Cibi42

hi all, over the weekend i came across a n+3 bike. It’s not a top of the line and is on the upper edge of too big for me, but couldn’t resist it the chrome lugs and the victor seat cluster.
After a little bit of reading online it looks like it’s a Carlton Criterium from around 1970 with all OEM parts, including the saddle. Having steel components, it’s actually not quite as heavy as i was expecting, still not a fancy reynolds tubing, and should clean ip quite nicely. It’s not a fancy Italian stallion but should be a fun project.

Now, any clue on how to read these numbers, can’t make it match anything i find online...?
Thanks for your help!

Cougrrcj

You're on your own! I had a hard enough time dating on my own... especially being a no-car geek on a bike in high school...












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In all seriousness, I'm sure one of the English bike guys will be along shortly....

Enjoy the ride!




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bulgie 

Unfortunately there is info on how to date them in the range of '39 to '67 and the later range of '73 to '81
But the space in between is a bit of a mystery.

Quoting from a website that doesn't exist anymore, but you can see it here via the Wayback Machine: Dating Carltons
"From 1968 to 1972 two numbering systems were used. The majority of models had simple numbers, up to seven digits, sometimes with leading zeros, stamped on the left rear dropout, at the top of the seat tube to the rear or under the bottom bracket. I do not have sufficient data to analyse these numbers and relate them to specific years."

Please do post here any info you can find -- good luck!

Cibi42

Well, it looks like it’s going to take a but more digging... thanks for the replies, i’ll keep looking around.

I found an almost identical twin (slightly different crankset) online on retrobike forum Carlton Criterium | Retrobike that describes the bike as a 1970 but i’m not sure how they came up with that date.

i’ll go through the catalogues, it seems like there are quite a few online, and work by elimination.

even if i can’t identify a precise date, i should be able to get a ball park, and either way it will satisfying to clean it up and bring it back to some glory.

juvela

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Dating -

this model of Juy Prestige shift lever launched in 1970; for the most part we did not see it on bicycles until 1971

the Juy Prestige rear mech model 637 also launched 1969-70

you may find a date marking on its backside such as this -



the cycle's Weinmann brake calipers may exhibit a date mark on the backside of the caliper arms in the form of a clockface, altough suspect they are a bit early for this type of marking



these saddles sometimes have a date mark stamped into the underside of the cantle

the cycle's wheel rims do not show up very well in the photos. if by chance they are Rigida SUPERCHROMIX they may have a date stamped inside of a small diamond symbol as here -



lastly, there may be a marking in the centre section of the bottom bracket spindle

hope this helps you a bit...

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usage note -

before riding PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE lower the stem -

"DANGER Will Robinson!"

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bulgie 

I have a scan of the 1970 Carlton catalog here, not very high-res unfortunately. I can see that the Criterium model had a Williams crank, the same one as on the retrobike forum. Williams chainrings also have a date code stamped in them, so that can help dating a bike.

You different crank could mean an earlier or later model year, or just a running change -- as we know happens -- real world bikes don't always match the catalog spec. Or your bike could have had the crank swapped by a previous owner.

I know, I'm not helping! Good luck.

juvela

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Williams chainset specification in 1970 catalogue -

one can often catch them using illustrations from an earlier year in their materials - perhaps under time pressure to get the publication to the printer.

subject cycle's chainset is Verot model 52:


Presently thinking 1971 for a birthdate of the cycle.

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cudak888 

Just dropping in to say how nice it looks given that it's not on the top of the pecking order.

With no derailer hanger and those slack angles, this thing could be converted into a IGH path racer with a 1940's look - even though the base bike is from the 1960's.

-Kurt

Cibi42

Brilliant! thanks for all these cues, I'll check when I come home. I'll let you know what I find.
The William crank catalogue looks really nice (they look very old fashion but quite cute in that) and useful, thanks.

"before riding PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE lower the stem -" Yep, the guy who had it before was a tall fellow and raised the stem far past scary level, you can even see the slot. Luckily I don't think he rode it too much...

Bulgie, the catalogue doesn't seem to load at the moment but I'll try again later (and thanks for loading all these up, it's been an invaluable resource, and a pleasure to peruse).

Kurt, it would be lovely, but as it looks like it has all OEM parts I'm feeling like they should stay there. At least for the moment ;-)

Road Fan

I would expect that Carlton to have a very nice ride quality. The chainstays are quite long, the seat tube is rather laid back, and the fork has a lot of curvature. I would certainly take it out for a bunch of familiarization rides after overhauling the bearings that need it, and not do much weight-weenying or hot-rodding before you have a sense of how the original rides.

systemBuilder

Carlton stopped using those belt-buckle decals (changing to inverted triangles) in 1973, so it's 1972 or earlier.
Carlton stopped putting the model name inside the belt buckles ("Criterium") around 1968.
It actually has 1st generation fastback "victor" seat stays which is 1967-1969 thing:

https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Retro-Raleighs/68-69_Carlton.pdf

Those rear seatstays were strengthened the next year and used to create the giro d'italia (Raleigh Pro in the USA).
So it's a 1967 or 1968 bike, I have read the specs and the 1968 supercourse had the "shot-in" victor fastback stays, i did not know the criterium did, too.

- Don Gillies
Palo Alto, CA, USA

Wildwood 

Much later, but an original Carlton Competition, 1979 - off the top of my old head. 1st owner said it was among the last out of Worksop. Still in the lower echelon of Carlton frames, without a derailleur hanger.

The seller was a nice chap and close to home. The price was right. The size a tad big.

Cibi42

Thanks for these details, that's earlier than I originally thought.
I unfortunately sold it this summer, it was just that much too tall for me that I didn't ride enough. It's supposed to have a nice life in Vancouver now.