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PSA - Counterfeit Chains Are Rampant

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PSA - Counterfeit Chains Are Rampant

Old 10-28-22, 05:08 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by DougRNS
Different lengths? 116L vs 126L

Lots of chain talk. Strange.
I am told length does not matter.
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Old 10-28-22, 05:36 PM
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datlas How did you determine the fake give-away— the enclosed quick link— was definitely not Shimano?

All of the packaging comparison stuff is not compelling; it’s not at all unusual for packaging to change over the years, or even based on place of manufacture. For example, right now, brand new Coca-Cola cans look different in Hawaii than the do in Michigan; not the branding or labeling, but the physical can, because the markets are supplied from different manufacturing plants.

But the quick link…how do you know it’s fake?
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Old 10-28-22, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
datlas How did you determine the fake give-away— the enclosed quick link— was definitely not Shimano?

All of the packaging comparison stuff is not compelling; it’s not at all unusual for packaging to change over the years, or even based on place of manufacture. For example, right now, brand new Coca-Cola cans look different in Hawaii than the do in Michigan; not the branding or labeling, but the physical can, because the markets are supplied from different manufacturing plants.

But the quick link…how do you know it’s fake?
Main tip-off was quick link looked funny. And it did not “snap” like the original one. See pic below of fake chain installed with quick link. It’s CLEARLY not Shimano.


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Old 10-28-22, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by phrantic09
For what it’s worth, I got mine from Amazon with Amazon as the seller. The chain looked legit, but the link plates broke when I was climbing. The QL is what gave it away to my mechanic that the chain was fake. His words were - if that’s the QL that came with the chain, the chain is fake
Same. Side plates pull out.
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Old 10-28-22, 07:31 PM
  #30  
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Can you weigh them? That's a good way to find fakes amongst otherwise identical looking batteries.
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Old 10-28-22, 08:37 PM
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Fwiw, those aren’t trapezoids. They are parallelograms.
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Old 10-28-22, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas
Pics, as promised. Real chain is on the right, fake one on the left:




The chains themselves really do look identical to me.
Looking at them side-by-side, I can see the difference in the chains. But the lack of the arrow on the QL is more compelling. Unfortunately, I'm usually paying so little attention, and my close vision is so poor, that I would likely not notice until the chain broke while I was riding.
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Old 10-28-22, 09:52 PM
  #33  
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Does the fake chain have lettering on one side (which is supposed to be the outward-facing direction)?
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Old 10-29-22, 12:59 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
Does the fake chain have lettering on one side (which is supposed to be the outward-facing direction)?
Yeah, I’d expect all Shimano stuff to be branded, quick link included. Of course, counterfeit stuff could be as well, but unbranded would be quite a tell, I think.
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Old 10-29-22, 01:23 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by datlas
Main tip-off was quick link looked funny. And it did not “snap” like the original one. See pic below of fake chain installed with quick link. It’s CLEARLY not Shimano.


The picture isn’t clear enough to make out the inscriptions on the quick link, and of course we cant see the other side, but it doesn’t appear to say Shimano, not does the QL, so if that’s the case, I get what what you’re saying.

At the same time, though, we’ve had 10 years of 11 speed, right, so I think it’s both reasonable and likely changes were made by Shimano to both product and packaging over that period, so that the chains are not identical is not necessarily revealing or damning.

It is also reasonable to assume there are counterfeits out there, and it’s reasonable to assume non-authorized vendors in grey and black market channels like eBay and Amazon would be the places to find those fakes.

Being up on the minutiae of Shimano chain variants over the years is super-deep geeky stuff, and while I won’t be surprised if that person is out there, I don’t know if we’ll get those definitive answers in this thread, so I think the big takeaway here is to stick to ADs (authorized dealers) and official channels when buying chains. EBay could be fine, but you’ve got to know your vendor; legit shops sell on eBay, but so counterfeiters.
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Old 10-29-22, 01:32 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr
Same. Side plates pull out.
Would not the quick link literally be “the weakest link?” Would it be surprising that if a chain breaks, it would be at the at QL?

