waterguzzler

hi everyone... new member here.

i'm planning to ride, with 2-3 friends, from new york city to montreal this july. the plan is to take bike route 9 up to lake champlain, ride along the east lake shore in vermont, and then into quebec. we're not sure whether to cut back into new york and then cross the border or to just go cross directly from vermont into quebec. we are totally unfamiliar with the route verte and other possible bike routes in quebec, so some advice border crossing options and the way to montreal would be greatly appreciated. if you're willing to share any favorite routes around lake champlain that would be great too.

in preparation for our journey, i am amassing a collection of maps. so far, i've ordered:

1. hudson valley bikeways & trailways map (nysdot)
2. new york state bike route 9 map (nysdot)
3. lake champlain region road map and guide (lake champlain bikeways)
4. 2005 quebec camping guide (camping quebec)

in this thread, michel gagnon mentioned that the official route verte guides are pretty lacking in details, and suggested a provincial map plus mapart "tourist maps". i went to mapart and they had the "quebec recreation map"... i wonder if this was the one he was talking about. also, is there any advantage to getting the official quebec road map from ministere des transports, such as detailed notations of side roads and pavement conditions and such? if not i might as well just get a free quebec map from my local aaa.

we might do semi-loaded touring, because we would like to camp out at least one night, but would also like amenities such as showers and beds and not have to haul too much stuff. we are all students on a limited budget, so if anyone has any tips on where to stay along the way, both campgrounds and motels/inns/hostels, and where to eat or buy groceries, that would be greatly appreciated.

for those who are curious: after a few days in montreal, we're taking amtrak home.

thanks in advance for your advice!

Cyclist0094

Bike route 9 through the Lower Hudson Valley can be a tough ride on some very busy roads. North of Hudson it is a decent ride till Troy where you have ride through some rough areas of town. North of Troy Bike route 9 follows the Hudson river and then the champlain canal all the way to Whitehall NY from Whitehall is a scenic but hilly ride on SR 22 to Ft Ticonderoga. ( My favorite ride !)
From FT Ticonderoga go east on RT 73 and take the ferry across the lake and pick up 74 east till it brings you to Shoreham ( see my clip and paste below for the route from Shoreham ) While NYSDOT did a mostly admirable job on the bike routes , But there are clearly areas where they didn't take the needs of cyclists seriously. The section of Bike route 9 between Ticonderoga and Crown point is narrow, hilly and no fun with lots of fast traffic.

Here is a clip and paste from a similar question I answered recently I think this is a much more interesting and scenic ride than following Bike RT 9. In fact I think NY Rt 22 is now an officially designated bike route when I was driving on it Sunday I saw that new bike symbols had been painted on the shoulder

note: If you saw my other post you will note I have changed the suggested route between Castleton and Vergennes. Rt 30 is really rough between Castelton and Middlebury right now ,that along with the two big hills won't be a pleasant ride. I went through there on Sunday in my car and it was really bad.

" haven't done this route as one whole ride but I have done it as two seperate rides
Leaving NYC on the aqueduct trail or Sawmill river trail ( It follows the parkway)I would hook up with the Harlem River trail through Westchester county This will put you on state RT 22. which takes you through some of the most beautiful areas of NY you will ever see. With a few exceptions such as the 4 mile stretch just south of Lebanon NY, Rt 22 will have a 18"-36" shoulder for you to ride on. Rt 22 will take to you to Salem NY.

NY Rt 22 between Salem and Granville gets narrow and hilly and has a significant amount of truck traffic during the week days . I suggest from Salem you turn NE on Rt 153 to Rupert Vermont it is a really pretty route . From Rupert stay on VT 153 through West Pawlet to it's intersection with Vermont route 30. then follow Route 30 north till you get to Castleton Vt. much of this section has a Rail trail that paralells RT 153 and RT 30 between West Pawlet and Castleton VT , From Castleton. follow RT 30 north to justjust past Hubbardton to Hortonia rd. Turn west on Hortonia rd to the village of Hortonia and route 144 cross 144 onto Ladukes rd to Young road continue north to rt 73. Follow Rt 73 west to Orwell ( great country store in Orwell) Just past Orwell is the interesection of RT 22A go north a couple of miles to Rt 74 west and follow 74 into Shoreham.
From Shoreham VT take Watch point Rd to Lake St(or rd). Go north on Lake Rd following the lake Champlain shoreline several miles to Adams Ferry rd and Panton. east on Adams ferry ( becomes Panton rd) to Vergennes then north on rt 22 through Ferrisburg Vt to a left onto Greenbush road about 2 miles north of Ferrisburg.

