Ritterview

We are seriously considering getting a used 2014 Lincoln MKT like this.




[LIST][*]The Lincoln MKT is the longest crossover I've seen. 206".[*]There's a 3rd Row seat that can be removed.[*]The distance from the rear door to the center console is 84", which is sufficient for our tandem in a fork mount.[*]The second row seats come in 60/40 bench and captain's chairs. The left 60% bench can be replaced with a left captain's seat, and thus create a center aisle.[*]Most captain's seats have a long center console contiguous with the front console. This console doesn't work for tandems and should be avoided.[*]So we are looking at a MKT with a 60/40 bench that we plan to convert to two captain's seats with a center aisle.[*]The MKT has not been a strong seller for Lincoln, it is used in a large percent by livery. Resale is poor, especially for models in colors not good for livery. Like bright red.[*]Instead of new, we are looking for cream-puff, low-mile versions that have had their first big dose of depreciation. [*]A 2014 with 2000 miles that MRSP'd for $53K will Blue Book at $35K.[*]



This is the Lincoln MKT 2d row with captain's chair and a center refrigerator console that is of one piece with the front center console. The captain's chairs are what you need for a tandem, but the long center console prevents a tandem. Most captain's chair equipped come with the console. So, in looking for a used version, look for the 60/40 bench seat with a normal console, remove the left 60% bench seat and source a left captain's chair to match the right captain's chair that forms the 40% of the right bench.



Here's the 60/40 Bench seat. Note no 2d row center console.

DubT

There was a recent article in Forbes or another magazine listing the 15 current worse cars. Both Lincolns were on it, the article did not recommend them at all and basically said not to buy it.

Ritterview

The MKT is not on the list of Consumers Reports, which has a lot more data than Forbes, which doesn't tell me anything I don't already know.

I take some encouragement for the popularity of MKT with livery. If is was really bad, it'd make no sense commercially. Its based on the Ford Flex, which sells much more without a horrific reputation.

The biggest problem appears to the twin turbo engine.

The big drop in value it takes as a used car is what I'm counting on. As I mention above, I've been looking at the 2016 Audi Q7, but that's not going to fit a tandem as well, and it'll cost >$60K. I like the idea of getting a car in the same category for $25K less.

twocicle

In the same week our trusty 2003 minivan clicked over 100k miles, it died tonight while on the highway and was towed in shame to a Dodge dealer for assessment. This follows last year's deer vs minivan incident on the same stretch of road and again coming home from a Tuesday night bike race in Spokane area.

Hmmm, there might be a trend here.

DubT

We are on our second Honda Odyssey and are very happy with it. We can haul the tandem with one seat removed and upon our destination remove the tandem and still carry 6 people in comfort. The base model is currently listed at under 30K. We are actually leasing one and will probably lease another one when this one comes off of lease. We currently have a 2013 and it is averaging 24 MPG, the 2014 and up have 6 speed transmissions and are supposed to get even better gas mileage.

Ritterview

A 2007 Honda Odyssey is what we use now, and it is boffo as a tandem transporter. It has 170,000 miles, and is still just fine, will need to be replaced eventually. Why not a new Odyssey? Its sorta large and a minivan, and I'd prefer something more car like, which is why I've investigated crossovers. I'd also like to prove the concept of tandems in a crossover, so that the tandem community will have a new transport option.

With the crossovers, its a game of inches, consoles and seating configuration. The distance from the rear hatch and the center console needs to be about 84". Most crossovers don't have this, and you'd have to modify the console to make room for the rear tire. That's not so easy, as the console is generally electronics laden.

The most straightforward application I've seen so far is the Lincoln MKT.

DubT

Before the 08 Honda we had an 08'Chrysler Pacifica, we could haul the tandem in it but it was a tight fit. The Pacifica was a VERY NICE crossover, I thing Daimler Benz helped with the design, it was comfortable, quiet and rode extremely well. We could haul the tandem and a single bike but there was not much room for luggage. Too bad they quit making the Pacifica.

twocicle

Some Ford Flex cargo pics and dimensions for reference see: cargo space behind third row : Ford Flex Forum

You can see in the photo with all rear seats folded flat and fronts forward, the center console rear protrudes into the cargo space. So, max 86" cargo length is somewhat obstructed by the console, if you intend to put your cargo down the centerline (ie: keeping the middle row seats upright).

