Andy_K 

Hey everyone, long-time BF member, but folding bike newbie here. I just got my first folding bike, and I was hoping to get some information about a few things.

The bike I got is a used Citizen Tokyo with 16 inch wheels. I know, it's not what you'd have recommended, but I think it was a good fit for my needs. Periodically, my company sends me from Oregon to the SF Bay Area on the company shuttle. I can (I think!) take a folding bike along in a bag as checked luggage so I can get around down there without having to take Uber/Lyft. (Believe it or not, I've gotten this far without so much as installing either of their apps.) Typically I expect flat rides of around 1-2 miles, but my first experiment with this is going to involve an 11 mile ride (still dead flat) from the San Jose Jet Center to a conference I'm attending in San Jose. I don't imagine I'll use it for anything longer than that.

The bike was in kind of rough shape when I got it, but I stripped it down, cleaned and lubed everything, gave it new tires, and replaced a few parts I didn't like. Today I took it out for a first shakedown ride -- 7 miles from a local park-and-ride to my workplace.

Gratuitous picture:



Now my questions....

1. The bike feels wobbly, particularly at low speeds -- like it goes straight, but the front wheel is flopping back and forth much more tangibly than I'm used to. Is that normal? A bi-product of the tiny wheels maybe? Will I get used to it? It's very disconcerting. I feel like a kid just learning to ride a bike for the first time.

2. The seatpost isn't quite long enough to give me the bottom bracket to saddle extension I normally use. The seatpost doesn't actually have a minimum insertion mark on it, but I decided that I should have the bottom of the post go down at least to the bottom of the top tube (do you still call it that when it's the only tube?). Am I being too conservative? The post is 550mm long and I think 32mm in diameter (I was expecting 31.8, but my calipers say 32). I don't want to spend more money on this thing, but I am curious whether aftermarket seatposts are even available in this size. Is there anything I can do about this?

3. I replaced the original crankset, which was some awful heavy steel piece with a 48T chainring and (broken) plastic chain guides on both sides of the ring. My replacement crank is using a 52T ring, which still leaves the upper gearing kind of low but is fine for my needs. The problem here is that within the first 10 feet of riding I dropped the chain. It didn't happen again on my first ride, but I was kind of staying away from the big cog. I've used 1xN setups in cyclocross, and so I know a whole bag of tricks for fixing chain drop. Some of them won't work here because, for example, the seat tube is way bigger than any clamp-on guides. I might have a plastic band guide that will work, but I don't know where it is. Maybe just moving the chainring to the inner position or otherwise improving the chainline will fix this? Any other suggestions?

4. Do I need to worry about the rear derailleur or anything else when I've got it in a soft bag and handed over to baggage handlers? The original rear derailleur was some clunky Shimano sub-Tourney thing that was probably bomb-proof. I replaced it with a Shimano 600 Tri-Color that I had on the shelf. It works better but may be more fragile. What do you think?

5. I swapped in a Specialized Phenom saddle, which is what I always use on my road bikes. Of course, I've got a much more upright position on this bike. I kind of felt that on my way in to work. Should I consider going back to the couch-like saddle that this bike came with? Or maybe just something wider than the Phenom?

6. Anything else I haven't thought about but should?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Pinigis 

See my responses in Red above

Andy_K 

The hub feels good to me. I should clarify that when I say the wheel is flopping I mean the whole steering apparatus -- wheel, fork, handlebars, etc. This may literally be a case of me re-learning to ride a bike. I've got general below average coordination and balance, and the geometry on this bike is radically different from what I'm used to. I may just need to develop new muscle memory. It didn't seem as bad on the way home, and when I did notice it consciously relaxing my elbows seemed to fix it.


I'm at 100mm right now, but that includes the bit of seat tube that extends above the main tube. My preferred saddle height would put it closer to 50mm, and that is almost entirely the section above the main tube, so that seems a bit risky. I'm not a tall guy (5'9"). Is this really just a one-size-fits-some situation? Or do I need to adjust my expectations about riding position. It's not like I can't ride it this way, but it's definitely drawing in different muscle groups than I'm used to.


Of course. I guess what I was asking is whether people here who ride both road bikes and folding bikes find that they prefer a wider saddle and/or more cushioning on the folding bike. A hint to guide my search if you will. For the distances I'm going to be riding this, I could just live with it as is, but I like to optimize things.


Thanks for your input!

Ron Damon

Now my questions....

1. The bike feels wobbly, particularly at low speeds -- like it goes straight, but the front wheel is flopping back and forth much more tangibly than I'm used to. Is that normal? A bi-product of the tiny wheels maybe? Will I get used to it? It's very disconcerting. I feel like a kid just learning to ride a bike for the first time
I ride 305 16" wheels frequently. Just did 50km today on one such wheeled bike today. No, your wheel is wobbly cuz it's wobbly. Nothing to do with its size. Get it checked out.

