Finishing Advice: Frame Plating in Copper and Nickel, reputable bike frame platers?
#1
bike camper
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 27
Bikes: 1959 Schwinn Paramount, 1995 De Rosa Primato, Soma Saga, Peugeot PY-10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Finishing Advice: Frame Plating in Copper and Nickel, reputable bike frame platers?
Greetings all,
I have had a older paramount frame that is stripped and ready for finishing. Since many of the older paramounts are full chrome, I thought I'd do a twist on the theme by plating the bike, either with copper or nickel and let the patina develop as may. Now I know purists will scoff but I intend to ride it all the time, so I am less concerned about the correctness of the finish (for now) than I am about a durable plated finish. That said it seems to be hard to find a plater that has a reputation of doing quality work on lightweight bicycles. Anyone have any plating advice or reputable source that does bikes? I am in San Francisco but could ship the frame to have the work done.
thanks for all your help!
I have had a older paramount frame that is stripped and ready for finishing. Since many of the older paramounts are full chrome, I thought I'd do a twist on the theme by plating the bike, either with copper or nickel and let the patina develop as may. Now I know purists will scoff but I intend to ride it all the time, so I am less concerned about the correctness of the finish (for now) than I am about a durable plated finish. That said it seems to be hard to find a plater that has a reputation of doing quality work on lightweight bicycles. Anyone have any plating advice or reputable source that does bikes? I am in San Francisco but could ship the frame to have the work done.
thanks for all your help!
#2
Decrepit Member
CyclArt in Vista (San Diego County near Oceanside) does nice plating, but it isn't cheap.
Plating thin tubing is a skill requiring lots of experience and requires thorough cleaning and polishing the steel tubing before plating to achieve a nice finish. If not performed properly (oven baking immediately following the plating process at the right temperature for the right time period), plating can cause hydrogen embrittlement irreversibly damaging the frame.
CyclArt has a nice write-up on the process HERE.
If you're going to plate it (I wouldn't, but it's your bike), please don't do it half-assed. That frameset is worth a lot more than you paid for it.
Plating thin tubing is a skill requiring lots of experience and requires thorough cleaning and polishing the steel tubing before plating to achieve a nice finish. If not performed properly (oven baking immediately following the plating process at the right temperature for the right time period), plating can cause hydrogen embrittlement irreversibly damaging the frame.
CyclArt has a nice write-up on the process HERE.
If you're going to plate it (I wouldn't, but it's your bike), please don't do it half-assed. That frameset is worth a lot more than you paid for it.
#3
Cat 6
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mountain Brook, AL
Posts: 7,482
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times
in
118 Posts
Someone did a copper plate on BF here a few years back, looked great - until it started deteriorating. Try a search for the story.
My searches weren't particularly fruitful, but maybe it was @23skidoo ?
My searches weren't particularly fruitful, but maybe it was @23skidoo ?
Last edited by Ex Pres; 03-27-14 at 02:59 PM.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yukon, Canada
Posts: 8,759
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
14 Posts
don't do it.
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
#5
Get off my lawn!
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 6,031
Bikes: 1917 Loomis, 1923 Rudge, 1930 Hercules Renown, 1947 Mclean, 1948 JA Holland, 1955 Hetchins, 1957 Carlton Flyer, 1962 Raleigh Sport, 1978&81 Raleigh Gomp GS', 2010 Raliegh Clubman
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 98 Times
in
48 Posts
IMO....Adds weight, bling factor gets old after a while and if the frame is not prep'ed correctly, it'll look like crap and you'll cry, weep and lament. If it ain't chrome now, just paint it. On that note, Jay Leno's Garage did a video on a painted Chrome process, looked great! Don't know who well it will wear....but it's gotta be lighter and less risky than Chroming.
Here's the video:
Jay Leno's Garage: Spray-On Chrome - YouTube
Here's the video:
Jay Leno's Garage: Spray-On Chrome - YouTube
#6
Cat 6
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mountain Brook, AL
Posts: 7,482
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times
in
118 Posts
[QUOTE=Velognome;16617522]IMO....Adds weight, bling factor gets old after a while and if the frame is not prep'ed correctly, it'll look like crap and you'll cry, weep and lament. If it ain't chrome now, just paint it. On that note, Jay Leno's Garage did a video on a painted Chrome process, looked great! Don't know who well it will wear....but it's gotta be lighter and less risky than Chroming.
West Coast Customs did an Audi A8 in that stuff. It was wild watching them "paint" the whole car. (I saw it on Velocity) It looked like it was creating a huge mess, then turns out great.
West Coast Customs did an Audi A8 in that stuff. It was wild watching them "paint" the whole car. (I saw it on Velocity) It looked like it was creating a huge mess, then turns out great.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 185
Bikes: 4
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
IMO....Adds weight, bling factor gets old after a while and if the frame is not prep'ed correctly, it'll look like crap and you'll cry, weep and lament. If it ain't chrome now, just paint it. On that note, Jay Leno's Garage did a video on a painted Chrome process, looked great! Don't know who well it will wear....but it's gotta be lighter and less risky than Chroming.
Here's the video:
Jay Leno's Garage: Spray-On Chrome - YouTube
Here's the video:
Jay Leno's Garage: Spray-On Chrome - YouTube
#8
Get off my lawn!
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 6,031
Bikes: 1917 Loomis, 1923 Rudge, 1930 Hercules Renown, 1947 Mclean, 1948 JA Holland, 1955 Hetchins, 1957 Carlton Flyer, 1962 Raleigh Sport, 1978&81 Raleigh Gomp GS', 2010 Raliegh Clubman
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 98 Times
in
48 Posts
#9
Senior Member
Despite much advise, requests and pleading on a previous thread, the OP seems bound and determined to destroy the collectable, monitary and historical value of a very valuable bike. It is his bike to do as he pleases but I for one don't wish to abet this destruction by giving him suggestions on where and how to do so.