Maybe the designers should consider having the center console on sliders to enable matching the front seat positions.

tegnamo

It's probably been said before, but if you're serious about interior space, a Sprinter, big Transit, or ProMaster will be the best bet. They make them in different body lengths so you don't need to get the absolute largest version, either. I have a long wheel base sprinter and it's amazing on mileage and cargo capacity.

twocicle

2003 Dodge Grand Caravan, broken valve spring. Well there goes $765 we could have used for something more fun. At least now my stoker is realizing that reliability might be important for a vehicle we use on long trips, ie: like down to Tucson. Maybe time for an upgrade.

We checked out the Flex, but the cargo area height is only some 32" tall - not enough for stoker saddle height of 36" in it's normal setup. The wide between rear wheel wells is also 7" narrower than our current vehicle.

In as much as I would like to move away from a minivan to a crossover (more of a styling thing), we do need the large cargo volume on road trips where we take multiple bikes, gear and pets with us... all stashed safe and dry inside the vehicle.

---

BTW, Dodge is discontinuing making minivans after 2015. Chrysler will continue, but at a higher price point.

Jkey6

We just took our 2007 Dragonfly 500+ miles for the XFL ride. We usually carry it by rack on my X3, but on a whim I removed the wheels and found it fit perfectly inside my wife's Prius! No rain, dirt or theft concern, and we got ~50 MPG carrying a tandem

Ritterview

A pic of this feat would be helpful here.

Jkey6

Photo is attached below - we removed both wheels, and layed the bike in the Prius on its non drive side. Pedals and everything else stays attached. The rear wheel triangle extended between the front seats 4 or 5 inches so we wrapped that section w/ a towel to keep oil away from the seats. In the pic the wheel bag is sitting on the bike, but for the drive we put it beside the bike against the door. The bike pump stood in the rear floor board on the passenger side, bike tool box sat in the rear floor board on the driver side and our over night bag (Back Pack) sat on top of the bike tool box. Handlebars have to be rotated 90 degrees, and the bike fits like a glove, maybe 1 inch to spare.

Photo of bike pic and bike in Prius below- I didn't include them initially because I had already posted them on another thread about finishing the bike build.

For local trips I'll still carry the Calfee with my X3 and rack... its easier because I only remove the front wheel, but for highway trips the Prius works much better (rain, secure, dirt etc..).

Jkey6

Here is a much better pic showing Dragonfly in Prius...

DCwom

My stoker laughed at me but I've made a full size cardboard template of our tandem to take car shopping. The magic number for our tandem with the front wheel off is 81 inches and I'm exploring the idea of going diagonal rather than over the console in a cross-over. I've measured the diagonal on a Kia Sportage and its close but shape is everything. I love our 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan for ease of loading & unloading the tandem, but we really don't want another minivan just to haul the tandem.

twocicle

I was looking at a Dodge Durango today and found the cargo length from hatch to front passenger seat (at mid track) to be ~82" long. That matches our minivan, so possibilities. It would be great if the rear seats were removable, at least along one side of the vehicle, but all are bolted in and not a straight forward task. Seems very few in the SUV class have removable rear seats, for obvious reasons I suppose (secure fastenings not relying on user to install correctly).
2014 Dodge Durango Review: Car Reviews

Anyone here haul a tandem upright in a Durango?

twocicle

Looks like Fiat/Chrysler (Dodge parent co.) has a new Ram van coming to the US, after reports that the Grand Caravan is being discontinued...

https://atlantacommercialtrucks.com/t...andmark-dodge/

Ritterview

We got our used 2014 Lincoln MKT, with 1500 miles, for very close to what its valued at Kelley Blue Book.



We haven't yet removed the third row seats. But by laying the seats flat, we can fit the tandem on its side with front wheel off in the space between the center console and the tailgate.




There's many more pics here. Tomorrow we are taking it to a customization shop, to see what can be done with the seats, to obtain our goal of having the bike fork mounted upright. We've driven around 400 miles thus far, and it is a lot nicer than a 2007 Honda Odyssey with 175,000 miles.

