inspectorgadet

Hi Everyone, first time poster. I currently have a Kilo TT that ive been using since 2014 as my daily driver. I recently inherited a 1980s Peugot that has been converted to a single speed and before that I grabbed my mother in laws old Raleigh Grand Prix from her basement with plans to convert that to a single speed as well. Im about to make some upgrades and want to swap some parts around , in particular wheels but i dont think its going to be as easy as i hoped. I need some help.


Current status of each bike:
1. Kilo TT - has a carbon fork, stock wheels, new stem and headset, bullhorn handlebars, a front brake and brooks saddle, and 18t Freewheel and some platform eggbeater pedals from my mtb bike. everything else is stock.

2. Peugot - converted to single speed. upgraded wheels (not sure what they are but they're not stock), an upgraded saddle. gatorskin tires and some upgraded brake pads. Everything else is stock. has a quil stem and drop handlebars.

3. Raleigh Grand Prix - i stripped this bike down so its currently the frame, form and quil stem. I was able to grind down the bottom bracket cage? (the metal body of the frame that houses the bb) so i could squeeze a less wide but universal press fit BB with a square drive.


At first i was going to move the peugot wheels over to my kilo but quickly realized that wasnt going to work. The Puegot has a spacer and the wheel is wider so it wont fit in my kilo tt frame and the kilo tt rear wheel has no spacer, a single cog and is much more narrow.

I wanted to upgrade the Kilo TT wheelset since I ride that frequently. My next thought was to get a set of Vuelta Corsa wheels from Nashbar for the kilo and move the kilo wheels to the raleigh but same issue again with the rear wheels not being interchangeable. I did see a set of Vuelta Track Wheels that I could use on my Kilo TT but that wouldnt allow me to use the old ones on the Raleigh so maybe thats not the best call.

Another thought i had was to move my carbon fork and stem set over to the Peugot and move the quil stem and drops to to Kilo TT but not sure if that makes sense either.

My objective is to have all 3 bikes to ride. I would like to make upgrades to one of them that will allow me to finish the raleigh with less new parts but not sure if that's feasible with the wheel situation.


Any thoughts to my predicament?


Thanks

Broctoon

I suggest you spend some time reading Sheldon Brown's tech articles. (Just google the name; he has dozens/perhaps hundreds of pages that are linked from the Harris Cyclery website and vice-versa). Focus on his explanations of wheel sizing and frame spacing. Read up on chain line, too.

You might have different diameter rims among the three bikes. This doesn't necessarily make them incompatible, but it's an important consideration. Hubs can be respaced pretty easily if you're going from a narrow hub to a wider frame. Regardless of whether a hub is too narrow or too wide for a given frame, it might still work, as long as they're close.

Moving a fork from one frame to another is sometimes very straightforward, and other times not possible. Usually it's not worth the trouble, unless you have a good reason for the change. Chances are, your Peugeot and your Raleigh both came with 1" threaded steering columns. I think the Kilo TT is 1" threadless = not an impossible swap, but will involve replacing the headset.

If you have a specific question about one particular change that poses minor technical challenges, I believe someone here will be able to help you. But your "predicament" seems both more broad and more vague than that. Therefore, I repeat my advice to spend time studying the vast treasury of info already published online. Aside from that, here's what I'd say:

1. Pick your favorite bike and put good wheels on it. If it already has some, you're set. If not, save up enough dough for some nice ones. What happens to the other bikes should not play into this decision. Those Vueltas are not bad, but not great. (I've never ridden on them, but I examined some in person. They were just meh.) Velomine and Retrogression both have some really nice wheelsets for $300 or less.

2. If step 1 above frees up some wheels that you can use on another bike, do so (might require respacing). But if you now have wheels that are no use to you, donate them to a bike collective, sell them on Craigslist, throw them away, or give them to a neighbor kid to play with.

3. Pick your next favorite bike and repeat step 1. If you don't have enough money, put the project on hold for a while and accept that you're not meant to have that many bikes at this point.

4. Continue this process until you have three or more bikes with good wheels.

I know what you're going through, because I have five bikes and at least seven or eight wheelsets. I've shuffled them around a lot, and done some respacing to make them work. I learned a lot through this process. Not criticizing you for asking advice, but I think you'll learn far less here than by reading Sheldon's articles, and less from that than by taking out some wrenches and experimenting.

