[Carbon Fiber] Would this bike scare you?
Likes For Lombard:
#127
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,879
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3905 Post(s)
Liked 7,181 Times
in
2,905 Posts
...you like that .3% number I see. Stick with what you believe, sir. There are far too many people willing to abandon their belief systems, that are supported by small numbers, in order to risk calculation of total energy expense over a long course in windy conditions. Do not be that person.
Why don't you do your own calculation and tell us what you get?
#128
Sock Puppet
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times
in
573 Posts
The total extra energy expenditure, if the rider was accelerating every second of 112 mile ride, would be (about) 0.3%. But he wouldn't be accelerating the whole time, so the actual overall extra energy expenditure is much lower.
Why don't you do your own calculation and tell us what you get?
Why don't you do your own calculation and tell us what you get?
Likes For Lombard:
#129
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26247 Post(s)
Liked 10,229 Times
in
7,098 Posts
...your back of the napkin number is suspect. There are more variables in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your equation. Your argument, from the moment you chimed in on this, has been that somehow, it's experimentally valid to approach this from the POV of one isolated variable, which can be quickly calculated using the standard formula. Mine has been, and continues to be, that I am not the one who dragged rotational mass of the wheels into this discussion. But once Lombard decided it must be relevant, and that I was misleading people, I presented a reasonable explanation of why it's still a valid component of the energy expended when riding your bicycle, even though as speeds increase, aerodynamics of rider and bicycle become much more of factor...I think I said by a factor of about ten. I then linked a blog post about this stuff, so you could see what I was talking about, which you repeatedly have insisted I do not understand. I gave it so you, and others, could see the small differences in the various wheels he was using as a statistical base.
I think that is when you responded:
Then, in for a penny, in for a pound, you decided to make this pronouncement.
...I don't need to do the calculations to know that:
1. you will disagree with it.
2. any energy savings in a long event like the ones triathletes endure is probably worth it to them to improve their results.
3. the human engine only operates at a peak efficiency of about 25%.
4. I am tired of this discussion.
5. and finally, I detest it when people use the royal we in these threads.
__________________
#130
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26247 Post(s)
Liked 10,229 Times
in
7,098 Posts
#131
Senior Member
Thread Starter
You know, I've been known to throw bombs and run before, but I just want to go on record as saying this thread was a legit question. Had no idea it was going to
Likes For VegasJen:
Likes For Lombard:
#133
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,286 Posts
Every frame material thread ever posted on bikeforums has gone of the rails and ended up as a trainwreck, so don`t be surprised if yours has too. Sit back relax and enjoy the entertainment.
#134
Sock Puppet
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times
in
573 Posts
Anybody want to talk about which chain lube is best or whether rim or disc brakes are better?
#135
Senior Member
Thread Starter
#136
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,879
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3905 Post(s)
Liked 7,181 Times
in
2,905 Posts
You could have done the calculation in one-tenth the time it took you to write your post. But, that might have deprived us of this pearl:
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
and finally, I detest it when people use the royal we in these threads.
Likes For tomato coupe:
#137
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,879
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3905 Post(s)
Liked 7,181 Times
in
2,905 Posts
#138
Sock Puppet
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times
in
573 Posts
Then you went off the rails with the "true believer" thing.
tomato coupe also tried to explain the same thing I did.
You then went on about how we've never ridden heavy steel rims.
tomato coupe tried to explain to you again.,
You then got butthurt and took it personally that he was implying you didn't know physics.
If yours was indeed a troll response, I'll have to admit it was a pretty good one. Keep on trollin'!
Last edited by Lombard; 11-30-22 at 08:15 PM.
#139
Senior Member
Thread Starter
#142
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,879
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3905 Post(s)
Liked 7,181 Times
in
2,905 Posts
#143
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26247 Post(s)
Liked 10,229 Times
in
7,098 Posts
.
...the victory dance at the end is always interesting. It's good to see people finding friends in General Cycling.
...the victory dance at the end is always interesting. It's good to see people finding friends in General Cycling.
