are only a couple inches long.

seypat

Do hydros have adjustable levers? With a cable actuated something, you have some degree of adjustability built in.

GhostRider62

Come ride my bike?

SRAM AXS Red HRD brakes.

The initial grab is very high compared to rim brakes. Let's say you want to feather the brakes going into a bumpy corner, it takes some thought and care meaning very little lever movement results in a lot of braking force compared to rim brakes. The difference is very apparent to me. On a positive note, did you watch the video? From a performance perspective, I would guess my descent times on Stelvio would be vastly improved (in theory).

smd4

Excellent question.

Kapusta

In my experience, disc brakes generally give me better control, especially on loose surfaces.

It does vary from one model to another, but in my experience, every disc I’ve owned (BB7, XT, SLX, Magura MT7, and some older Hayes and Juicies) has been at least equal to rim brakes in this regard…. Most are better. The MT7s are sublime. Whenever I go back to any of the other brakes, I notice how much more of my brain is dealing with braking.

PeteHski

So a very clear result in the video. No question hydraulic disc brakes have better performance on technical alpine descents and even more so if it's wet. The only slight surprise to me in that video was the significantly shorter stopping distance on the disc brakes in both dry and wet conditions - which strongly implies that rim brakes are actually power limited at high speed (he was stopping from 53 kph) and not capable of reaching the limit of tyre grip at those speeds even in the wet. Thinking back to my own fading experience of wet braking on fast descents I do recall rim brakes feeling woefully under-powered and slow to respond.

As there is no mention of lack of modulation in the video, I presume that comment was from your personal experience. Maybe your brakes have some issue (bleeding, pad contamination?), since accurate and consistent modulation is one of the primary advantages of hydraulic brakes. I've been using hydraulic disc brakes since 2004 in mtb and since 2019 on road bikes. Modulation has always been a strong point. Perhaps I've been lucky, but I really haven't had any major issues with disc brakes over 19 years of use on many different bikes. Only my mtb brakes have required the odd bleed.

Kapusta

I can only speak for MTB (and Road mech)…..

Mechanicals are adjustable at the lever in all the same ways as rim brakes. Not surprising since they use the same levers.

With hydro, all the ones I’ve owned had a reach adjustment. Some also have a free-stroke adjustment. What they do not have is a way to adjust the leverage ratio, like you find in Avid Speed Dial mechanical levers.

PeteHski

I presume you know those particular brakes have a bite point adjuster under the hoods? If you are finding the initial bite too aggressive, try backing off on the adjuster. Note that there is also a second adjuster for lever position/reach - which is independent of bite point.

PeteHski

The higher-end ones do yes. My SRAM Force AXS levers have both lever reach and bite point adjustment.