CompleteStreets

Something I've considered yelling at aggressive motorists while riding my bike: "Get off the road you damn cyclist!"

Maybe reverse psychology can create a moment of confusion in which the motorist actually takes a second to consider your point of view.

mgw4jc

This is brilliant, but should definitely be code "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot" instead.

mgw4jc

I actually heard that one before, but with more F-bombs and less water retention references.

I do like the reverse psychology idea. Maybe don't even look at them and yell at yourself, "Get on the sidewalk!"

PatrickGSR94

This seems like an extremely poor point of view to hold. You consider any and everything that happens to you on the road to be your fault in the end? It almost sounds analogous to "oh she was *****? Well it was probably her fault in the first place because of... (whatever)". No. Just no.

Do what you need to do to stay safe, ride visible and predictable, be assertive, all those things. But please don't ever feel like everything is your fault. And I hope you don't consider things that happen to other cyclists to always be their fault.

Bike Gremlin

I think you are taking my writing too literally.

Legally, it's a driver's fault (when I respect the traffic rules and laws).

However, both when riding, and when driving, I've avoided many accidents by compensating for other people's faults. I think one should always do their best to avoid traffic accidents.

I don't ride in driver's blind spots and would consider being hooked in that scenario my fault as much as drivers.

I'm aware bicycle is not nearly as visible as a larger, wider vehicle, so I always expect people not to give me right of way. If I know there's a chance of driver not giving me right of way, but don't correct my speed so I can stop in time if that happens - I consider it my fault.

Not legally, but I'd still consider such behaviour reckless and contributing to getting hit. I've been riding bicycles for over 30 years, all year long, as a main mean of transport as well as sport. Been hit by a car four times so far. It's always been driver's fault from the traffic law point of view, but I've learned from experience how to stay more visible, be predictive and what driver's blind spots are, when they are distracted etc. If I just followed the traffic law without considering driver's limitations, I'd get hit by a car on a daily basis. Yes, most are distracted, not paying attention etc, but I can't change them.

Abe_Froman

I agree. It's foolhardy to assume people driving either are paying attention, or have respect for your life. It's the bikers responsibility as a person who values being alive to bike in a way that keeps them safe. A traffic ticket to a driver isn't going to make you feel much better when you're in the hospital.

That being said....I'm sort of the opinion that it is always the drivers fault, even if the bicyclist is obviously at fault. Cars weigh thousands of pounds and go triple the speed of a bicycle. A bicyclist weighs 200lbs, give or take. The burden of not killing someone is on the car driver, whereas the biker only has the burden of not getting himself killed. If motorists are not willing to drive in a way that takes into account reckless biker behavior, they should walk, bike, or take the bus.

Daniel4

That would make sense. But motorists who text and already think they are paying attention won't think it would be of help.

This is easier.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...r-for-him.html

no motor?

When people do notice me in my bright clothing, and flashing lights on both my helmet and handlebars I get this look that makes me think they're wondering how they missed me before without being annoyed or offended. And that's the effect 'I'm looking for.

Abe_Froman

I really like that....

PatrickGSR94

I suppose I was too literal. What you seem to be describing is more of a "defensive riding" position, which I absolutely agree with, and practice during every ride. I definitely don't rely on motorists to do the right thing, which is exactly why I control the lane when the lane is relatively narrow, and never ride in the door zone. And I try to recognize and pay special attention to places where motorists might not see me right away, like in a parking lot coming around the corner of a building or something. IMHO that's absolutely the best way to ride.

Leebo

OP, got blinkies front and back 24/7? I find it helps, somewhat with the distracted ones. I try to maintain cool, only works sometimes. I can forgive the misjudge or errant mistake. The blatant moves with disregard for my life are harder. Sometimes I smile and wave, other times I ignore. I once caught up to a woman and said" Jesus loves you, I will pray for your soul" really disarmed the encounter. She knew she was in the wrong, did not reply and I just left it at that.

Primal Pete

I definitely agree with this sentiment. It reminds me of the mantra repeated to lots of motorcycle riders... "It's not you that you need to worry about, but everyone else on the road."

It's sort of empowering to assume responsibility (as much as possible) for your own well-being when riding. I almost count on other people to be unpredictable.

esther-L

If the bad driver is driving a commercial vehicle, I sometimes contact the company about it.
I haven't done it yet, but 2 of the local towns have 'report an aggressive driver' things where the driver will get a letter from the police department. I might report a driver sometime, just to have it on record (like that ex-doctor in California who got jail time for harming cyclists because there was a record showing it wasn't the first time he pulled that trick).

