Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Imagine that. Someone that understands physics at a deep level not appreciating someone arguing about a simple, well established physics principle. Drunk or not, he was correct.

Originally Posted by Jeff Neese

Perfect example is the Cambridge guy, whose video was used to show something completely different than what we're talking about (countersteering and what keeps a bicycle upright - not the topic) but a couple people latched onto that in an effort to prove something completely different. He may be an expert in some things, but he had nothing to say about rotating mass vs static mass, now did he?

Science seeks to explain observable phenomenon. Think "Hey - that's funny. I wonder why that is. Let's find out." And then take the fact of how differently a bike actually handles when you add or subtract weight from the wheel, observing how different that is than the same weight on the frame, and then devising ways to explain or quantify that. In this case, there's no need to do that because the physics are already well understood. So-called experts like Isaac Newton have already told us that there should be a difference, and then the first time we swap heavy wheels for light ones and hop on the bike, we say "Wow. That Newton guy really knew what he was talking about."

Comparing two sets of loudspeakers, there may be fairly significant differences in how they sound, and those characteristics can be calculated by the engineer as part of the design and then measured from the actual speaker after it's built. Yet despite their significant objective differences, one person might say "They sound the same to me - I'll go with the cheaper ones" while someone else might say "Wow - that's quite a difference and I like Speaker B much better." Different people hear differences in different things. Some people can taste things that others can't, or detect subtle color differences that might look the same to others. Some people can feel the difference in rotating weight and others can't. No shame - just go ride what you have.

For anyone reading through this very interesting thread (one of the better ones lately) I would say only this. Just try it. If you have a "gravel bike" or something with beefy but heavy tires and can find a way to try out a set of lightweight road bike wheels, you'll understand. Weight matters on the outside diameter of the wheels. A lot.

Originally Posted by Daniel4

Because bad driving is dangerous. Remove cyclists from the road and pedestrians still get killed as well as other drivers. Eliminate bad drivers and everybody is safe.

If there are records kept for cyclist self injuries or self collision stats, they'd be insignificant. But for cars? It's not uncommon on Friday or Saturday nights, someone somewhere gets into a single car collision.

So if someone thinks cycling is dangerous, better to look at driving instead.

Originally Posted by GhostRider62

0. Real cyclists only ride uprights

Originally Posted by terrymorse

Not a myth.

Originally Posted by elcruxio

Does it have to be mechanical world? Works just fine on the underside of skis.

Originally Posted by Jeff Neese

If you have a "gravel bike" or something with beefy but heavy tires and can find a way to try out a set of lightweight road bike wheels, you'll understand. Weight matters on the outside diameter of the wheels. A lot.

Originally Posted by Polaris OBark

How about "recumbents are better than DF bicycles" and only Big DiamondFrame keeps this truth suppressed.

Originally Posted by big john

What are you trying to say? Do you think there is gyroscopic effect at 3mph? How about 2mph?

Originally Posted by rydabent

A flat ski is NOT a machine with moveable parts.

Originally Posted by MoAlpha

Correct.



Correct.

Allz I meant above was that thirst and relative dehydration are normal and tolerable in vigorously exercising humans and I wasn't referring to water intoxication.

Originally Posted by rydabent

[Wax works as a chain lube] Most certainly is [a myth]. Show me any other machines that are lubed with wax. Totally a cycling myth.

Originally Posted by GhostRider62

All these years, I have been using the widest tires possible on my off road rigs. What a mistake. And when traction is an issue, I increase the patch by airing down until the tire is almost flat. If you increase contact patch area as I wrote, traction improves. If the contact patch area does not increase, neither does traction.

Originally Posted by rydabent

Most certainly is. Show me any other machines that are lubed with wax. Totally a cycling myth.

Originally Posted by GhostRider62

Thanks you. I never said you were lying, just using facts. For instance, this is what the CDC wrote....



This could mean 25% of cyclists had alcohol in their blood AND 33% of the motorists who ran them over. What about the other 75%? And how do we know alcohol had any relationship to cause of death.

The vast majority of deaths are failure to yield, being mowed down from behind on fast secondary roads, and lack of visibility (the hoodie case). And, it is almost always the fault of the motorist. In Europe, the liability generally falls on the motorist automatically.

The myth of the mowed down cyclist being drunk, wearing a black hoodie, no lights, no reflective gear, weaving into traffic, and blowing thru intersections protects us mentally. The majority of cycling deaths are men 60+ and they are not drunk nor are they wearing black hoodies.

Originally Posted by terrymorse

Myth: Drinking an Oral Rehydration Solution (ORS) during exercise reduces cramping.

Reality: Maybe not a myth, after all.

One small study (funded by the manufacturer of the ORS drink used) had men run downhill in the heat while drinking either spring water or ORS. After the run, the subject's calf muscles were stimulated electrically at increasing frequency until they cramped up. The subjects who drank ORS were less susceptible to cramping than the ones who drank spring water.

Originally Posted by GhostRider62

Yes, increasing contact patch does not improve traction.......where? Inside the vacuum of a sealed vodka bottle?

All these years, I have been using the widest tires possible on my off road rigs. What a mistake. And when traction is an issue, I increase the patch by airing down until the tire is almost flat. If you increase contact patch area as I wrote, traction improves. If the contact patch area does not increase, neither does traction.

Yes, well established like taking sodium supplements wards off cramping and EAH

Why do lower pressure wide tires like Rene Herse descent so well, aside from better suspension characteristics? It is the massive contact patch. In the rain? Way, way better than 25 mm at 100 psi. Not even close.

Originally Posted by wolfchild

I ride my mountain bike on pavement, how obnoxious is that ?

Originally Posted by MoAlpha

Interesting and a prospective design. If one wanted to attack the study, there's the industry funding, the fact that these are electrically stimulated, not "naturally occurring" cramps, the very small sample and lack of a power analysis, and the inappropriate use of parametric statistics in such a small sample. Aggregate data are also pretty meaningless in a sample this small and it would be nice to see an association between the blood measures and cramp threshold across individuals. When individual data are hidden in a tiny study, one suspects very few individuals may be carrying the means. Still, I won't dismiss the findings out of hand.

Originally Posted by terrymorse

Yes, interesting but not quite a study to "hang your hat on". It seems curious that they couldn't correlate the tendency to cramp with blood electrolyte values:

Originally Posted by Jeff Neese

What's the debate? Whether we need electrolytes to remain properly hydrated? Or whether the sports drink industry is peddling myths and are overmarketing their products as being necessary for proper performance?

I drink Sole water each day. Intermittent fasting requires attention to hydration and electrolyte levels, and rather than having to buy expensive electrolyte supplements, the recommended solution is Sole water. Himalayan Salt is a lot cheaper and provides the all-important sodium, as well as traces of other electrolytes. The cellular processes that require sodium and other electrolytes are well understood so that shouldn't be in doubt. We need electrolytes to utilize and regulate the water that our cells need for life. Problems occur if electrolyte levels fall too low.

Gatorade does contain electrolytes and legitimately hydrates better than plain water, but it also has sugar in it and other things. Aren't there artificial flavors and colors in it? That green color doesn't look natural, at all. And the taste - yuck. Maybe they made it taste like medicine on purpose, so you'd know it was "good for you".

Originally Posted by Jeff Neese

How many bikes do you personally own on which you actually swap wheelsets back and forth? And what is the difference in weight between those two wheelsets?