Steve_sr

This has certainly caused some head scratching. I am working on a new GRX build. I wen to put the cassette on the hub only to find that the Shimano lock ring wouldn't tighten down all the way.

The hub is a White Industries CLD
The cassette is a Shimano CS-HG800-11 with aluminum lock ring

To answer the simple question the supplied 1.8mm spacer was installed behind the cassette. Further troubleshooting revealed that an old 10-speed CS-6600 steel lock ring would seat all the way in the freehub. However, the aluminum one would not tighten all the way to the freehub. It left about a .040" gap. This .040" gap appears to be at the place that the threads stop on the lock ring. See photo.

Have any of you run into this before and if so what is the solution? Is either part defective and if so, which one? Have folks forgotten how to manufacture threads during the pandemic? Your thoughts?

Crankycrank

Just looking at the 6600 lockring I have, don't have an HG800, I can see it has fewer threads and also the thin spacer with the tabs on it don't protrude as far onto the threads. Try taking off the spacer on the lockring and see if it will go on all the way.

HillRider

0.040" is 1mm. I wonder if you need a 1mm spacer behind the cassette like the ones Shimano includes with all of their 10-speed cassettes.,

Steve_sr

It looks like that "spacer" is just a lock washer shim. It also looks like it is made to go on and not come off. The issue appears to be that the threads on the 6600 ring are undercut at the bottom of the lockring whereas the HG800 ring is not. I suspect that Shimano did this due to the relative strength deficit of the aluminum vs steel lockring.The photo clearly shows where the threads stop engaging. It is not coming close to hitting the shim.

Steve_sr

Interesting idea but even without the cassette in place the lockring still won't thread in all the way.

FBinNY 

If you can't raise the bridge, lower the water.

The key to freehub systems is to bring the ER be cassette out of to meet the locking.

So, do the logical thing and add a spacer behind the cassette.

tFUnK

The cassette appears to be a 11sp MTB cassette. I thought I read somewhere that Shimano 11sp MTB cassettes have the same stack height as Shimano 10sp road cassettes. If so, a 1mm spacer, typically used for installing 10sp cassettes on 11sp hubs, will be necessary.

Steve_sr

Well, the cassette came with a 1.85mm spacer which was insufficient. Also adding yet another 1mm spacer will push the smallest cog of the cassette off of the end of the freehub by the extra 1mm. This doesn't seem right.

This is supposedly a GRX cassette and not true MTB. The GRX supposedly adopted and renamed Shimano road components.

FBinNY 

You can agonize over what "should" work, or you can analyze what's wrong and MAKE it work.

So.

1- the locking. It's practically impossible to thread fully up to a shoulder, so all lockrings have an incomplete thread to be some degree. The design solution is usually a bit of "thread relief" (inside chamfer) in the freehub body. So, look there and see if there's enough relief, and if not, consider adding more.

Or buy a new lockring, with completed threads nearer the shoulder.

2- overhang. Normal is 1-2mm, but some more is acceptable if the first sprocket is thick enough to still engage the splines decently. (2mm or so)

Rules and specs don't matter here because they're trumped by the specific details.

Make a decision, and either bring the be cassette out, or do what you need to screw the lockring farther.

Polaris OBark

[[ Deleted ]]

Steve_sr

Riddle me this Batman... "When is a Shimano 11 speed cassette NOT really an 11-speed cassette?

Steve_sr

This is a brake rotor lockring. This can't work as its O.D. will block the smallest cog.

Polaris OBark

Sorry, you are right. I mis-read the question. I do have a few sets of White Industry hubs and had to use this for (front) brake rotors...

icemilkcoffee 

This is not quite correct. As best as I understand it:
1. Shimano 10 speed cassette have a dished-in back side. Such that it is narrower than a 9 sp cassette. Hence when you install a Shimano 10 sp cassette on a 8-9 freehub body, you'll need a 1mm spacer, which came with the 10 sp cassettes. Now if you have a 10 speed only freehub, you might not need that 1mm spacer- I'm hazy there.
2. Shimano 10 speed cassette on 11sp freehub body. You will require the 1.85mm spacer, PLUS the original 1mm spacer that came with the 10 sp cassette.
3. Shimano MTB 11s cassette (ie. 34T or larger largest cog) also has a dished in back, and is the same width as the 10 speed with 1mm spacer. Hence 11sp mtb cassette requires 1.85mm spacer to go on 11 sp freehub
4. Shimano road 11s cassette does not need any spacer to go on an 11 sp freehub.