When I am near an intersection, I am riding in the left tire track of my lane to increase my visibility. Being female, I do scream like a girl when I am scared for my life. I've gone thru the workday with a rather sore throat a few times.

jfowler85

Almost didn't recognize you with the new pic.

jfowler85

No, I don't run lights during daylight hours. I believe that in both incidences each driver knew I was coming but chose to go anyways whether out of pure impatience, inexperience, or misjudgment. I agree with you, what really punches me in the nuts is blatant disregard...that's always bothered me. Unfortunately for me, part of my job involves telling no to and arguing my decision with people who are much further up the food chain and much more highly paid than myself, so adopting a more pacifistic point of view about things of this nature is not as easy as it could be given that it's part of my regular life.


I laughed at the veiled political comment above regarding concealed carry. Where I live one of age can carry legally without a permit or so much as even a class, yet I don't tread in fear that someone will pull a gun. That's just silly.

Abe_Froman

Wait...I hope you're joking....you don't even have to have a permit anymore?

If that law was enacted here, I'd move in a heartbeat. I'd not be willing to my daughter, wife, or myself get shot because one of us says something to set off a lunatic with a gun.

jfowler85

Nope, completely serious. The thing is, those who want to carry guns in a nefarious manner are already carrying ...law breakers, intuitively, don't follow laws. Amusingly, back when this state passed permitted concealed carry about 15 years ago, many made the same argument you're implicating; in reality what happened - and what will happen again - was people got their permits and carried for a week or so until the novelty wore off. I'm not sure if you've ever packed heat before (that's rhetorical) but it's actually an expensive hassle.


As a cyclist loose dogs scare me an order of magnitude more than guns, but that's just me I suppose. I feel sorry for those who live in and make decisions based on fear.

Abe_Froman

I actually have never had dog trouble. And really I don't make decions based on fear. I suppose it would come down to a matter of values I want instilled in my daughter. I don't want her growing up in a place where the majority of people she knows think it is ok to have a tool expressly designed to kill human beings in their pocket.

no motor?

The classes and requirements for the paranoid and insecure to carry a gun around here isn't very effective from what I hear and now we've got more to worry about from them.

njjoe

I think some women have a blind spot for people on bikes. The last three times I almost got run over was from women drivers.

Jim from Boston

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfowler85

…in the yearsI 've been cyclocommuting I have had maybe 1 honest close call and that was half my fault. The past two days back on the bike have yielded for me:

Yesterday a SUV-wielding suburbanite cut me off while I had the clear right-of-way…We caught up at the next stop light, of course, and she had her window down so I engaged with intent to keep my cool. I asked her what in the world she was doing and she immediately proceeds to blame me for being on the road with cars...at that point I unwisely lost my cool and attempted to rip her a new a**hole. She was taken aback by my language - literally a sailor's dirty mouth permy time in the Navy. I rode off feeling like an a** hole myself but shrugged itoff. Hopefully she doesn't take it out on the next cyclist.

This morning while commuting in I once again had the clear and obvious right of way going through an intersection with a full green…thankfully impact did not occur, she smashed her brake pedal at the last freakin second…She was terrified and the passenger was apologetic, I kept my cool and explained that she did not have the right-of-way and pleaded with her to be more careful in the future.She asked if I was hurt and I said no we're all good let's move along.

I don't really have a point to make that hasn't been said and more aptly andconcisely by others. I felt much better leaving today's near-hit than yesterday; the two encounters happened so closely together that I can't help but juxtapose the two in memory and acutely recognize the disparity in my post-incident attitude. Today I did the right thing and utilized a teaching moment with a young driver which may impact her driving habits (probably not,but we can hope). The other idiot, conversely, may just hate cyclists that muchmore now which is disservice to other cyclists. Or maybe none of it matters at all and everyone is just going to continue to drive as if their time is obviously more important than the lives and limbs of others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wphamilton

Losing your cool might be cathartic but I don't believe that it ever ultimately leads to anything but acrimony and regrets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsJustMe

I just don'teven give a damn about after the moment has passed anymore. I feel about as motivated to yell at a stupid motorist as I would a rock that fell off a cliff and almost hit me. Getting upset at the rock is probably more productive. I just ride on. Maybe I'll get to post some video of the idiot's antics.

I recently replied on the Regional Discussion Metro Boston thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim fromBoston

…How to get the message out? I find threads about what to say to a driver futile, since these are brief, often emotion laden encounters, and often the cyclist makes a bad impression.

I have in the past posted about giving “bicyclist curses,” and “bicyclist blessings”;about 5 blessings a day, and about 3 curses a week. See also the sign below, on my commute through Brookline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

…I have those exact thoughts whenever I am passed, even when not too close by motorist who does not slow down or move over slightly, just as an indication that they notice me. I always think those self-absorbed cagers are only restrained by the thought of scratching their cars, or the hassle of filing police reports.

