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Carbon wheels: thinking Boyd, hub questions, other suggestions?

Old 11-22-16, 06:28 PM
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Carbon wheels: thinking Boyd, hub questions, other suggestions?

I'm looking for a 40-60mm depth, wide internal rim width, tubeless-compatible rim brake carbon wheel set for around $2k. It appears that Boyd wheels are the best bang-for-the-buck out there and are what I'm planning on purchasing. I am, however, open to other suggestions.

Re: Boyd wheels, can someone explain to me the difference between Boyd's Prime hubs and White Industries T11 hubs? Are the T11s better? If so, what makes them better?

FYI, these wheels would be strictly for recreational use. I don't race, don't intend to race, but I do like spirited riding on group rides. Thanks in advance for educating me.
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Old 11-22-16, 06:51 PM
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I love my Boyd 44s with their hubs, but I have no experience with White Industry hubs, though I've read they are quality pieces.
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Old 11-22-16, 07:21 PM
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For whatever it's worth, Boyd is offering a free upgrade to the White hubs for Black Friday. If you're going to pull the trigger, now is the time: Black Friday 2016
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Old 11-22-16, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RNAV View Post
I'm looking for a 40-60mm depth, wide internal rim width, tubeless-compatible rim brake carbon wheel set for around $2k. It appears that Boyd wheels are the best bang-for-the-buck out there and are what I'm planning on purchasing. I am, however, open to other suggestions.

Re: Boyd wheels, can someone explain to me the difference between Boyd's Prime hubs and White Industries T11 hubs? Are the T11s better? If so, what makes them better?

FYI, these wheels would be strictly for recreational use. I don't race, don't intend to race, but I do like spirited riding on group rides. Thanks in advance for educating me.
I recently purchased Boyd's 44mm disc brake carbon clinchers for my road bike. I emailed Boyd Johnson a very similar question but I was asking about Boyd's new Quest Hubs for disc brake wheels. In his response, he calls out the benefits of the White Industries Hubs that I think still apply to you.

"Both hubs are really nice hubs. It's not like we wanted to have a stock hub that feels awful and force people to upgrade. Both hubs are right at the same weight, with the Quest set being about 5 grams or so lighter. The biggest benefit of the White Industries is going to be the Titanium freehub body, steel axle, and pre-load for the bearings. It is also a made in USA hub set.

Both hubs have super quick engagement, although the White Industries is at 7.5 degrees whereas the Quest is at 5.6 degrees, so the Quest actually engages slightly quicker. Both have axle configurations for any axle size and very easy service."

My Altamont's had the Prime Hubs, and they were outstanding.
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Old 11-22-16, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ellemenohpee View Post
For whatever it's worth, Boyd is offering a free upgrade to the White hubs for Black Friday. If you're going to pull the trigger, now is the time: Black Friday 2016
I am happy with my new wheels, but man, that would have been SWEET to get in on this Black Friday deal...aaahh!
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Old 11-23-16, 06:51 AM
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@Defyme:


Thanks for sharing that info.


@ellemenohpee
Yeah, unfortunately I won't have funds available in time to take advantage of this sale. Which is partly why I'm asking the question. Even referencing Defyme's post above, I don't yet see why the T11s are worth an additional $350.
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Old 11-23-16, 07:30 AM
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Keep in mind, there are some good deals ordering from European retailers. Zipps and Campys would be in your price range.

Zipp 303 Firecrest Carbon Clincher Wheelset 77 / 177 2016

Campagnolo Bora One 50 Clincher Wheelset
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Old 11-23-16, 08:10 AM
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FLOs seem to be priced really competitively. Does anyone have personal experience they can share on their carbon offerings?
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Old 11-23-16, 08:26 AM
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Are the Zipp's tubeless compatible?
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Old 11-23-16, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by RNAV View Post
Are the Zipp's tubeless compatible?
I've been wondering the same thing about their carbon clinchers. Looks like the answer is 'no,' at least for the firecrest line.

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...-tubeless.html

I'd expect the next revision to this line to be tubeless-compatible, though that's pure speculation.
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Old 11-23-16, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ellemenohpee View Post
For whatever it's worth, Boyd is offering a free upgrade to the White hubs for Black Friday. If you're going to pull the trigger, now is the time: Black Friday 2016


I like these Qs and As.


If I already bought wheels with White Industries can I have my $350 refunded?
Unfortunately, we just can not do that. Our costs on those sales were much higher, to the point where we can't go back and retroactively refund for previous sales. This sale is a one day only sale.


