Help! Can’t remove broken RD bolt from hanger.
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Help! Can’t remove broken RD bolt from hanger.
Hello. I need help removing a sheared rear derailer bolt (the result of shifting gears while climbing). Drilling and extraction bits haven’t done the job. I cannot get through to the other side, either. Can the bolt be removed? And if so, do I run the risk of ruining the hanger in so doing? Thank you and Happy New Year! FYI: This is a steel frame.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,767
Bikes: lots
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1958 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times
in
1,489 Posts
Hello. I need help removing a sheared rear derailer bolt (the result of shifting gears while climbing). Drilling and extraction bits haven’t done the job. I cannot get through to the other side, either. Can the bolt be removed? And if so, do I run the risk of ruining the hanger frame in so doing? Thank you and Happy New Year! FYI: This is a steel frame.
ETA: This didn't happen because you shifted while climbing, something wasn't adjusted correctly. People shift in all sorts of situations. And it looks like your photos are flipped backwards, what's up w/ that?
Last edited by cxwrench; 12-27-21 at 12:55 PM.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,909
Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times
in
282 Posts
Have you tried left hand bits, in the hope they'd back it out?
Penetrating oil first?
With extreme care you might be able to drill out the center of the screw, needle file it to the minor diameter, and maybe pick the remaining helix out of the threads with a dental pick or something.
I made an interesting discovery once that an arbor press worked wonders on munged phillips heads - I could use the press to smoosh a bit into the screw and then a wrench to turn the bit and back screw, even though I was backing it out against the pressing force. Not sure that would apply here, though part of the idea of the press is cold flowing the screw head, so smooshing a phillips into what was once a hex isn't out of the question.
Penetrating oil first?
With extreme care you might be able to drill out the center of the screw, needle file it to the minor diameter, and maybe pick the remaining helix out of the threads with a dental pick or something.
I made an interesting discovery once that an arbor press worked wonders on munged phillips heads - I could use the press to smoosh a bit into the screw and then a wrench to turn the bit and back screw, even though I was backing it out against the pressing force. Not sure that would apply here, though part of the idea of the press is cold flowing the screw head, so smooshing a phillips into what was once a hex isn't out of the question.
Last edited by UniChris; 12-27-21 at 12:57 PM.
Likes For UniChris:
#4
aka: Dr. Cannondale
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,852
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2151 Post(s)
Liked 3,380 Times
in
1,198 Posts
Suggest you use a series of HIGH QUALITY carbide tipped drill bits in successively larger sizes to drill that out.
Then buy a Hanger Saver (basically a nut inserted from the back side) to affix the new RD.
Then buy a Hanger Saver (basically a nut inserted from the back side) to affix the new RD.
__________________
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
Likes For rccardr:
#5
I like cats.
My guess is that the OP is trying to drill and/or EZ out without first stabilizing the right drop-out on a hard surface, which would be understandable as it's an awkward part of the frame to secure..
#6
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,516
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 3,361 Times
in
2,034 Posts
If you're going to keep drilling use the correct tap drill size as you final drill and use a tap to clean out the existing threads.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Drill-Am...1-25/304746993
If you mess up the threads use a drop out saver
https://wheelsmfg.com/presses-tools/dropout-savers.html
Got connections find a machine shop or service with a MDM or EDM machine.
https://brokentap.com/services/
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Drill-Am...1-25/304746993
If you mess up the threads use a drop out saver
https://wheelsmfg.com/presses-tools/dropout-savers.html
Got connections find a machine shop or service with a MDM or EDM machine.
https://brokentap.com/services/
#7
Full Member
Thread Starter
Thanks. I can get good purchase on the frame. But, yes, it is awkward.
#8
Full Member
Thread Starter
You should be able to drill through the bolt pretty easily w/ a good bit, I don't understand why this is a problem. Hammer a Torx bit in there.
ETA: This didn't happen because you shifted while climbing, something wasn't adjusted correctly. People shift in all sorts of situations. And it looks like your photos are flipped backwards, what's up w/ that?