__________________
#144
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,879
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3905 Post(s)
Liked 7,181 Times
in
2,905 Posts
Likes For tomato coupe:
#145
Grupetto Bob
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 6,066
Bikes: Bikey McBike Face
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2512 Post(s)
Liked 5,427 Times
in
2,826 Posts
...your back of the napkin number is suspect. There are more variables in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your equation. Your argument, from the moment you chimed in on this, has been that somehow, it's experimentally valid to approach this from the POV of one isolated variable, which can be quickly calculated using the standard formula. Mine has been, and continues to be, that I am not the one who dragged rotational mass of the wheels into this discussion. But once Lombard decided it must be relevant, and that I was misleading people, I presented a reasonable explanation of why it's still a valid component of the energy expended when riding your bicycle, even though as speeds increase, aerodynamics of rider and bicycle become much more of factor...I think I said by a factor of about ten. I then linked a blog post about this stuff, so you could see what I was talking about, which you repeatedly have insisted I do not understand. I gave it so you, and others, could see the small differences in the various wheels he was using as a statistical base.
I think that is when you responded:
Then, in for a penny, in for a pound, you decided to make this pronouncement.
And took great offense at my suggestion that, were I to believe this, the next big thing would be steel deep aero rims for bikes. I mean, why not ? Steel is cheap to manufacture, and apparently once you get them up to speed, everything will be glorious. If weight isn't really something to worry about, you can internally gusset them, and probably use fewer spokes. What's not to like ? But you are stuck in this world where everything you see to compare is pretty light, while wind resistance is the last big hurdle to going faster on a bike. I have genuinely tried to politely give you some idea of why your gross simplification of this problem is, at its best, inaccurate. Now, I no longer care. It's not my job. You want to be "right" ? Be my guest.
...I don't need to do the calculations to know that:
1. you will disagree with it.
2. any energy savings in a long event like the ones triathletes endure is probably worth it to them to improve their results.
3. the human engine only operates at a peak efficiency of about 25%.
4. I am tired of this discussion.
5. and finally, I detest it when people use the royal we in these threads.
I think that is when you responded:
Then, in for a penny, in for a pound, you decided to make this pronouncement.
And took great offense at my suggestion that, were I to believe this, the next big thing would be steel deep aero rims for bikes. I mean, why not ? Steel is cheap to manufacture, and apparently once you get them up to speed, everything will be glorious. If weight isn't really something to worry about, you can internally gusset them, and probably use fewer spokes. What's not to like ? But you are stuck in this world where everything you see to compare is pretty light, while wind resistance is the last big hurdle to going faster on a bike. I have genuinely tried to politely give you some idea of why your gross simplification of this problem is, at its best, inaccurate. Now, I no longer care. It's not my job. You want to be "right" ? Be my guest.
...I don't need to do the calculations to know that:
1. you will disagree with it.
2. any energy savings in a long event like the ones triathletes endure is probably worth it to them to improve their results.
3. the human engine only operates at a peak efficiency of about 25%.
4. I am tired of this discussion.
5. and finally, I detest it when people use the royal we in these threads.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
#146
Grupetto Bob
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 6,066
Bikes: Bikey McBike Face
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2512 Post(s)
Liked 5,427 Times
in
2,826 Posts
Jenn, congratulations on getting another multi-page thread goin. Little did you ever imagine it would transmongrafie into this. At least you are keeping the natives busy and entertained.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
Likes For rsbob:
#147
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26247 Post(s)
Liked 10,229 Times
in
7,098 Posts
...were I her, I'd be careful about celebrating this thread. It gives her very little justification for buying the CF plastic bike she wants / needs, and more or less relegates her to the tri pack fodder bikes, that are available cheaply all over the place. According to expert opinion here, weight don't matter in a triathlon. You just point that sucker in one direction, like a flywheel at speed, and turn it loose for 100 miles. A real (wo)man could do that on a Raleigh three speed.
And I'm pretty sure these guys are telling you, you didn't really need those wheels.
__________________
Likes For 3alarmer:
#148
Grupetto Bob
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 6,066
Bikes: Bikey McBike Face
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2512 Post(s)
Liked 5,427 Times
in
2,826 Posts
Likes For rsbob:
Likes For VegasJen: