mtnbud

Sorry ahead of time for possibly posting something that has already been discussed. I have a friend who is 82 and just bought a Wahoo Kickr Snap because it was recommended to him by an employee at his favorite bike shop. They also recommended he purchase a subscription to the Swift app for $15 per month.

He asked me to help him set up his bike and the app. He hasn't bought the app yet. I was reading the trainer will work with other apps. It seems silly for him to pay $15 per month for an app. Is there a good app out there he could use instead that doesn't have a monthly fee? Is the $15 per month worth it?

Thanks for your opinions!

PeteHski

Zwift is the most popular app to use with a smart trainer, but there are plenty of alternatives e.g. Rouvy, Wahoo X, BKool, Fulgaz, etc, etc.
Pretty much all the really good apps are subscription based, but some are a little cheaper than Zwift.

I'm not going to go into the feature details. It's easier just to Google my suggestions above and check them out.

Kai Winters

Depends on what he wants to do/ride.
I suggest he use the "free 2 week trial" feature of the apps Pete lists then choose the app he prefers.

rm -rf

I have a Wahoo Kickr. From the choices, I've only tried Zwift, the free Wahoo app, and a brief test of my Garmin's training session features.

Wahoo app:
I just used it to see power and cadence numbers while riding, and to set the resistance. I can choose between a similated grade percentage, or a watts number, or a 1 to 10 difficulty rating.
This works fine for controlling the trainer. I need to watch some youtube videos or otherwise have something to keep from getting bored while riding.
I think the app can follow training session imports -- varying resistance during the ride as planned

Garmin device:
I tried my Garmin's training methods. It can also control the trainer resistance, and can follow a training plan. It can also recreate a recorded outdoor ride's resistance, but this didn't work very well in my brief test -- I vary my effort all the time outside, so it's resistance wasn't steady enough.

Zwift paid app:
Zwift is paid monthly, so it's simple to keep going for a month or two after the free two weeks expires, and cancel anytime if it doesn't seem worthwhile.

This has been working for me. It keeps my interest and I think it's worth the subscription cost for that reason alone. I often found reasons to skip an indoor training ride before Zwift.
Riding on Zwift has way less coasting than riding outdoors. I ride 2 to 5 hours outdoors, 30 to 90 minutes on Zwift. Short and effective.

How I use Zwift:

Robot paced "group" rides: I can jump into a ride that's paced by a bot and pick a pace that's easy or challenging. The robot rider sets the steady effort for the group. These are available instantly whenever I want to go.

Riding with my human outdoor riders! We've done our own group rides on Zwift, and it's easy to set up: Pick a starting time, and a distance or elapsed time number -- we often do 60 minutes. Send an invite to the other riders. We set the group to be "no-drop" so the strong riders get a good workout and the slower riders stay in the group with a rubber band effect. We have a side group voice chat on the phone app Discord too.

Solo free riding: Pick a location in the Zwift maps, go at my own pace. I do like the game scenery and ride simulations. There's PRs for hills and sprint points if that's a motivation to ride harder there.

Training sessions: I can do training at an appropriate level for me -- the bike won't fall over at very slow speeds! I'm out riding in the simulated environment, but at a set wattage, and the trainer adapts to my gearing and cadence to keep me in that range of effort. I like it more than I expected.

There's also racing, and accumulating points toward goals. Zwift has weeks long training plans too. I don't do these.

rm -rf

Kickr Snap vs Kickr Core vs Zwift Hub

The Snap uses the bike tire on a roller to run the trainer. That works, but it's not nearly as nice as a smart trainer that uses a built-in cassette.
The tire-roller trainers are louder, and imperfections in the tire make it vibrate more, which can potentially annoy people in nearby rooms. The tire can slip with hard efforts. Tires can get worn out or damaged if it's not set correctly.

Smart trainers have a built-in cassette. Remove the rear wheel, mount the bike on the trainer. These are quieter and never have tire problems, of course.

These cassette trainers have been way more expensive than a tire trainer, but Zwift's Hub at $500 has lowered the cost of lower end cassette trainers. Kickr Core is often discounted to that same range of cost.
The Zwift Hub can work without Zwift, it appears, it's not locked into Zwift. It's quite new, so there's not a lot of longer term reviews, but the few multi-month reviews report that it works well.

spelger

there are lots of apps that have free trials. he could even use RGT which allows limited free use. i'd suggest he try them all first. that would give him about 3-4 months free. since he'd be trying so many i suggest writing down what he likes/dislikes about each. after so many i forgot about some of the quirks.

mtnbud

Thanks for all the advice. Since he's 82, he really doesn't need all the features. Using the 2 week trial so he can decide is a good idea. He's not adverse to spending money, but his wife is a bit.

I tried to talk him into a simple roller with no apps or electronics, but he thought he needed to buy this one based on recommendations from the bike shop he goes to. After watching the Zwift app in person I do see how this is way more motivating than a simple inexpensive trainer with no app.

rm -rf

Since you will help set up Zwift, it's a bit complicated:
My desktop PC has good Bluetooth with it's external antenna that plugs into antenna sockets on the back. Before I dug out the Bluetooth antenna, it just didn't work reliably at all.
Bluetooth on Zwift is reliable and fast to connect once it's set up. If you have trouble with bluetooth connections, the alternative is to use the phone companion app to control the Wahoo. That worked for me, but requires the phone to be running the app, and can be a bit annoying.