Ritterview

Now we can report how the MKT's working out, we've achieved uprightousness!

Here's how the tandem lines up with the MKT.



We had the 2d row 60% bench seat, and the 3rd row seat removed on the driver's side. We are looking for a captain's seat to replace the bench. We may put the left side 3rd row seat back in, as I think it can work with a modification to the panel that forms the floor when stowed. The platform for the 3rd seat remains for now, as its difficult to remove.




Here's looking back. The rear tire can be placed with a few mm clearance from the center console. The fork works best at around the height of bottom rear opening. It fits with the handlebars turned backward.




Looking back landscape, and looking in. I've got some 4 x 4's to construct a fork platform so that the fork's not dangling in the air.



Having the MKT has been great so far in long drives. Very comfortable, quiet. Maybe one of the longer crossovers like a 2016 Audi Q7 would be more refined or something, but it wouldn't fit a tandem as easily, if at all, we thought the new styling hackneyed and the price would be about $60 K. At $38K our nearly new MKT does great for us, and is a fully built Calfee Dragonfly tandem less expensive.

TrekNL2

Renault Gran Scenic or Espace will do fine.

StephenH

Okay, an update on this.
First off, I did get a Ford Transit Connect, Long Wheelbase version. These are available in long wheel base and short wheel base, the short wheel base isn't much help over a lot of other vehicles. The long wheel base is fairly common and roomy. The Dodge Ram vehicle seems to have similar interior dimensions to the LWB version, by the way.

Got it home, and had to run the tandem out to see how it fits.



Straight in, it won't fit easily.

Turning the front wheel sideways, the tandem is several inches shorter, and it will fit going straight it, with the rear wheel between the two seats. Here it is, with my wife holding it in place for the pictures.

The driver's seat is all the way back, the passenger seat is not, but it looks like in that position, it would ride fine and wouldn't intrude on my personal space at all.

Alternatively, it can go in corner-to-corner. Doing it this way, you still have to turn the front wheel. Obviously, it may depend on exactly how the seats are adjusted with this option.


With the bike in straight, if you run it in between the two seats, what hits first, on my bike, is that the derailleur cable is going to hit the armrest. So to extend it farther in, it's got to come up slightly. That would be okay, there's plenty of "up" space available, still.


For reference, this is a CoMotion Primera about 3 years old, in "Large" frame size, with 700 wheels and 32mm tires. The handlebars are Woodchippers that are fairly wide. No fenders as you can see. I'm about 6'-1", so saddles are reasonably high, but no problem on the height.

There are six tie downs on the floor. I need to make wheel holders that holds the wheels in place and a strut that attaches to the saddle to keep it upright. It seems to me that the straight-ahead position would be handier for use, and the diagonal position would be easier to make the tiedowns work. But I'll give that some thought and see what I come up with. It'll be a week and a half before I need to haul the tandem anywhere.

Oh, I said the Dodge Ram version was similar dimensions- it is, but also, the gap between the seats is smaller, so beware if you try to run it in that way. With either setup, you don't have much extra room, so a few inches difference in bike or vehicle dimensions will make a big difference in how this works.

If you look at dimensions for the vehicles, the rear doors extend several inches into the floor area and the rear seats hang several inches back in the floor area, so that makes it hard to use the floor dimensions they give.

Some comments on the vehicle itself, based on the first 100 miles-
These are sold as cargo vans. A lot of them don't have any windows in the rear part, some have only windows in the rear doors. That doesn't affect bike hauling, in face, fewer windows is more security for bike hauling, but does affect visibility. The windows on each side and back are uncommon, but that helps visibility a lot, which is why I picked this.

The rear interior is unfinished. On mine, the doors have fiberboard panels inside, and I expect that adding windows simply involved switching out doors. There are some panels on the sides, other areas where it was obviously intended to be covered with something else. On the Dodge versions, all the "windows" are either glass or steel panels that have been inserted, it's not that they don't cut the hole, they cut the hole regardless and either plug it with glass or steel panel. On the Fords, the door "windows" are like that.

They do sell passenger versions of these, usually slightly higher, and I would have bought one of those if things worked out right, but this worked out a little better.