If I bought wheels from you before, can I send them in to get the free hubs?
Believe it or not, this is a questions we get a lot, and please do keep in mind that the investment in hubs was quite a bit for us. We are selling a lot of wheels on Black Friday, but purely giving away something we paid a lot of money for just does not make good business sense!! However, we do have a program where if you want to send in your old wheels you can buy and have the White Industries hubs installed.
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Old 11-23-16, 09:34 AM
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The next version of ENVEs are (at least for the 3.4 SES) going to be tubeless compatible, according to several sources. I'm not sure about Zipp. Boyd and Knights are good values and that hub upgrade by Boyd is a good deal. I have heard only good things about the WI T11 hubs. I;d absolutely prefer those over Boyd hubs. Personally, I am still leery of rim-brake carbon rims outside of Zipp, Enve, and maybe Easton. I use NOX but it is a disc wheelset. I'm gearing up to build or buy a wheelset for my new frame and am waiting at least through this week, in case there are some great deal to be had on a wheelset or on a DA groupset.
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Old 11-23-16, 06:29 PM
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Have had my set of boyd 44 with Ti hubs for about a month now, with 600ish miles on them. no complaints at all. Id recommend them no problem, they also have a black friday sale going on where you get free upgrade to WI hubs.


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Old 11-23-16, 09:04 PM
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I love my Reynolds Assaults: tubeless, wide rim, deep enough for aero yet could be everyday ride, better braking with the blue pads than most.
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Old 11-23-16, 10:26 PM
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I have the Boyd 60s and have put about 1200 miles on them in six months. I like them very much. Very good build quality and the bike really starts to float when you get above the 20mph+. Nice wide rims as well that run very smooth with 25mm tires. I have this on my Specialized Roubaix SL4 and they are an excellent pairing when it comes to delivering a smooth ride. Their tubeless system is also very well designed.

To your question re: hubs, Boyd's hubs have a very good reputation, but I couldn't tell you first hand. I opted to go with a PowerTap hub. If you are not riding with power, but have been considering it, Boyd offers this as a nice option for $500. Just install the wheel, pair it to your Garmin and you're good to go.

For reference, I also ride Zipp 303s on a Trek Emonda and also own a pair Reynolds Assault SLGs. All good wheels, but I can say that the Boyd's are every bit as good.

Here are the Boyd 60s:

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Old 11-24-16, 10:34 AM
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look at flo's and psimet
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Old 11-25-16, 08:07 AM
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I have 18 months on my Boyd carbon 44s, tubular, Campy hub. I will echo the other comments as these are really nice wheels, and the Boyd hubs are also very nice. I can't point to any shortcomings of them, but perhaps the differences may be in long term durability of White, as with Chris King stuff. If you are looking for very rapid engagement, look at Industry 9.
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Old 11-29-16, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dougphoto View Post
look at flo's and psimet
Thanks...starting to feel like a ghost around here.
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Old 11-29-16, 10:29 AM
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I usually used wide rims (19mm-20mm internal) but for this new build, I needed something slightly narrower (16-17 internal) so I really could not go for most of the newer options. I also cannot afford carbon due to recent developments so I'm likely going with DT 440 rims, WI T11/CK R45s, and whatever spokes in black...either double butted DTs or CX Ray/Sprint combo. I am still undecided on the hubs.

Maybe what I will do in the future is build or buy a set of deeper carbon and put them on the disc Tarmac. I think 40-45 is the range for me.
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Old 11-29-16, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RNAV View Post
I'm looking for a 40-60mm depth, wide internal rim width, tubeless-compatible rim brake carbon wheel set for around $2k. It appears that Boyd wheels are the best bang-for-the-buck out there and are what I'm planning on purchasing. I am, however, open to other suggestions.

Re: Boyd wheels, can someone explain to me the difference between Boyd's Prime hubs and White Industries T11 hubs? Are the T11s better? If so, what makes them better?

FYI, these wheels would be strictly for recreational use. I don't race, don't intend to race, but I do like spirited riding on group rides. Thanks in advance for educating me.
Other Suggestion...


HED JET6+


Outstanding wheels for about half of your budget.
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Old 11-29-16, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Thanks...starting to feel like a ghost around here.
I couldn't be happier with my PSImet wheel set.
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Old 11-29-16, 11:49 AM
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Thanks everyone for the input and suggestions.

@Psimet2001:
I know in the past you've maintained a stance against road tubeless, and I didn't see any carbon tubeless offerings on your site. Has your stance changed, and do you offer tubeless-compatible carbon wheels?