Greenbush road will take you to Sherborne Vt In sherborne go east a 1/4 mile and then north onto Spear st into Burlington. (the reason for this is RT 7 has become very busy and is always under construction)

From Burlington if you want to go to Montreal I suggest you take US route 2 through Grand Isle to Rouses Point NY ( beautiful ride) and then follow the signed bike routes and paths into Montreal.

The route between Sherbrooke and Salem NY I rode last summer. From Salem south to NYC I rode that route 3 years ago. I drove from Salem NY to Burlington VT last Sunday "

BTW unless Amtrak has changed the rules (again) in the past month you cannot take your bikes on the train ( Adriondack) call Amtrak to be certain, your other option is to ride Greyhound, no extra for each bike provided they are in boxes like the Bikeshops use. Go to Greyhound's website to verify.

waterguzzler

thanks for the details.

regarding state route 22, how hilly is that? i looked at the topography profile of the bike route 9 map and the middle section northward up until the adirondacks seemed quite flat, but i have no real concept on how state route 22 compares.

geography aside, route 22 sounds very intriguing. how are the food/lodging options along the way?

Magictofu

I did part of your route long ago (15 years ago) along the Richelieu river to Montreal and plan to tour for about a month in Quebec and Eastern Ontario this summer using some of the same roads. Arriving from Champlain Lake, I think your best bet is to follow road 223 along the Richelieu river (most of the trafic is drawn to highway 15 and road 133) until you reach Chambly... From there, you could follow the route verte to Montreal (take plenty of notes on their website - https://www.routeverte.com/ang/index.lasso - ... following the route Verte necessitate some preparation) using mostly cycling paths. To get on the Island, Pont Champlain is a nice option.

Cycling is quite popular here so cycling path are often clogged on weekends... when this happen, it is often better to take the small roads. The AAA road map show very little of those small roads but you might obtain a few maps from the Quebec tourist office (https://www.bonjourquebec.com/anglais/). Write them an email or call them describing your plans and they will send you maps and tourist guides of fairly good quality for free. They have an OK cycling map (in French) for the Monteregie region (from the border to Montreal) which shows all cycling paths but not the roads (!). Their regional guides are quite good too... they list most if not all the lodging possibilities (incl. camping) as well as most attractions such as museum, landmarks and parcs.

Cyclist0094

Route 22 is going to be a little more hilly on the southern end but flatter on the northern end as compared to Bike route 9. I would say it averages out Lodging is available along rt 22 at close enough intervals that you could ride between 50 and 100 mile days. Camping is not a problem above Westchester county.

If you prefer Bike RT 9 One option you can use to avoid the traffic hassles and hills on Bike route 9 between the GW Bridge and Bear mountain is to take the metro north train to Garrison and then ride Bike route 9 north from there.
When Bike Route 9 gets you to fort Ticonderoga, take the ferry across and hook up to my directions at Shoreham VT. if you did that route it would be pretty flat NYC to Canada except for the 25 mile stretch BTW between Whitehall and Ticonderoga which is big long rolling hills but the scenery makes the struggle worth it IMO.(there is a general store about 1/2 way which has decent icecream and offers a break from the climbing
On the Rt 22 route You could also use Metro North to avoid the big hills you will encounter in Southern Putnam county when you are following US route 6 east to hook up with Route 22 . Metro North( harlem line) will put you at the trail head (wassiac)for the harlem valley rail trail that follows Rt 22.

