Vinnems

Maybe I'm just imagining it, or maybe I'm missing something?
In my stable, my main road bikes are a De Rosa and Panasonic. Both are very similar in size: 510 mm seat tube (CtoC) for both, while the De Rosa has a 530 mm top tube and the Panasonic has a 52.2 cm. Because of that, I have an 80 mm stem on the De Rosa and a 90 mm on the Panasonic. Handlebars, grips, seats, etc. are both pretty much the same size on both bikes. From the tip of the seat to the handles bars is the same for both bikes: 470 mm. All that considered, I still feel more stretched out when riding the De Rosa compared to the Panasonic. Like I feel I have to lean forward more to be in the same positions on the Panasonic. Because of that, and also because the De Rosa looks much nicer, I ride the Panasonic most of the time but want to start putting equal time on both bikes, especially since they shouldn't be different in fit.
Here are pictures of the two bikes. Anything stick out between the two? Anything I should try adjusting on the De Rosa?

Branko D

I can see the hoods are rotated a bit further back on the Panasonic, or are my eyes deceiving me? Anyway, that's 10mm of shorter effective reach on the Panasonic if the hoods are mounted a bit higher up.

What I'd do is place the bike with the back wheel to a wall and standing as upright as you can make it, take a measuring tape and measure the saddle setback to the bottom bracket (just measure distance of bottom bracket to wall and distance of saddle nose and subtract), the handlebar reach to the bottom bracket, and also the reach from the bottom bracket to the start of the hoods (again, distance from wall to the start of hoods - the distance to the bottom bracket). Also measure the stack (vertical distance from bottom bracket to the center of handlebar tops, again, you measure distance from both to the floor and subtract) and height of the top of the saddle from the bottom bracket through the seat tube.

You'll probably find that the fit coordinates of the two bikes aren't exactly the same, and if you're already near the limits of comfort (which I would hazard a guess is the case - the saddle being slid towards the front and tilted down on both), one can be fine and the other not. If the DeRosa has less saddle setback or more saddle height that might be "throwing" you towards the handlebars, in effect.

urbanknight

Things that can affect the overall cockpit length:
Top tube length
Seat tube angle
Stem length
Handlebar reach
Saddle fore/art position
Seatpost setback

tFUnK

If I squint, perhaps the two seatposts have different setback?

Handlebar reach (the length of the forward bend of the drop) is another one to look out for.

Saddles vary in length so using the nose as the anchor point won't be helpful if comparing different models. I try to gauge where the seatpost (imaginary extension) would intersect the "center" of the saddle (not the actual center but the place on the saddle where the width = x, and this is my target regardless of which saddle).

Seat tube angle doesn't actually change the overall reach but if they're different then the two frames will put you in a slightly different crouch position which might be perceived as one feeling too laid out.

Zaskar

Yeah, the only obvious differences are the rotation of the hoods and the stem length - the Panasonic has a much longer stem. Combining that with your very steep saddle angle, yeah, you're going to feel that. The more your saddle points down, the more weight you're putting on your hands. That would probably exacerbate even small changes up front.

seypat

Looks like both the the seatpost and handlebar stem are "slammed" on the De Rosa compared to the Panasonic. More saddle to bar drop on the Panasonic also. With those setups, the Panasonic appears to be the bigger bike. I would think you'd be more stretched on the Panasonic. The saddle on the Panasonic has the downward curve. You maybe sliding forward more on the Panasonic with the downward pointing saddles. Rotate the saddles where the noses are pointing upward and see if that changes the feel between the 2 bikes..

freeranger

The bar on the Panasonic appears to have less of a bend, seem to be "angled" which would effectively put the hoods closer to the rider. Looks like moving the levers up might help.

DaveSSS 

I always use the same saddle and first get the saddle height and setback of the saddle tip from the crank center to my standard amount, using a plumb bob. After that, I make sure the saddle to bar drop is set to my standard 10cm, using a level and tape measure. The bikes should both be sitting on a level floor. Then I take measurements from the saddle tip to the brake hoods, where the crook of my thumb rests. It's not always possible to get perfect agreement with only 10mm stem length adjustments. I'm willing to make adjustments to brake hood position or move the saddle fore/aft position 5mm.

Iride01 

You are pretty much showing why you can't assume that just because you fit on a certain size for one model of bike that you will need the same size in another model of bike. Even if they are the same brand of bike. Don't assume you'll ride the same size bike when you look for another bike or are comparing bikes.

Geometry matters. You have a top tube length difference according to you and there is even a stem length difference too as seen in the pic's. Though your bars look similar in dimension, drop bars have differing reach measurements too that can alter how far you feel stretched out.

Seat tube angle can affect how you perceive you position on the bike. There might be a difference between your DeRosa and Panasonic that puts your butt in a different position over the BB that changes everything about your perceptions.

genejockey 

The levers on the DeRosa are set a LOT lower than on the Panasonic. On the Panasonic, the tips of the brake levers are in line with the bottom of the drops. On the DeRosa, they're at least an inch lower. Try moving the lever on the DeRosa up to where they are on the Panasonic.

Koyote

I don't think it's related to your "stretched out" feeling, but good grief -- why are the saddles tilted downward so drastically? That will put undue pressure on your hands and arms as you use them to keep yourself from sliding forward.

zandoval 

I used to be able to jump on just about any set up with out problems and ride. Not so today. I have been forced to set up my bikes as close to the same as possible. Just millimeters difference gives me big changes in comfort.

Rats...

Kapusta

Difference in seat tube angle?

Since you are running the same saddle (I think) are the noses the same distance back from the BB?

mstateglfr 

The bikes are not set up the same. If you want to ride the DeRosa more frequently, either accept the pain or change the setup. Pretty simple.
While you change the setup, maybe level the saddles out too? There is no right or wrong way to ride a bike, but if I were to imagine an uncomfortable way to ride a bike it would involve continually sliding forward and having to push my body weight backwards while riding.

cyclezen

...and visually, the bars on the De Rosa seem to have more reach (could be an optical thing... but the pic orientations seem close enough to draw this conclusion).
the bar reach seems to be at least 1cm longer/further forward- additive to the difference of the Brifters location.
Ride On
Yuri

Vinnems

Follow up on this. Since I was retaping the Derosa bars, I played around with the brifter position, as some suggested. I was amazed at how big of a difference it made for my comfort by moving them up a little bit! I rode around a bit testing various positions on it, found one that felt most comfortable, and locked it in and taped it up. Feels MUCH better to ride it now.
Also, I see a few mentions on the seat level. How can I adjust it to make it more flat? They each have two bolts that hold two brackets that go over the seat rails. I have them both making full contact with the rails, which to me seemed what to do to make it stable. I see that I can loosen the front one, which raises the nose, but wouldn't that make it less stable and somewhat bouncy?

Iride01 

Thanks for the update.

If that is a two bolt clamp on the DeRosa, one forward and one rear, then you loosen one bolt and tighten the other. On saddles without a cut out in them that can be a pain if the heads of the bolts are on top of the clamp.