79pmooney

Couldn't you simply add a 1mm washer on the flange of that locknut? (I don't know where to find it but I'd consider making one. Get some 1mm aluminum sheet. Cut a small rectangle and screw or nail the four corners to a block of wood. Secure to the table of a drill press. Drill out the ID with the appropriate hole saw. Now, using the same pilot drill hole, do the same with a hole saw of appropriate ID to the desired OD. Presto, your washer. Clean up with a fine file and install.

I make washers like that to fine tune fix gear cog locations. (No, not for chainline but to hold the cogs, when flipped, far enough from the spokes that the chain interference is minimal.) I am doing with sheet much thinner than 1mm and I've been able to reuse the washers when I change cogs. I am also guessing the torque they see between fix gear cog and hub applied with my legs is greater than what you apply with a wrench to your lockring. (Guessing because I lived as a late teen in a football dorm of a pigskin power. There were players with arms bigger than my thighs.)

Edit: I try to minimize required dish and my approach doesn't move the cassette outboard. In fact, if the cassette sat well at the inboard end with no spacer, I'd consider making a thicker outboard washer and removing a little wheel dish if my frame had clearance for the now extended lockring.

And the fine print - I do not have your wheel or bike in my hand so I am just doing good old internet speculation. Worth every cent of your you paid for it. But not your time.

squirtdad

per White industries site you need https://www.whiteind.com/product/fre...ssette-spacer/
from cld hub infor:

• Cassette spacer included only on XDR freehub bodies
  • Available separately for Shimano HG11 (part# SPACER11)

but it says the same for the T11 hubs and I am pretty sure I put with the

CS-HG800-11 on the T11 with just the spacer that came from Shimano

I do remember putting the cassete on and not be able to get the lock ring flush and going back and putting the spacer on, but did not use 2 spacers


the CS_HG000-11 is a bit of an oddity.... it is labeled by shimano as Ultegra https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ...-HG800-11.html

Steve_sr

BINGO! Apparently certain versions of this cassette only have the stack height of a regular 10-speed cassette therefore requiring a 1.8mm spacer. However, this makes the cassette hang over the end of the freehub by 2.0mm which doesn't look right either.

So which variants of the CS-HG800-11 are 11-speed stack and which are 10-speed stack I can't find documented anywhere.

70sSanO

While not the same application, I’ve used an outboard spacer, like 79pmooney, to get a lockring not to bottom. That, however, was bottoming against a freehub body end, not a thread depth issue.

If a steel lockring has fewer threads, (less depth/no shoulder), can you just use a different lockring?

John

Crankycrank

Try contacting Shimano and/or White Industries as they may have the answer.

squirtdad

I really don't think there are variants...it fits Mountain 11 speed hubs with no spaces and road 11 speed hubs with the provided 1.85 spacer
as noted fit great ON WI T11 11 speed hub with spacer.

my guess it is it will fit 10 speed road with no spacer and that is part of the confusion

Steve_sr

Probably if I can find one. However, this should work with the parts supplied.

Steve_sr

I have contacted WI and they are currently looking into it.

79pmooney

Another approach (that I wouldn't do until I had another locknut in my hand) - cut/grind off enough thread that it doesn't bottom out. (This could be pretty hard steel and maybe not a whole lotta fun.)

Schweinhund

Don't know who is handling your case, but Sean Walling @ white industries has been a great help to me when I've had a problem or needed a pointer.

SoSmellyAir

I am not Batman, but a Shimano 11-34 cassette (CS-HG800-11 & CS-HG700-11) is not really an 11-speed road cassette.