wolfchild

Myth: You need a protein shake right after your ride and workout, within a 10 minute time window. Without a protein shake your body won't recover.

Myth: You can't get enough protein and electrolytes from eating real food, you need supplements.

Erzulis Boat 

Casinos are always packed.

tomato coupe

Some people, when in a situation like yours, might think to themselves: "That's odd. My observations don't seem to be consistent with the known laws of physics. I think I'll read up on the subject to gain a deeper understanding and hopefully reconcile what I'm observing with what physics is telling me." Other people just say "Despite being studied by many, many physicists for two centuries, the physics is wrong, and this guy with the Nobel Prize doesn't know what he's talking about."

Erzulis Boat 

I plugged your math into the centrifuge here at the base.

Maelochs

I find it .... wow .... i don't want to say anything disparaging, but to use an automated program to make a model which even I, a math idiot, could see wasn't valid (mass was added evenly from hub to rim, which is not what was being discussed) .... that is just ....w ell, surprising.

I am the King of all Richards and even I can say "I was wrong."

It should be easier when I know and I know everyone else knows ... but i guess not for everybody.

Jeff Neese

What are you saying? That you can (and do) swap wheels between those two bikes?

Jeff Neese

For the record, it's not "my" math. It's Isaac Newton's.

Jeff Neese

Ah, so you say you've discovered a flaw in the model. Congratulations - now you're doing real science. So to correct that, you have to change the model and the calculations. Need me to do that for you, or can you take it from here? Obviously the math is easily available, to anyone.

Maelochs

No dude .... I don't need to plug numbers into formulae I don't understand just to pretend to prove that I am something I am not. I think honesty with myself and with others is really important.

I also think kindness is really important ... though I am learning that one very slowly. That is why I am not disparaging you for doing what you did.

I am lucky in that I have spent a lot of time working with people who were much, much smarter than me. I learned that I could not fool them but I could embarrass myself. Seemed easier to say "I was wrong" than to lie and know everyone knew it.

You might be a lot smarter than me, and you might know a lot more about math and physics. I know a little about life. I know that it is important to be honest, and that learning only comes when I admit that I don't know.

You pick your path.

Jeff Neese

It's the same as with many other things, it's not about whether you have something memorized, it's about knowing that it exists and where to find it. When someone challenged me with "Oh yeah? Show me the math!", it became clear that not everyone knows that these formulas already exist. I just picked an easy source and then copy-and-pasted it in for him. Don't worry - everyone knows these are not my formulas and it would be silly to present them as my own work. These are Isaac Newton's formulas. I thought that part was clear.

tomato coupe

As others have already asked, why are you modeling a wheel as a 13 kg (!) aluminum cylinder?

You've done no such thing. All you've done is calculate the moment of inertia of a massive, poorly modeled wheel.

tomato coupe

You left out the most important -- understanding how to apply the formulas.

terrymorse 

I just remembered one:

Myth: Unless you're a sprinter, weight training won't improve your cycling performance.

Jeff Neese

I have no problems if you think the model is flawed. That's how this process works. But at least now everyone knows that the math does exist and these principles are provable, and now you can feel free to construct your own models and do your own calculations.

The hard part isn't the math anyway. It's how the results of these calculations translate to real-world differences in bicycle handling. That's the tricky part. We've already seen how some people seem to be more in tune with the way their bicycle handles than others. Things get subjective pretty quick.

Jeff Neese

Sure. What I've done in showing a model and the calculations, and with you challenging my model, is called peer review. Now we're getting somewhere - we'll make a scientist out of you yet!

Part of the challenge must always include your corrections. For comparison, use the same 700c wheel and the same rate of acceleration. My prediction is that your corrections will show an even greater difference between the two wheels.

tomato coupe

I'm starting to think you're completely delusional. You've been happily ignoring the physics and math that refutes your ideas, and now you think your half-assed calculations have shown "that the math exists and these principles are provable"? That's laughable.

tomato coupe

Peer review? Your posts get funnier and funnier.

Jeff Neese

I submitted my results to the larger body, with the unspoken invitation to challenge those results. You did challenge those results, also publicly. You don't recognize that as peer review? It's actually a pretty obvious example. Don't quit now - show us what ya' got.

tomato coupe

I've been a reviewer for several physics journals. What's happening here bears little resemblance to peer review -- it's more like grading homework for a freshman physics class.

Trakhak

Peer review entails listening carefully to criticisms, usually from people with greater expertise in the topic, and then going back and redoing the work to address the criticisms in detail and thus strengthen the arguments set forth.

When I worked in the Journals department at the American Society for Microbiology, the rejection rate for initial article submissions was around 80%. I think I can take a guess at which participants in this thread have gone through the peer review process in the real world, where the stakes tend to be high, and which haven't.

Jeff Neese

I think we all know this is not a formally sanctioned peer review body of experts. I'm using the term peer review in a more generic sense. In the business world we talking about proposals or analysis going through "peer review" which is exactly what we're doing here. Making information or data available to a wider audience (our peers) and inviting critique. But that critique can't be just yelling "Hogwash!" with nothing to back it up. So far I haven't seen anyone's alternative mathematical proofs.

Jeff Neese

Can you elaborate? What are the differences you feel, on each bike, when you swap wheels? I'm not challenging you - I understand completely and would say the same about some of my configurations. Sometimes it is a night and day difference. I'm just asking you if you can be more specific.

tomato coupe

We really can't make this any easier for you ...

terrymorse 

Got another one, this one might be controversial.

Myth: A punctured tire with a cut in the casing can only be patched ("booted") temporarily, and the patched tire must be replaced as soon as possible.

ofajen

Do you mean a punctured tube?

Otto