The companion app is useful within the game. It can use up a lot of phone battery in an hour, so I usually plug the phone into power. The companion app can help control the game, like picking intersection choices or doing a U-turn, or stopping the game when you are done. These functions also work with a PC keyboard.

Zwift is a bit confusing at first. There's the PC/Apple/TV software that runs the game and the display. There's the companion app that is an alternate control and info display. And there's also the web page login! Which is mainly for showing activity history and also has some tutorials, etc.

Settings
In the game, after logging in, it goes to a page of events, groups, routes, etc.
In the top right, there's an icon for your login profile and settings.
In the settings:
I turned off Title Music, which was distracting when I'm scrolling around to pick a ride to do.
Trainer Difficulty: This adjusts the pedaling effort to simulate normal to very low gearing. Setting the slider to around 25-35% in the range of "off" to "max" makes it easier to spin on grades instead of getting bogged down.

The first rides in Zwift:
on the game page, scroll down to "Just ride" and pick a Free Ride route that doesn't have much elevation gain. It drops you into the route and you can just ride as fast or slow as you want.

Slow cadence "Spiral of Death"
In some situations, the game tries to adapt resistance as the rider pedals faster or slower. (Actually, this is trainer related -- even just using the Kickr control app, not in Zwift, it can happen.) As I slow my cadence to maybe 30 or 40 rpm, the resistance rises, so I slow even more, but it reaches a point where I can't even turn the crank.
The easy fix is to stop pedaling for a couple of seconds. It'll reset to a low resistance, and I can start pedaling again.

~~~
After a few sessions, try some new stuff:
Views: The PC keyboard number pad has 10 different viewpoints. "1" is the standard view. "6" shows a rear view. When free riding, I like "7", which watches my rider approach, pass, and move ahead.

Pacer groups: "24/7 Group Rides"
These have robot pacers, a translucent rider that keeps the same effort, riding a loop route continuously. Look for the easiest ones, rated "1.0 W/kg". You get added to the ride wherever it's currently at, and get 10 seconds to get up to speed, then you have to keep pace or you lose contact with the group. (It's faster to ride "in the draft" than solo.) If it's too fast, you can just ride solo, no problem.

Jjbailey930

Good for you friend and good for you for helping. FWiW, I’ve had a Snap bought used over 3 years ago. I really like it. I have used road tires and trainer tires. Not too noisy unless the tires tread is thin. Good tire pressure and setup then follow up with calibration per Wahoo app. Ride to 22.4 mph and spin down.

Agree to try all apps for the trial period. I’ve been on and off Zwift - on for winter, indoor cycling and off for summer time. I use a laptop for the app on a desk in front of my bike. Good luck and happy cycling for him.

Barry2 

A lot of the paid apps out there attempt to break the indoor monotony for regular (frequent) indoor riders.
These offer fancy graphics, maps, and other riders (both human &/or Bot) to ride along with.

The other common apps, center around scheduled training plans.

You may find that the free Wahoo app is all that your friend requires, at least for a short while.
This app will control the Snap and track the ride. Optionally it can upload the ride to other apps (Strava for example).

Barry

nicocyclo

I’m using Rouvy for about a week and I am never going back to Zwift with their juddery cartoon graphics. I've Tried Zwift, Fulgaz and Rouvy. The first one is a full social videogame, you have the solitary experience on Fulgaz, and then Rouvy. The perfect mix in my opinion, nice competitions and meetups, but very realistic videos too. There is no way I will go back on Fulgaz when I need a little interaction with other riders to keep myself motivated. Rouvy AR alone wins it over. To actually see virtual riders in races, group rides and the fact you have the ability to add virtual partners for any AR route to ride against wins it over. I used to use Fulgaz but Rouvy is far far better.

PeteHski

Rouvy is good (great variety of quality video routes) and the AR is a great feature (essential for group rides/races), but badly executed IMO with poor graphics and animation. Not a big deal overall, but still a disappointment. BKool also has AR video on some routes, but looks far better. I keep coming back to Zwift for the group rides and races and I actually quite like the graphics on a fast machine that can run smoothly at the highest resolution. For most of last year I was using both Rouvy and Zwift together, but now I'm back to Zwift only.

fcriscuo

I purchased a Wahoo Kickr Core three years ago and signed up for Zwift and Fulgaz subscriptions. Although I enjoyed the incredible range of rides provided by Fulgaz, I experienced a couple of technical issues that caused me not to renew that subscription. In particular, on some rides the resistance was not in sync with the video so I would be flying up steep grades and crawling down descents. Late last year, I decided to give BKool a try and I was so impressed with it that I cancelled my Zwift subscription. Most of these platforms provide a free trial period, usually without providing a credit card number. One Zwift feature that I found motivating was their periodic multi-ride challenges (e.g. Tour du Zwift) where you rode with thousands of other riders from around the world. Hope this helps.

kcjc

MyWhoosh is free and similar to Zwift, look and feel, but with not as many routes. It's less gamified and no overt sexualization. I been using Rouvy recently and prefer the real life scenery. It's same price as Zwift.

spelger

been quite a while since i've used zwift. what's been happening over there?

kcjc

? Been gone for almost 2 years but last I check the mini skirt is still abundant in the rain and snow.

Jjbailey930

Interesting. Been on Zwift 2+ years. I have not idea what you are talking about. Maybe since I am using a 13 inch laptop my screen is too small to see the fans??