Metro north map, "Hudson" line for bike route 9 , Harlem Line for SR 22
https://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/mnr/gifs/mnrmap.gif

how many miles a day do you guys plan on riding?

waterguzzler

that sounds quite ideal, actually.


actually, we've done nyc to bear mountain to garrison a few times so i'm quite familiar with that section of the route. the only part i really dislike is around jones point where you either have to take the dirt/gravel bypass or the nasty uphill with narrow/nonexistent shoulders. we've gone at a leisurely pace and it took about 6 hours, including stopping at nyack for pizza. and then we'd always take metro north back into the city. one reason i was intrigued by your route 22 suggestion was because i've never been on it before and i think it would be fun to explore.


are you recommending connecting to 22 via 6? i was wondering if there was a good way to get on 22 directly from the bronx. also, someone told me traffic was pretty treacherous for cyclists in westchester, care to comment on that?


everyone in the group has done bike new york (~40 mi) without trouble, and two of us have done aids rides (up to 100 mi/day and 120 mi/day in alaska and new england, respectively). i'd say 80 mi/day is reasonable, given a 10 mi/h pace. more on flat terrain, less on hills of course.

vtjim

If you need any local info for the Burlington Vermont area, shoot me a PM. I'm not sure how much more info I can give you about your route.

Spear Street into Burlington is certainly nicer than Route 7 by a long shot. I'd say Route 7 is probably dangerous for bicycles in several places. Construction, no shoulder, 4 lanes, aggressive (for Vermont) drivers.

If you're looking for some scenic trail riding, check out the Island Line Trail.
https://www.localmotion.org/islandline/index.htm
It's my commuting route. Unfortunately it won't connect you to the Champlain Islands or I'd insist you include it in your plans. The way it is now, you could ride it into Colchester Vermont (where I live) and then work your way back out to Route 2 along Malletts Bay.

Erick L

Magictofu's suggestion is excellent, but be aware that connections between stretches of bike path can be difficult to figure out. A good street map can be very useful... essential, I'd say.

I use the plain MapArt regional maps since they are avaible at most convenience stores ("dépanneur"). The bike paths are marked with small blue dots. I don't know what the "tourist" maps have more (never seen one).

Magictofu

They're free if you ask for them politely... otherwise it's probably quite similar.

Erick L

Hmm... I'm not sure what you mean by free. I don't think MapArt will give anyone a map for free. MapArt has two different types of maps, plain and recreational.

Or I guess you mean the cycling maps. Those are free but not available everywhere. And as you said, the streets aren't on it. They can be useful too though.

Oh... using the route verte guide is a sure way to get lost.

Magictofu

I was talking the tourist maps offered by the folks at bonjourquebec.com... They gave me a free road map (worth about 4$ according to what's printed on the cover) and half a dozen cycling maps of different regions.

Sorry about the misunderstanding... I probably read this thread too fast.

liaudio

sounds like fun
never been to montreal. How many road miles? In October I rode Seattle to Mexico.

Magictofu

liaudio... from where?

Cyclist0094

Rt 6 is actually in southern Putnam county It is pretty busy but had a good shoulder to Brewster when i last rode it in 2002. A friend of mine lives in Tarrytown and rides in Westchester, He says there is now a rail trail connecting with the Northcounty trail and continuing to Carmel, so now you may not have to ride on US 6 at all or for only a short distance. He suggests from Carmel you ride north a couple of miles on CR 52 and then east on CR 311 till it's jucntion with Rt 22 which avoids the traffic in Brewster. From the Bronx he thinks the best route is the South County Trailway north from Yonkers till the end, then cross under !-87 and get on the North trail to Putnam trail which will avoid all the traffic. https://www.westchestergov.com/parks/...ys/SCTrail.pdf

I did some looking and found Rt 22 starts at US rt 1 and Provost ave in Bronx. I like the idea of starting at the beginning of Rt 22. I have no idea what the riding would be like between there and Whiteplains, I know that between White Plains and Brewster Rt 22 is pretty busy in places. If it were me and I was going to ride straight up rt 22, I would probaly want to start my tour early on a Sunday Morning and take advantage of the lighter traffic.