ETA: This didn't happen because you shifted while climbing, something wasn't adjusted correctly. People shift in all sorts of situations. And it looks like your photos are flipped backwards, what's up w/ that?
#9
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,811
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6100 Post(s)
Liked 4,732 Times
in
3,262 Posts
If you aren't experienced, and I assume you aren't since you had to ask, you might just let it be a problem for your LBS mechanic. You do stand a chance of messing up that DR mount and since it's not a replaceable hangar.... well you know.
Likes For Iride01:
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,651
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 835 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times
in
741 Posts
Try penetrating fluid FIRST. Let soak at least 2 days and try extractor bit again. A 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid & acetone is about the best penetrating fluid followed by Kano Kroil Oil or PB Blaster is decent.
#11
Full Member
Thread Starter
Thanks. But I don’t keep any of that stuff about.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,909
Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times
in
282 Posts
The real question is if I'd try to do all of that on the workbench in a way that would position it under the drillpress...
Have to go see if I can manage something similar on a nice sturdy salvaged rear rack to get what were once battery dock connectors off, one of the 4 screws on each side failed. And my arbor press is a 2 hour drive away. I this case I'm thinking what I'm going to do is maybe try to drill the screws from the back in the conventional direction in the hope that they unscrew.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 18,003
Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4172 Post(s)
Liked 3,793 Times
in
2,272 Posts
A length of all thread and some nuts will tie the two dropouts together for real cheap.
Given all the paint gauges about the hanger I suspect there's been some "incidents" before. Andy
Given all the paint gauges about the hanger I suspect there's been some "incidents" before. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Napa Valley, CA
Posts: 908
Bikes: Wife says I have too many :-)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 327 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times
in
158 Posts
You should be able to drill through the bolt pretty easily w/ a good bit, I don't understand why this is a problem. Hammer a Torx bit in there.
ETA: This didn't happen because you shifted while climbing, something wasn't adjusted correctly. People shift in all sorts of situations. And it looks like your photos are flipped backwards, what's up w/ that?
ETA: This didn't happen because you shifted while climbing, something wasn't adjusted correctly. People shift in all sorts of situations. And it looks like your photos are flipped backwards, what's up w/ that?
It should be obvious to the most casual viewer he said "flip side" on the photo. Nothing wrong with the photo. And it can happen while shifting while climbing.
We have had this same repair in our shop before from the same thing.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Napa Valley, CA
Posts: 908
Bikes: Wife says I have too many :-)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 327 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times
in
158 Posts
In our neck of the woods,, in northern CA, we see a lot of crazy mountain bike repairs. There is a lot of trails where they torture test the bikes. The malady in this thread and others happen. Pedals broken off or bent down from the jumps and stomping down. Bent derailleur hangers are common.
#16
Full Member
Thread Starter
In our neck of the woods,, in northern CA, we see a lot of crazy mountain bike repairs. There is a lot of trails where they torture test the bikes. The malady in this thread and others happen. Pedals broken off or bent down from the jumps and stomping down. Bent derailleur hangers are common.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,528
Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0
Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5219 Post(s)
Liked 3,564 Times
in
2,331 Posts
left hand bit
straight fluted extraction tool
a proper tap wrench
been there, done that, on my car (over torqued one of the bolts holding my rear hatch on)
EXCERPT: you need new bits, special harder cobalt bits & several because they dull going into that hardened removal tool. a cpl lefthand bits too. then, when you get a new hole in that Easyout (which is stuck in the bolt), or after you drill it out completely leaving just the original broken bolt (with a nice centered hole) then get a straight, fluted, (not spiral) extraction tool, the correct size & use a proper tap wrench to turn it
it took me weeks. good luck!
