work4bike

I'm not some guy that just signed on here to b**ch about a cyclists. Do you really think someone that's been on here for over a decade is here just to bad-mouth cyclists


Look at my history of posts and you'll see I've been cycling for over 30-years and I've even explain how I got started in cycling and I've had numerous posts on various aspects of riding.

You'll even see I've done several loaded touring trips...I'm not trolling

Paul Barnard

He doesn't care. He is here to be adversarial and to pick fights. Look at his post history.

rydabent

A safety tip here. If your route take you thru and intersection to the diagonal corner, go thru the intersection in a clock wise route. That lets you face the on coming traffic, and eliminates drivers turning right on red behind you.

Leisesturm

Please do look at my post history. I'll bet you haven't. You see a couple of posts you don't agree with and you're off to the races ...

Leisesturm

Then why this thread?

Leisesturm

Isn't that what I said? Why for you throw me under the bus of being needlessly argumentative? Contradict yourself much?

jon c. 

They're adding more where I live. One near me was turned into a 4 way a few years back after a fatal crash.

fooferdoggie 

yes we have that here in Oregon. I only go through if there are no cars or bikes in the intersection. I still slow down before going through.

Notso_fastLane

Most states I've lived in, turning right on a red is legal, after stopping.

work4bike

Just one of my pet peeves, people acting entitled. Too many cyclists act entitled on their bikes. I see it all the time at stop signs where cyclists just roll thru stop signs and people have to stop for them.

The only reason I posted it this time is because this guy totally blew thru the intersection. I agree that most cyclists don't blow thru the stop signs, but it doesn't make it any less wrong than cyclists that roll thru, forcing others that had the Right-of-Way to stop. Although it definitely is more dangerous, which is why you don't see more doing it.

I've been thinking about this near-collision I had with this cyclists, since reading some of the comments, and I'm guessing that maybe he saw me, since I was in a white pick-up that he probably got a glimpse of over the bushes, whereas I had no chance of seeing him. I'm thinking he saw me and thought he had time to beat me across the intersection, but he simply miscalculated, probably his speed was a major factor in this miscalculation.

I know a lot of cyclists point to how motorists break laws and they seem to focus more on that, but I'd rather focus on our community correcting our problems, which would put us on much firmer ground to stand on when we do complain about motorists. I'm not bashing cyclists, rather I care more about the cycling community, since we are a minority that takes a lot of abuse.

Eric F 

The single biggest issue I see - from both cyclists and drivers - is ignorance. A LOT of cyclists don't know that they are required to follow the rules of the road, (mostly) the same as a car. A LOT of drivers don't know that cyclists have (mostly) the same rights to the road as a car.

ridelikeaturtle

Too many motorists act entitled in their cars. None of them have ever been killed by a cyclist. (To argue otherwise is completely disingenuous.)

Lots of cyclists are killed or maimed by motorists.

Motorists kill and maim other road users. Cyclists do not. This false equivalence needs to be addressed whenever mentioning "blowing a stop sign".

Korina

Nope. Last year my town converted several two-way stops to all-way stops, and the area is much safer. Two-way stops at the intersection of two high-traffic streets is not safe for pedestrians. Walking up I St., crossing 11th was scary; it's our main arterial, therefore wide and straight, encouraging speeding. The all-way stop encourages drivers to slow down as they approach the center of town, and makes it safe for people on foot and on bikes.

Leisesturm

I understand the general crankiness due to the ongoing lockdowns across the land. I do not understand taking out our frustrations on one another. If you are a road cyclist then other road cyclists are our brother and sisters in arms. Do not utter slander (or is it libel) against them. Has there ever been a cyclist who was careless or foolish on a particular day and time at a particular intersection or crossing? Of course. Could ANY cyclist make a habit of being this way? Of course NOT. S/he would QUICKLY be cut down en flagrante and that would be that. The widespread scofflaw behavior some of you see is all in your minds. Clarification: the behavior may be real. The practitioner is not as 'clueless' as you suppose.