#10
Senior Member
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 9,512
Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 789 Post(s)
Liked 1,739 Times
in
630 Posts
I'm with the others don't plate and if you feel you must pay for a proper first rat repaint restoration. Having just about any typical shop chrome the bike will basically destroy the frame at supstantial cost.
#14
Gone World Hepster
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 1,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
4 Posts
If the OP wishes to contact me via PM I'd be happy to discuss this issue rationally, minus any hissy fits from the patina police. I may be one of the few folks around here with actual experience.
#15
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,641
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2607 Post(s)
Liked 1,694 Times
in
933 Posts
Hammer.
Just hit it really hard. It'll start to sparkle.
Just hit it really hard. It'll start to sparkle.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#16
Decrepit Member
I don't believe he has enough posts yet to PM you. You can PM him with your email address, though.
#17
Get off my lawn!
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 6,031
Bikes: 1917 Loomis, 1923 Rudge, 1930 Hercules Renown, 1947 Mclean, 1948 JA Holland, 1955 Hetchins, 1957 Carlton Flyer, 1962 Raleigh Sport, 1978&81 Raleigh Gomp GS', 2010 Raliegh Clubman
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 98 Times
in
48 Posts
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Posts: 3,903
Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times
in
22 Posts
I'm starting to think he's joking with us. Who in their right minds would copper plate a bike? It would turn green and nasty in no time. If he lived near me I would give him a good deal on paint, just to see wht he would do.
#20
Get off my lawn!
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 6,031
Bikes: 1917 Loomis, 1923 Rudge, 1930 Hercules Renown, 1947 Mclean, 1948 JA Holland, 1955 Hetchins, 1957 Carlton Flyer, 1962 Raleigh Sport, 1978&81 Raleigh Gomp GS', 2010 Raliegh Clubman
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 98 Times
in
48 Posts
A little Lenten "jocularity" ................... Thanks for bein' a good sport!
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,392
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 27 Times
in
25 Posts
My Puch Bergmeister was copper plated with a translucent red over it. This was 1960 and it held up well, even though paints weren't nearly as tough as they are now. The copper plating could be clearcoated or a translucent color sprayed over it for the most beautiful Kandy you've ever seen.
There was a 1954 Chevy pickup on Fast and Loud last night with fake sprayed on rust completely covering the body. I think it sold for $25k at auction. I'm tempted to try to duplicate that finish on a bike frame.
There was a 1954 Chevy pickup on Fast and Loud last night with fake sprayed on rust completely covering the body. I think it sold for $25k at auction. I'm tempted to try to duplicate that finish on a bike frame.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,827 Times
in
1,995 Posts
The article Scooper cited from Cyclart is reasonably good. It is interesting they don't mention copper more. Often that is the layer that is used to build up and polish back to refine a surface. Note that not all bikes that were manufactured with chrome regions get anywhere near the prep mentioned in the article. When one is restoring or creating a pro level restoration it is difficult not to want to be perfect.
Cyclart, Joe Bell and Brian Baylis work from the same pool of chrome platers in San Diego. The work is not cheap as the vendors have experience and know what they are getting into, that experience is worthwhile from a quality aspect and to avoid damaging the part, but not for the price. I have witnessed a frame go flying when the buffing wheel catches on a braze-on, damage city.
Schwinn had their own plating operation in house, they did copper, nickel, chrome. And were quite proud of it, using physical examples in the retail marketing displays. Schwinn Paramounts in the 60's and 70's frequently had standard chrome and even when the paint is beat the chrome lives on. Quality work.
CV-6 had a LeJeune chrome plated for a very attractive price, I bet that the plater would not do a second frame for the same money tough.
I am very aware of the maintenance associated with copper, brass and nickel plated surfaces that are exposed to the ambient air. Copper plated steel does not age anywhere near as gracefully as the copper flashing and rain gutters one sees on some architecture which is solid copper.
#23
Decrepit Member
Schwinn had their own plating operation in house, they did copper, nickel, chrome. And were quite proud of it, using physical examples in the retail marketing displays. Schwinn Paramounts in the 60's and 70's frequently had standard chrome and even when the paint is beat the chrome lives on. Quality work.
Originally Posted by CyclArt
Chrome plating is hardly a matter of dipping an article into a tank, it is a long involved process that often starts with tedious polishing and buffing, then cleaning and acid dipping, zincating, and copper plating. This may be followed by buffing of the copper, cleaning and acid dipping again, and plating in two or three different types of nickel plating solution, all before the chrome plating is done.
#24
An un-oiled squeaky wheel
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 480
Bikes: 2013 Wilier Triestina Gran Turismo, Mercian King of Mercia (Floppy); Fuji 500X; GT backwoods; Tour de Suisse; Diamond Back Interval
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Hope the OP goes through with this and them posts the results. Should make for a fun and unique look.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,827 Times
in
1,995 Posts
Although the CyclArt write-up discusses the copper base later in the article, it's disappointing that in the beginning they don't even mention it, suggesting the nickel plating is the base. Here's the later, more detailed sequence from the article:
Schwinn's in-house chrome plating was superb, so IMHO they had reason to take great pride in it. My 1972 chrome plated Paramount still looks brand new, with virtually no discoloration or corrosion anywhere (including the BB shell where corrosion usually shows up first).
Schwinn's in-house chrome plating was superb, so IMHO they had reason to take great pride in it. My 1972 chrome plated Paramount still looks brand new, with virtually no discoloration or corrosion anywhere (including the BB shell where corrosion usually shows up first).