Schwinnsta

I ride a Brompton with a 349 16-inch wheel, and it feels like it's juddering. I believe this is due to low trail constantly correcting it. It is normal behavior on the Brompton. The only other 16-inch wheel bike I had was a Moulton. It was a long time ago, but I do not recall it juddering.

willydstyle

It's interesting that you assume the bargain-bin shimano derailleur would be "bomb proof" because in my experience they are finicky and unreliable, and your derailleur upgrade should work a lot better and require less maintenance.

Fentuz

As many others said, for safety reason, check for steerer/headset play; turn tyre 90deg or 3oclock squeeze the front brake and rock the bike forwards and backward to see if there is some play. If there is, put a rope on the brake lever to keep it lock and do it again but this time, put a finger on each junction (fork to frame, handlebar joint etc.) so that you can feel where the play is coming from.

if all good, then it is the usual 16” feel which is different compared to 700c.


seatpost, depending of your weight, you can try litepro post (80kg max). Or, look into tern twin tube (telescopic tube).

if you keep derailling, then the chainline or the FD is not good so start with the easy thing, derailleur alignement and avoid cross chaining. If the chain line is to far out, it may be the crankset as the wrong offset. The litepro works well with folding bike. Or you can swap the sealed bottom bracket for another on with less offset (i had to do that of my jetstream)

derailleur, if you have a cassette setup, I would not bother with shimano tricolor thingy. If the rear derailleur break and you want a 7 speed, put a cheap altus m310 (like current dahon dahon and other kids bike).
or, if you have a cassette, swap for something like sora/alivio 9speed with more range (7-8an9 speed shimano have the same ratio so they can be mixed and matched).
or if you have the fund, and will, switch to tiagra or zee 10 speed.

Tourist in MSN

1 - When you say flopping around, if you mean that the bikes you rode before, the wheel would hold a straight forward line more as you rode at slow speed, the smaller wheel bike will not hold as steady at that same slow speed, yes, that is normal. Smaller wheel has less gyroscopic affect holding it in position at slow speed. I even notice that on my folder that has 24 inch wheels, compared to my 700c bikes. But, your bike front wheel should not "flop around" at higher speed where gyroscopic force holds it steadier.

4 - If you have the chain on the biggest rear sprocket in back, your rear derailleur would stick out less that if you were on the smallest sprocket. If you can figure out what thread size your rear axle is, maybe you could buy a coupling nut of that thread size. A coupling nut is a really long nut, google it. And if you found one that stuck out slightly farther than your derailleur, that might take care of your concerns. If I did that, I would also get a short bolt to go in the other end and put a fender washer over that end, so the outside end of the nut has a wider surface than just the narrow coupling nut. Some axles have an unusually fine thread for their diameter, so this might not be as easy as it sounds. But, a folder with short chainstays, if you did this and if you have long feet, your heel might hit it. Check where your heel is first when you set your right hand pedal as far back as it goes.

Andy_K 

​​​​​​Yeah, what I meant was that the cheap one is a big, chunky thing that's unlikely to be damaged by being hit.

Ron Damon

​​​​​​Why would anyone buy Deore, XT, etc. if that were case? That is not the case, in fact.

Andy_K 

Is it really that unclear what I'm saying? People would buy Deore, XT, etc. because they work better. I replaced the chunky thing because the unit I replaced it with works better. My question was about whether or not I should do something to protect the replacement.

The cheap one is made almost entirely out of steel. Whatever else may be wrong with it, it isn't fragile. I'm not saying Shimano's better derailleurs are fragile. I know they aren't, but they're made mostly of aluminum and they can be broken.

EVlove

For about $10 (and a bunch of snarky comments from some people around here ) you can get yourself one of these.

Generic pic off Amazon, not saying this one will fit your bike.

EVlove

There is no FD, he's running 1x with a 52T ring and wondering if he should be moving it inboard.

Andy_K 

Thanks. That's the kind of thing I was wondering about. I take it they aren't popular among this group?

Ron Damon

I, myself, buy solid RD in the first place and start from there.

Pinigis 

Se offer them, and they do a good job. They just are not aesthetically appealing.

GeezyRider 

Nice to see a photo of a bike that's not a garage queen.

willydstyle

It's also made out of cheap materials that are less resilient. If you really want a bomb-proof rear derailleur look out for Shimano Zee derailleurs. They're designed for 1x downhill bikes so they are compact and super tough.

Andy_K 

That looks pretty good. I'm most concerned about side impact during transportation (being tossed by baggage handlers) so the cheap and ugly protector would probably do what I want, but that Zee looks nice. I don't have time to get either before my first trip with the bike tomorrow. I guess I'll see how it goes and whether I need to do anything.

Ron Damon

Wait... You've got that rack spoiling the effect and you are concerned about the looks of the RD cage? 😳🙈

Ron Damon

​​​​​That RD has now been on three bikes over six years.

305 power!