TimothyH

I hope others will give an opinion and I'd like to see a photo but I'm afraid that grinding the bottom bracket shell might have ruined the frame.

Maybe you could provide the year of the bike and what bottom bracket you plan on using? Again, a photo would be good.


-Tim-

Scrodzilla

desconhecido 

I'm no expert on the old Raleigh Grand Prix bikes, but the examples that I have examined were all standard English 68mm bottom brackets with 24 tpi threading whether cottered or not. But, doesn't mean that this one isn't a Nottingham BB.

As for forks, the three are all different. The Peugeot may be "metric" (25 mm with 1mm thread). Maybe later Peugeots would be 25.4 and 24tpi. The fixed gear is, as mentioned, probably threadless and the Grand Prix is almost certainly 26tpi threads. Forks can probably be moved around if the headsets are moved as well.

Broctoon

Ditto Scrod's Meme/MPEG above.


When the OP says he used a press fit BB, surely he doesn't mean something like the PF30. I think he put in one of those universal repair BB's, with the cups threaded on the inside. Too bad he didn't take the frame to a shop to have the shell faced and chased, buy a new BB of the correct size, and voila! have a nice, serviceable setup.


So cringe-worthy!

inspectorgadet

Some more info. I did do quite bit of research reading endless hours on Sheldon's website when i first got my Kilo TT and then again when i was breaking down the Raleigh. That continues to be my priamry source of information. the problem im having is that there is so much info that i get turned around and upside down especially when considering the differences for each of the bikes. I was hoping somewhere here could help point me in the right direction, in particular about the wheels. i will look into more info based on your comments about being able to adapt a more narrow hub to the raleigh. Can you link me to the wheels you recommended?

As far as the bottom bracket on the raleigh goes, i researched the hell out of it at the time but dont remember everything i found out. I think the bike is a 78 raleigh grand prix and had a wider than 68mm shell. i believe it was 76mm and had cottered cranks. I read Sheldon's articles and the upgrade options were more expensive (velo orange or phil wood BB) than i wanted to spend. I also dont have a good LBS in my area that will retap and reface a BB for me. I ended up getting a universal sunlite Threadless BB repair unit from Amazon and grinding down the shell with an angle grinder. Its not perfect but i think it will work. I cant post links yet so i cant share a link of the item i purchased.

Scrodzilla

Do you live on Juipter? Facing and chasing a BB shell is an extremely common procedure here on Earth.

inspectorgadet

cape cod, the two local LBS stores closest to me, either didnt know how or were not interested in doing it.

Broctoon

Check here:


Wheel sets at Velomine



and here:


Wheel sets at Retrogression



Pretty much anything you select from one of those places should be good. For a specific recommendation, I think you can't go wrong with the H+Son TB-14. They look super nice and get great reviews. I have no personal experience with them, however. A box section rim like that will look just right on either of your older frames. If you're shopping for wheels to put on your Mercier, you could go with TB-14s or with a more modern looking rim (something with a taller and more aero profile, like the H+Son Archetype, Velocity A23 or Deep-V, or even the Miche Pistard). The Archetypes are currently all the rage, but anything from Velocity will be good, too. Likewise, Mavic's Open Sport, Open Pro and others are really decent rims. I have Open Pros on my road bike and I'm very happy with them.


Most/all of those hubs will be 100mm spacing (Over-Locknut Dimension) on the front and 120 rear, but those sellers should be willing to respace them for you, maybe for a minimal charge. Your bikes should all use 100mm front hub, so nothing to worry about there. The rear might be 120, 126, or even 130 perhaps. I suspect your Peugeot and Raleigh are probably 126mm. Keep in mind these are just nominal dimensions; the actual measurements can differ. So, for example, if you measure your frame at 124mm, you could easily fit a standard 120mm track hub--the frame would only have to squeeze down 4mm, or 2mm on each side. (That's how I like to think of it, although it's all one dimension; it doesn't split the total between left and right sides as you tighten the nuts.)