in the end you want this in your hand
these are my NAPA straight fluted screw extractors. guess I got them at an auto parts store. part # SER 720
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER720
this is a tap wrench to use w the fluted extractors
https://www.amazon.com/Vermont-Ameri...rds=tap+wrench
the spiral tools & so called Easyouts & similar tools are inferior
a hole the correct size matched with the correct extractor allows the extractor to be inserted a decent depth, not just the tip
was so nice getting the new bolt installed
guess I'm not the only person to break an extraction tool inside a broken bolt
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...ay-remove.html
straight fluted extraction tool
a proper tap wrench
been there, done that, on my car (over torqued one of the bolts holding my rear hatch on)
EXCERPT: you need new bits, special harder cobalt bits & several because they dull going into that hardened removal tool. a cpl lefthand bits too. then, when you get a new hole in that Easyout (which is stuck in the bolt), or after you drill it out completely leaving just the original broken bolt (with a nice centered hole) then get a straight, fluted, (not spiral) extraction tool, the correct size & use a proper tap wrench to turn it
it took me weeks. good luck!
in the end you want this in your hand
these are my NAPA straight fluted screw extractors. guess I got them at an auto parts store. part # SER 720
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER720
this is a tap wrench to use w the fluted extractors
https://www.amazon.com/Vermont-Ameri...rds=tap+wrench
the spiral tools & so called Easyouts & similar tools are inferior
a hole the correct size matched with the correct extractor allows the extractor to be inserted a decent depth, not just the tip
was so nice getting the new bolt installed
guess I'm not the only person to break an extraction tool inside a broken bolt
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...ay-remove.html
Last edited by rumrunn6; 12-30-21 at 12:49 PM.
#18
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,516
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 3,361 Times
in
2,034 Posts
Due to their hardness they fracture fairly easily. Did this plenty on large $$$ weldments when taps got broken off in blind holes.
#19
Full Member
Thread Starter
left hand bit
straight fluted extraction tool
a proper tap wrench
been there, done that, on my car (over torqued one of the bolts holding my rear hatch on)
EXCERPT: you need new bits, special harder cobalt bits & several because they dull going into that hardened removal tool. a cpl lefthand bits too. then, when you get a new hole in that Easyout (which is stuck in the bolt), or after you drill it out completely leaving just the original broken bolt (with a nice centered hole) then get a straight, fluted, (not spiral) extraction tool, the correct size & use a proper tap wrench to turn it
it took me weeks. good luck!
in the end you want this in your hand
these are my NAPA straight fluted screw extractors. guess I got them at an auto parts store. part # SER 720
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER720
this is a tap wrench to use w the fluted extractors
https://www.amazon.com/Vermont-Ameri...rds=tap+wrench
the spiral tools & so called Easyouts & similar tools are inferior
a hole the correct size matched with the correct extractor allows the extractor to be inserted a decent depth, not just the tip
was so nice getting the new bolt installed
guess I'm not the only person to break an extraction tool inside a broken bolt
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...ay-remove.html
straight fluted extraction tool
a proper tap wrench
been there, done that, on my car (over torqued one of the bolts holding my rear hatch on)
EXCERPT: you need new bits, special harder cobalt bits & several because they dull going into that hardened removal tool. a cpl lefthand bits too. then, when you get a new hole in that Easyout (which is stuck in the bolt), or after you drill it out completely leaving just the original broken bolt (with a nice centered hole) then get a straight, fluted, (not spiral) extraction tool, the correct size & use a proper tap wrench to turn it
it took me weeks. good luck!
in the end you want this in your hand
these are my NAPA straight fluted screw extractors. guess I got them at an auto parts store. part # SER 720
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER720
this is a tap wrench to use w the fluted extractors
https://www.amazon.com/Vermont-Ameri...rds=tap+wrench
the spiral tools & so called Easyouts & similar tools are inferior
a hole the correct size matched with the correct extractor allows the extractor to be inserted a decent depth, not just the tip
was so nice getting the new bolt installed
guess I'm not the only person to break an extraction tool inside a broken bolt
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...ay-remove.html
Likes For daveed:
#20
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,811
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6100 Post(s)
Liked 4,732 Times
in
3,262 Posts
for considering donation. However if there isn't any that can use that frame, don't feel bad about sending it to the scrap yard. Some think that's wasteful, but scrap yards aren't the final stop. That's were they get sent off to be melted down and become something new for less of a environmental hit than mining ore and smelting it.