@69chevy:
Those looks like great all-rounders; unfortunately they're not tubeless compatible. The rim is, but apparently there's no way to secure a tubeless valve without crushing the carbon fairing. At least, that's what my limited google-fu turned up.
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Old 11-29-16, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RNAV View Post

@69chevy:
Those looks like great all-rounders; unfortunately they're not tubeless compatible. The rim is, but apparently there's no way to secure a tubeless valve without crushing the carbon fairing. At least, that's what my limited google-fu turned up.
For what it's worth, I planned to run them tubeless when I bought them. I was going to install an alloy sleeve over the valve stem like a friend did, so I could wrench the valve in tight.


Since I had a new set of GP4000II tires I didn't want to waste, I decided to wait and try the tubeless once I wore out the newish Continentals.


A couple thousand miles later, with no pinch flats, I'm convinced the wider rim design largely reduces the pinch flats I would get occasionally with my narrower wheels.


I'm now ordering another set of the GP tires, since I didn't get a flat with the HED wheels all year.


EDIT: I'm 195# and experimented with pressures as low as 75#, which is why I was so surprised about not flatting with tubes.
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Old 11-29-16, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RNAV View Post
Thanks everyone for the input and suggestions.

@Psimet2001:
I know in the past you've maintained a stance against road tubeless, and I didn't see any carbon tubeless offerings on your site. Has your stance changed, and do you offer tubeless-compatible carbon wheels?
Just about every single clincher offering nowadays is tubeless. It's like disc is with cross - getting shoved down everyone's throat regardless of whether they want it or not. I've actually been getting pushback - I support a lot of women's teams and riders/racers. Their chief complaint across the board is that tubeless has made it impossible for them to service on the road. They don't want to mess with sealant and run it tubeless, but even if they do when they run into trouble on the road and have to put a tube in it they complain. So I frequently still supply a lot of models with and without tubeless beds.

That all said just about any modern rim can be run tubeless even without a UST style bed.

As for my site- - I am a custom wheel builder not a site developer. 99% of what we do is still individual, quote based and for specific needs. If you ever don't see something....ask. I assure you I have it.
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Old 11-29-16, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 69chevy View Post
For what it's worth, I planned to run them tubeless when I bought them. I was going to install an alloy sleeve over the valve stem like a friend did, so I could wrench the valve in tight.


Since I had a new set of GP4000II tires I didn't want to waste, I decided to wait and try the tubeless once I wore out the newish Continentals.


A couple thousand miles later, with no pinch flats, I'm convinced the wider rim design largely reduces the pinch flats I would get occasionally with my narrower wheels.


I'm now ordering another set of the GP tires, since I didn't get a flat with the HED wheels all year.


EDIT: I'm 195# and experimented with pressures as low as 75#, which is why I was so surprised about not flatting with tubes.
Flats....it's a sordid affair. There are just so many variables that one is left having to make generalizations in order to get anything done....with that - here are some of mine:

1. Flats for the vast majority of riders and racers I interact with are something that really seldom occurs. Personally I can't tell you the last time I had a flat while road riding but I am sure it was at least 3-4 years ago.

2. rim widths - allowing us to run wider tires at lower pressures absolutely helps reduce the number of flats one will experience.

3. Tires - they aren't crap anymore. They actually work. If in good shape and inflated correctly and selected for the rider and application correctly then yeah...bye bye flats.

4. Some riders will have flats. Always. Change the tires, rims, pressures, routes, application, use, terrain, etc....and some will still always end up with flats. Some say user error. Some blame some other factor. In reality some people just ride over stuff they shouldn't, lard butt their way over obstacles, and are generally not very aware of what they do to their bike. That's life.

5. Some locations of the country make riding road tires in a tubeless setup the preferred way to go. These areas (like areas with goathead thorns) also happen to be areas that have a lot of interesting things called mountains and enjoy a lot of that style of riding as well. That product went tubeless a while ago so carrying it to road is the only thing that makes sense to these riders.

6. Having spent a helluva lot of time riding all sorts of setups I have come to the following conclusions: tubulars are tubulars. Tubes are tubes. Tubeless is tubeless. The vast majority of riders (90%) will not be able to tell the difference if they aren't told before they ride it. The amount of money I charge a customer to set up their tubeless system far outweighs the cost of tubes for nearly the life of the same setup (for riders in my area). Latex tubes give a supple ride. Tires made to be tubeless do not give a supple ride. They are hard and stiff....huhuuhuhuhuhuhuhuh.

I am currently riding a disc cyclocross setup on mostly road conditions with high end gravel tires. Front wheel is latex tube. Rear is tubeless. Rear, since the switch, has felt dead.

BTW - as many already know the pressure you run your personal setup at will far outstrip the differences in any of these systems.

Nothing like taking a hardened racer and telling them to run at 85psi on their high performance tubulars instead of the 150 they have been riding for the last 20 years and then seeing their face after the race after they thank me for changing their life.
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