You probably have 700c wheels on your Mercier, and the other bikes are probably 27". For replacing any of them with new wheels, I'd recommend 700c. The vast majority of new wheel sets will be this size, and likewise the majority of good tires available today. 700c wheels (actually 622 in ETRTO sizing) will fit in a frame built for 27". They're just a little smaller. This is good news if you ever want to add fenders or fatter tires. One minor drawback is that your original brake calipers might not reach the rim. Some of them might have enough adjustment range to work, but it's likely you'll have to get new "long reach" calipers. Usually when going from 27" to 700c wheels, you'll need calipers with about 55 or 60mm reach. Don't guess, though. Assemble it and measure the reach, then shop for calipers (long reach calipers are not expensive or hard to find).

Scrodzilla

Originally from Massachusetts myself, I can confirm that Cape Cod is often comparable to another planet.

inspectorgadet

IAmSam

What bottom bracket is this? Looks like you needed to chamfer your shell - not grind it down shorter
Now it may be unusable for any other normal BB...

inspectorgadet

This is the bb I installed .

Sunlite Threadless Repair Bottom Bracket, 68 x 122.5mm .On Amazon . Being told I can't post url until I have 10 posts

Scrodzilla

Yikes.

inspectorgadet

No good?

inspectorgadet

Well Im back at this.

I ended up getting a set of Mavic Open Pro - Black Track Wheel 32 Spoke Formula Hub Wheelset (74088) for my DD (the Mercier) I'm very happy with the wheels. I took stock 700c wheels from My Kilo TT and moved them over the Raleigh.

I also got a few other items to move the rebuild on the raleigh along. It's getting closer to Spring here in MA and i'd like to start working on getting the Raleigh up and running soon.

So in addition to the wheels, I got a crank, freewheel and chain to finish the drive train on the Raleigh, The drive line isnt perfect but i think it will work fine.

Here's what I purchased (from velomine) and have since installed:

1 x FSA Track Bike Fixed Gear Crankset F Gimondi 170mm 44t (400310058003) =

$29.00

1 x Shimano SF-1200 18t Single Speed Freewheel 1/8" (0022255326513) =

$25.00

1 x SRAM PC-1 1/2" x 1/8" Chain Silver Track Chain 114 Links (0710845504761)

= $12.00

I need to put handlebars and brakes on and I should be able to go for a test drive. I need help with the handlebar/stem decision.

When I broke the Raleigh down, i cut the handlbars off. I couldn't snake them through the stem clamp and didnt want bend/pry the stem open and damage that so i decided to cut the bars off.

I was planning on reusing the existing stem. I'll repack the crown bearings ( I saved them all) and get new handlebars (25.4mm?). Any trick to getting new drop bars or bullhorns mounted? just snake them through?

For my brake, i was going to run front brake only, reuse the existing hardware with new cables and pads.


Any thoughts/recommendations?

TIA

inspectorgadet

working through this

inspectorgadet

need 10 posts to share links

inspectorgadet

i think this is 10

ThermionicScott 

Cutting/grinding stuff you don't know how to work with sounds like a solid plan. Subscribed.

inspectorgadet

Been riding this Raleigh on/off since this post in this configuration and works fine. I do need to tighten the bottom bracket every once in a while but good for multiple 20 mile rides with no issues. Prob logged a few hundred miles on the bike like this.

himespau 

Well, I guess that's nice.

veganbikes

One should never have to tighten their bottom bracket often and it sounds like you are doing it often inspectorgadet Obviously you cannot go back in time and undo the permanent damage done to the bike but yeah for any future readers of this thread DON'T DO IT EVER! If you have trouble fitting a part go to your local bike shop and have them take a look or quintuple check that the part is the correct part and measure everything 20 times with good quality measuring tools (and maybe have someone else measure with different good quality measuring tools) and still probably bring it to your local shop or if a frame issue bring it to your local frame builder or reach out to a frame builder or ask in the framebuidlers sub-forum here. Don't just start cutting and grinding it cannot be undone and will permanently ruin a frame and cause issues.

GeezyRider 

I've been down the vintage Raleigh 71mm 23 tpi bottom bracket shell road myself. I tried the 68mm Sunlite threadless universal bottom bracket but that 3mm made a big difference. I didn't feel that the non-drive side of the bottom bracket grabbed enough threads to be secure. Perhaps this is why yours keeps coming loose. I ended up polishing the minor pitting out of the original cups and found a square taper spindle that gave me a good chainline. It's been performing beautifully.