My only satisfactory retribution is to give them my previously-described Bicyclist Curse. (I repeatedly jab my pointed right index finger in their direction, while shouting an accusatory, ”You, you, you…”). The possibility of metaphysical retribution is more satisfying than the middle finger.

I do also bestow Bicyclist Blessings on drivers who show even a modicum of respect, with a wave of the hand. ….

Finally, guys, I will admit to the following quote about recruiting fellow cyclists to our commuter caravans:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

Frankly, I have posted that I would not be inclined to encourage, unless by example (nor discourage) someone to cycle-commute, but if they so chose, I would freely and gladly give any advice...

Public exhortations to cycle-commute, or utility cycle are well and good with no individual responsibility for bad outcomes, but I would not want the recriminations of a personal endorsement if something bad happened. Also, with regards to “recreational cycling,” actual organizing, promoting, or similar, may entail IMO a liability beyond a personal guilt trip if something goes wrong….

FWW, I’m not advocatin’ against, just sayin’

wphamilton

Something bad can happen either way. By your advocacy or non-advocacy you are as much responsible for their auto accidenta as you are for their bicycle accidents. Which would be not at all.

Daniel4

We have posted many times the fatalities if motorists, pedestrians and cyclists. Regardless of how you wish to interpret which is the most dangerous, reduction of motor vehicles reduces fatalities of all. So keeping people in their cars or promoting more motor vehicle usage isn't going to do any favours for anybody.

jfowler85

Your personifying an inanimate object - (most) guns are designed to discharge centerfire cartridge rounds. What you choose to fire that cartridge round at and with what intent is up to the user, not the gun. This should be intuitive. Also, your premise is incorrect; some guns are designed for sport target matches, some for recreation, some for hunting, some for large volume discharge using small and low velocity rounds, etc, etc.

As far as the users, some use firearms for sport, some are collectors, some are tactical gear buffs, and out of those who do carry for defense some load with rounds that are designed to incapacitate vs kill. Additionally not all who carry choose to actually use the firearm...me for example: found a stranger on my rental property, at night, while in college yet instead of brandishing the .45 I kept inside I engaged the stranger with conversation and resolved the rather scary situation without using any of my firearms. I also held back firing my A4 in Iraq on an occasion when we were engaged from a distance, despite most of the Marines around me returning fire, because I could not obtain 100% positive identification from my vantage point. Yet folks like yourself choose to live in some irrational fear that a change in CCW law, in an already very conservative state where open carry has always been legal, that suddenly their life is in danger. Interesting but as stated irrational.

Do yourself and your daughter a favor and don't use her as an excuse to make life decisions based on your own personal agenda. Just call it for what it is, you're afraid of guns and would rather move out of this state than live here with our gun laws. Super. I'd even help you pack your bags, free of charge.

Jim from Boston

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

Frankly, I have posted that I would not be inclined to encourage, unless by example (nor discourage) someone to cycle-commute, but if they so chose, I would freely and gladly give any advice...

Public exhortations to cycle-commute, or utility cycle are well and good withno individual responsibility for bad outcomes, but I would not want the recriminations of a personal endorsement if something bad happened...

FWIW, I’m not advocatin’ against, just sayin’

Quote:

Originally Posted by wphamilton

Something bad can happen either way. By your advocacy or non-advocacy you are as much responsible for their auto accidents as you are for their bicycle accidents. Which would be not at all.

Say what? So are you implying that I am responsible for an acquaintance’s auto accident if I don’t advocate cycle commuting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel4

We have posted many times the fatalities if motorists, pedestrians and cyclists.Regardless of how you wish to interpret which is the most dangerous, reductionof motor vehicles reduces fatalities of all. So keeping people in their cars or promoting more motor vehicle usage isn't going to do any favours for anybody.

So are you saying I’m responsible for someone’s cycling accident if I don’t exhort drivers’ to abandon their cars and cycle commute?

Thanks for these replies because they are the only ones I have received from the few times I have posted those comments.
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

…what I have gotten directly from BF [include]
• the opportunity to post and literally "journal" my thoughts and activities about cycling and lifestyle (even if nobody else reads them), but which I wouldn't write down otherwise.

As noted in my post, if I have any influence, it is more by reputation than statements. I just don’t urge someone to start cycle commuting from scratch, with no pre-disposition. A couple years ago I attended a large, national professional continuing education meeting, and the slogan was a quote appearing under the classical painting, The School of Athens (Plato’s Academy) by Raphael: “When the Student is ready, the Teacher will appear.” and I would gladly be a Teacher to those who are ready.

In a somewhat similar vein, I recall reading that well-known urban commuter subscriber @joeybike wrote that he has given up cycle touring because it’s so crazy out there. So one has to assess for themselves the risks and benefits of cycle commuting. As for myself, even after being seriously injured by a car, I still ride, with more experience and enthusiasm than ever.