These are intended as commercial vehicles. At a couple of the dealers I went to, that meant I wound up dealing with their "Fleet" manager and salesmen. They're wanting to sell a dozen F450's to people, these little things are absolutely the cheapest thing the Fleet Department handles, and for just one of them, they wouldn't even bother to call me back. But, at the dealership I went to, there wasn't any "Fleet" division, they were real nice and all worked out well. Just to plug 'em, that was Mac Haik Ford in Desoto, south of Dallas.

Mine is the plain-Jane no-option version. It still has automatic transmission, power windows and locks, and radio, but omits other extras. All the ones I've seen were 2015 models, but I assume the 2016 versions will be out before long.

Engine is real quiet, there is quite a bit of road noise coming from the rear, though. Ride is kind of trucky, interior is typical low-end new car. If you've driven a bunch of junky old vehicles in your day, this will all seem just grand. If you're accustomed to a plush Cadillac ride and handling or to high-dollar pickups, then maybe not.

These vehicles are basically the front end of a small car with a van built on, front-wheel drive, good gas mileage. The vehicle is minivan height, but the seats are low, so I've got like a foot of headroom in it. I could wear a top hat while I drove if I wanted to. Lots of leg room up front, seems bigger on the inside than on the outside, kinda like the Tardis.

Due to an odd tariff situation, these are actually imported from Europe as "Passenger" vehicles, then the passenger stuff is removed prior to shipping to the dealers.

I've never paid attention to these, but after looking at them more, I'm seeing lots of them on the road, mainly for commercial use. Nissan and Dodge make their own versions, both of which use Nissan's CVT transmission. I couldn't find much positive about that, so I avoided them. Mercedes makes the Sprinter van, similar, maybe a bit beefier, also pricier, also sold as Freightliner, and previously sold as Ram, I think.

These are cheaper than any pickup Ford makes. I think the Tacoma pickups would be similar pricing, and Nissan Frontiers a little cheaper, and those were my other options.

I'll try to update this when I get my hauling system finalized.

StephenH

Photos of the bike loaded in my Ford Transit Connect.
Rear piece of wood has a slot cut to hold the front tire, keeps the wheel from rolling sideways in the car, keeps the bike from moving lengthwise in the car.
Front piece of wood just keeps the tire from moving side to side. I meant to add stops to keep it from rolling, but the slot at the front wheel seems to work for that just fine.
One cord going to the seat is a bungee cord, the other is a rope with a hook on it.
The bike seems very secure for normal driving, I wouldn't expect it stay in place in rollover or anything, though.
I've got about an inch between the handlebar and the rear window.
The rear wheel isn't in the way except I can bump with my elbow when I reach for a drink in the center drink holder if I'm not careful.

BNB

Our tandem easily fits into the Tesla Model S with both wheels removed. Love that car!!

Paul J

Stephen, if you take the front wheel off, and use a fork quick-release mount, would the handle bar interfere with the rear door? We've been talking about a set-up like this as our dealer has one of the passenger version. I was thinking I'd have to take both wheels off to fit straight in. Looks good!

ReedCycle

We have had a Transit Connect Wagon (Long Wheelbase) for six months. We bought it to replace a Ford Focus Wagon that we used as our tandem hauler, which let us haul the bike inside if we took both wheels off. We don't have a garage, and one of the selling points for the Transit Wagon was that all of the rear seats fold down to create a flat load area. We used the Transit on a trip to ETR, and we easily fit all of our luggage and the bike inside with all of the seats folded down. For hauling the bike on short trips, we only have to fold 1/3 of the second row to have the bike fit. We use a Saris Traps Triple Track with a fork mount and a holder for the front wheel. We attached velcro strips to the bottom of the Triple Track and it holds tight to the floor covering. We mount the bike (a Calfee) diagonally with the rear wheel just beside the front passenger seat next to the door, and the seat can still be pushed back a comfortable distance for front leg room. Very easy to get the bike in and out, and it is great to have the bike upright with the rear wheel attached. The Transit Connect Wagon does exactly what we wanted in tandem hauler, and is fun to drive too. Very satisfied with the purchase. The two pictures show the bike in the back with 1/3 of the second row folded down, and fully loaded for our ETR trip.