If you ride 70-80 miles a day your first day will probaly get you to Dover Plains NY. Unless some have closed there was 2 or 3 motels in Doverplains when i passed through there.

Rick

waterguzzler

sorry to have left the thread so abruptly, and also i apologize for not thanking everyone who contributed, especially velonomad. work has been crazy for the past 2 months... can't wait to start the tour (now pushed back to early august)!

going to test out early portions of route 22 in the morning. i'll let you know how i feel about it.

waterguzzler

a buddy and i scouted out route 22 on sunday.

our first mistake was riding through the bronx. from manhattan, we rode alongside the east river and crossed into the bronx over the 3rd ave bridge. then we meandered through the borough, roughly following 3rd ave and boston rd until we got to provost and 233rd. in general, the bronx has bad pavement (yep got a flat), scary traffic, and the neighborhoods are somewhat sketchy. we're definitely taking the 5 train next time.

from provost ave, we crossed into westchester following route 22 (s columbus ave) through some industrial areas in mount vernon. once we got into bronxville the neighborhood became really quiet, tree-lined, and affluent. in tuckahoe and eastchester, route 22 (white plains rd) became a little busier. southern scarsdale was quiet (post rd), but the northern part was much more commercial as we crossed into white plains.

just after entering white plains, we made another mistake of following the bike route sign and veering onto maple ave instead of staying on post rd. this eventually took us to the white plains westchester mall, and we went the wrong direction (southbound) on bloomingdale rd, until we hit bryant. at this point we stopped to buy a map and then attempted to return to route 22.

this is where it totally went fubar (stop reading now if you are trying to use this as a guide to route 22 in lower westchester county). for some reason we turned right instead of left on westchester ave, and then the next left onto s kensico. realizing we had made yet another navigational error, we decided to make the best of it and explore the neighborhood parallel to route 22 and then eventually merge back onto the route. we crossed the freeway on the lake ave overpass and turned north onto n kensico and planned to take reservoir rd back onto route 22. alas, it was not to be. we ended up on orchard st (via beech st) and then up to the reservoir, where we turned right at the t onto old orchard st instead of left onto reservoir rd. it was actually nice here, with trees and stuff, so we went with it. it was a gruelling climb on a hot muggy day, but the road was extraordinarily tranquil, directly opposite of what my cardiopulmonary activity was like. i must've approached heat exhaustion, since i started feeling weak and abnormally chilly and got goose bumps even though it was really hot weather. it was a rare good decision i made that day to stop for a break halfway up and tried to rehydrate as well as cool off a bit.

at the end of old orchard we turned left at quarry heights which took us straight to route 22 (finally). we were pretty beat and wanted to go home at this point, so we took it southbound, went across the dam (dam rd or westlake dr?), left on n kensico, and right on broadway. from there we saw the metro north station and took it back into the city.

it's good to have done this scouting trip, despite all the errors, rather than troubleshooting on the fly on the real tour to montreal. we'll continue scouting the rest of route 22 in westchester (starting from valhalla via metro north), and possibly putnam and dutchess counties in the coming week or so. i'll post our findings.

by the way old orchard rd is scenic, quiet, and a good climb. you ought to try it sometime.

Cyclist0094

I was in Bronxville the same day you guys came through, my son is going to Sarah Lawrence college next year and we were there checking out where our $40K a yeart is going. leaving We took post rd to White plains and then got on 287 it is certainly rideable into Whiteplains.
what I would suggest you do is get a detailed street map or use mapquest to check the area for less traveled streets that paralell your route. Looking at the map I used I would have probaly turned left off of post road onto south Lexington then north through the town to water street left 1 block to Ferris and then right on ferris and follow it till it ends on the opposite side of 287 at cemetery road Then I would go west to Kenisco rd northbound. Though kenisco looks like it may be a busy rd
You didn't go to far out of your way however, no more than a couple miles probaly. The only other area that that may be a hassle is where 22 crosses 684 , you might want to try old 22/ 128 into Armonk to cox street east to bryant lake rd north to baldwin rd then east back to 22 that should get you out of the worst traffic.
keep us posted on your progress!