I don’t generally expect chains to break at all, especially 11 speed chains, so there’s that, but it’s not clear the brand, age, model, mileage, or conditions either you or phrantic09 are talking about, so it may be unsurprising those chains broke.
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Old 10-29-22, 02:13 AM
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You guys breaking chains... are you waxing them properly?
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Old 10-29-22, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
Would not the quick link literally be “the weakest link?” Would it be surprising that if a chain breaks, it would be at the at QL?

I don’t generally expect chains to break at all, especially 11 speed chains, so there’s that, but it’s not clear the brand, age, model, mileage, or conditions either you or phrantic09 are talking about, so it may be unsurprising those chains broke.
The chain I am referring to broke after about 25 miles of use on dry roads. Then it broke again the next day in a different spot. It was him the same chain datlas has in his pics.

I wax with a 2 chain rotation, so I just put the first chain back on the bike and never had another issue. That chain had about 250 miles in same dry conditions.
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Old 10-29-22, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
Would not the quick link literally be “the weakest link?” Would it be surprising that if a chain breaks, it would be at the at QL?

I don’t generally expect chains to break at all, especially 11 speed chains, so there’s that, but it’s not clear the brand, age, model, mileage, or conditions either you or phrantic09 are talking about, so it may be unsurprising those chains broke.
We're talking about fake chains that are poorly made or rejects or whatever.
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Old 10-29-22, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr
We're talking about fake chains that are poorly made or rejects or whatever.
I know what you think we’re talking about, of course, but that’s not an answer to my questions, because regardless of whether a chain is authentic Shimano or not, the possibility of failure exists, and is not something which only happens to counterfeits.
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Old 10-29-22, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by phrantic09
The chain I am referring to broke after about 25 miles of use on dry roads. Then it broke again the next day in a different spot. It was him the same chain datlas has in his pics.

I wax with a 2 chain rotation, so I just put the first chain back on the bike and never had another issue. That chain had about 250 miles in same dry conditions.
Whoa, the chain broke twice?!

What was the failure mode, exactly? You said it “broke at the link plates,” but I’m not sure if you mean the connector (aka quick) link, or a regular link, or whether you mean broke as in ruined and unusable or broke as in came apart and was able to be reassembled. I guess that you said it broke in a different place suggests a different link, but it’s not clear if you’re saying the link you broke to reconnect the chain failed the second time, or if it ever failed at the connector link.
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Old 10-29-22, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
i know what you think we’re talking about, of course, but that’s not an answer to my questions, because regardless of whether a chain is authentic shimano or not, the possibility of failure exists, and is not something which only happens to counterfeits.
ok.
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Old 10-29-22, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
How can one tell?
The same way two can tell.
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Old 10-29-22, 06:03 AM
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I'd be inclined to email the pics to a Shimano USA rep and see what they have to say. Shimano would likely be interested in knowing if there are fakes out there.
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Old 10-29-22, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by datlas
Pics, as promised. Real chain is on the right, fake one on the left:


Front of box. Real on right,

Back of boxes. Some sites have said the giveaway is lack of bar-code on fake but in this case both have it. Real on right again.



Box contents. Real on right again.

The chains themselves really do look identical to me.
In your pics at least, the right one's (real) pins have an obviously different color/shading (darker) than the chain on the left. Is this just a trick of the light in both photos?
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Old 10-29-22, 09:43 AM
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Some of those links on the left-hand package very clearly say "SK" on them. Wasn't there a company called Sakai or something like that which made copies of stuff like Cinelli handlebars and branded them "SK" many years ago?
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Old 10-29-22, 09:56 AM
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For entertainment go to Amazon and type in Shimano derailleur. Check the names before "Shimano" and the prices.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=shimano+derailleur
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Old 10-29-22, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
Does the fake chain have lettering on one side (which is supposed to be the outward-facing direction)?
The fake chain recently posted on MTBR was fully lettered. The stamping was deeper and cruder than the authentic but it said all the same things. I posted pics I copied from there a little while ago so I won't again but here is the link (pun intended)

One week old chain doesn't look like one month old chain? | Mountain Bike Reviews Forum (mtbr.com)
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Old 10-29-22, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by datlas
...from reputable and well established USA-based sellers on EBay
No one on any of these counterfeit threads will ever out the seller and always takes an "I should have known" attitude. Why?
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Old 10-29-22, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
No one on any of these counterfeit threads will ever out the seller and always takes an "I should have known" attitude. Why?
Good question.
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