NYC, Philadelphia, PA, Chicago, IL; Portland, OR; Seattle, WA; these. and a FEW other places in the U.S. are places where the average driver might see one or two cyclists per WEEK running a red light. At all. To see a cyclist running a red light such that a driver had to take emergency action to avoid hitting them. In those places it might happen one or two times per YEAR. Anywhere else in the U.S. and you simply don't have enough cyclists regularly riding in the street for scofflaw cycling to be an issue. This forum wouldn't be the place to reach them anyway. Y'all's preachin' to the choir up in here. You know it's bad when 20 something year old WOMEN blast past you through a standing red. Happens to me now and then, in Portland. When it does, I don't get mad at them. I cuss and fume at MYSELF for blowing an opportunity. It is a sure sign that I'm slipping. I feel better when I've put a couple of toasted stop signs behind on my own initiative. Try it. You'll feel much better.

P.S.next time you're pulling away from that fresh Green and a cyclist sails past in front of you ... DON'T panic. Don't even take your foot off the gas! It's all good. God's got you (and them) fully covered. I know it's hard but trust me on this. Only in action movies do people launch themselves into active intersections without scanning and survive. If it simply was their time and ... ... well, you can console yourself with this: the law can't lay a finger on you or make any claim against your insurance. Yes, you have entered a very small club (even smaller than the one you are in as a road cyclist) but at least when you come back here to tell us about it, it won't be speculation ... you will KNOW that you were right.

alo

In Australia, if they wanted people to slow down, they would put in a speed limit. Americans could learn from Australians on this issue.

In Australia, a stop sign means stop and give way. It seems by what others are saying, in America, you have to stop, but in some situations you don't have to give way. Is that a correct understanding of American laws?

work4bike

And to add insult to injury, when you paralyze the guy, then you can sue him for causing damage to your car

work4bike

Some of what I'm hearing here is that since we're such a small minority and we don't have the same potential cause of injury with our puny bikes, it's ok to roll thru stop signs and cause others to slam on their brakes. Maybe they should take Leisesturm's advice....

Korina

Pedestrians have the right-of-way over everything (except horses, not an issue most places). In most states bicycles are legally traffic and have to follow the same rules as cars. In practice, drivers don't like to slow down if they don't absolutely have to, so the rest of us have to choose our battles. At a stop sign, cars are supposed to stop and let whoever's crossing cross, then they can go. Whether they do or not is up to the conscience of the driver.

We have speed limits, but it's been shown that drivers don't drive the speed limit, they drive as fast as they feel comfortable; and most city streets were designed for much higher speeds than what the signs say.

alo

I see a problem.

Pedestrians have right of way. Drivers are supposed to stop and let them cross, but whether they do or not is up to the conscience of the driver.

So when drivers don't stop, pedestrians could get killed.

If they completely got rid of 4 way stops, then pedestrians have to wait until the road is clear of cars before crossing, the roads would be a lot safer for pedestrians, and faster for cars.

If there is a problem for pedestrians crossing, have a bridge over the road, or put in traffic lights.

Leisesturm

That's a mighty long wait in some areas. And what if the people in that area aren't worth putting up a bridge for? Do you have any idea what pedestrian bridges cost? Clearly no. More traffic lights would slow drivers down even more than stop signs. Drivers should stop when necessary. More could than do. I'm going to get h8 for observing that, the data shows that drivers stop for members of their tribe, and hit members not of their tribe, at disproportionate rates. One study using professional stuntmen dressed like regular pedestrians showed a clear reluctance of drivers to get on the brakes quickly when they were called upon to stop for jaywalkers not of their tribe.

alo

There may be a small proportion of arrogant drivers. But I think with the majority, pedestrians are not as visible as cars, and may not always be seen.

I would stop for pedestrians doing stupid things, but lean on the horn to warn them.

I am sometimes a pedestrian, sometimes a cyclist, and sometimes a driver. I don't feel anyone is not my tribe.

plowmanjoe

because traffic lights magically stop disobedient drivers?

also instead of a pedestrian bridge, we can just ban walking all together. cars won't have to look out for peds ever again.

Leisesturm

How about we ban cars? In large metro areas at the very least. Pedestrians have a 10,000 year head start. Cars have only been a thing since around 1920. People have been around since 10,000 B.C.

Leisesturm

Heh, ok, I'll give you that one. But by 'tribe' I was not referring to a persons mode of transit ...

alo

Because I am sometimes a pedestrian, sometimes a cyclist, and sometimes a driver, I relate to all of them. When I am a driver, I don't suddenly hate pedestrians and cyclists. I think we should consider the perspective of others, and do what is best for everyone.