Rick

waterguzzler

tour de westchester, part deux:

this past beautiful sunday, we took metro north to valhalla, where we ended last time. after an invigorating climb back onto route 22, things were looking pretty good. between valhalla and armonk, the shoulder was a bit narrow and bumpy, but there was ample shade and minimal traffic. a general uphill grade took us to about payne's corner, and the shoulder became nice and wide by then.

and of course every great cycling tale needs a great setback. right before bedford village, while we were enjoying the clear weather and gentle breeze, my partner skillfully maneuvered to avoid two gargantuan yet well-camoflauged potholes. unfortunately, i was following too closely behind and didn't see them until it was too late. the front slammed into the hole with a metallic noise as i came to a sudden stop, and i feared for the wheel's integrity. luckily the wheel itself was undamaged. the tire, however, had a two inch gash in the side, most likely from the rim cutting into the rubber. patch kits and spare tubes would not help here. improvising, my buddy and i tore off the cardboard from the spare tube's box and stuffed it inside the tire at the gash, to keep the tube from bulging out of the hole. we pumped up the front with the new tube and cardboard-reinforced tire and it held. we consulted the map and decided either bedford village or katonah would be the closest places to get a new tire. no bike shop in bedford village. we headed out to katonah, about 5 miles, crossed route 35 and saw a fellow cyclist in front of a (closed) sporting goods store. he gave us directions to katonah's bike shop, so we headed off. and then the inner tube blew out. we walked about a mile into town, where we found the bike shop.

i felt a bit ripped off at the bike shop, paying $22.80 for a kenda koncept lite and $19 for two summitt inner tubes. i mean, in manhattan i can get specialized tubes for $5 each! but i really didn't have a choice. after installing the new tire and pumping it up, we stopped for lunch at the pizza station. mmm they had good pizza, i recommend the ricotta and tomato slice.

back on 22, we found pretty much the same conditions all day: gently rolling hills, quiet roads, and lots of trees. we went another 10 miles, crossing into putnam county, and turned into the brewster train station to return home. we could've gone further, but metro north beyond southeast (station 3 min after brewster) would require transferring at southeast, and infrequent service (every 2 hours on sundays).

we were quite happy with the conditions of the ride in general, with the obvious exception of the upsetting hole in the pavement.

by the way, i'm thinking of replacing the kenda with a durable, puncture-resistant, low rolling resistance tire, and keeping the kenda as a spare. have any recommendations for me?

nicolaim

Hi Velonomad,
my apologies for resurrecting a 10-year-old thread. While researching an upcoming ride from Montreal to New York I came across this thread from 2005. I'm tempted to largely follow your recommended route largely because you seem to know what you're talking about! Do you think your '05 route is still a good choice? Below is what I've got.


Route Verte
Chambly
Route Verte
Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu
Route Verte
Rouses Point
2
129
2
West Shore Rd
2 OR ferry to Burlington
Burlington
Spear St
Irish Hill Rd
Falls Rd
Marsett Rd
Shelburne
Bostwick Rd
Greenbush Rd / 22K
7
Ferrisburg
7
22A
Vergennes
Panton Rd
Adams Ferry Rd
Lake Rd
Lake St
Watch Pt Rd
Shoreham
[instead of going to Orwell an option is to go to Ticonderoga on the 74, then 22, Whitehall, then 4A to Castleton]
74
22A
Orwell
73
Young Rd / 15
Hortonia
Hortonville Rd
Hortonia Rd
30
Castleton
Delaware and Hudson rail trail to Rupert
Rupert
153
Salem
22
Copake Falls
Harlem Valley Rail Trail
63
62
Millerton
62
361
Sharon
41
2
3
Wassaic
22
Patterson
311
52
Carmel
Putnam Trailway
North County Trailway
South County Trailway
Yonkers
NYC!