AdkMtnMonster

So weird that FOUR bike shops were all filled with jerks and idiots, and the brand new guy (who already, in his very first post, knew to use the LBS abbreviation) is such a great guy. It couldn’t possibly be the other way around! He told us he doesn’t like confrontations.

I hope he ends up finding a great bike for his kid and they have a ton of fun riding together.

Cheers!

indyfabz

Who also misstated MA law regarding the need for reflectors.

sledgefisher

And you on the other hand sound so welcoming to a new member. What do you know about the guys area? I bet every LBS you frequent everyone bends over backwards to give you the service you so rightly deserve.

And I for one at least do genuinely hope that he and his son have great times on their bikes together.

sledgefisher

Oh no perhaps he doesn't deserve to be a member of BF for being so misinformed about such a fundamental aspect of cycling!
Get over it buddy.

Juan Foote

Straight up, for that age group I would have gone to the BBS (or better yet, Goodwill, yard sale, etc.) and picked something cheap. Taken it home and made sure it was assembled correctly and let (child) ride until they outgrow and rinse/repeat. I cannot see the value in getting a "good" bike for children growing like weeds. Even IN a case like that it makes perfect sense to consider a bicycle that is oversized and is a common way to get more value out of a bike you know the kid won't be able to ride soon. As a side note to that, I think we have to consider how "fit" is a term that adults made into a subject of import for riding long distances. It makes mostly ZERO sense to consider for a kid spinning back and forth from the end of the driveway.

To me, OP, you sound a lot like one of those people who just want to throw money at someone else to do what you could have done for yourself such that you can place blame. YOU bought the bike and didn't notice the crack. TBH it's hard to even imagine a situation where that could happen and the bike not show damage from the crash, lest it was that way from day one. Professionals don't work free either....

dedhed

I'm more or less in agreement unless you know you have a number of children coming along (or cousins) that a decent bike can rotate through for years to come.

Flip Flop Rider

so so essentially we (AGAIN) are debating the merits of the LBS!!! I'll check back next week when this thread reaches 100 posts!

Cyclist0108

What did the 3rd lbs do wrong?

mstateglfr 

Learn to build a frame yourself. You can then handle all maintenance issues too.
That will keep you from having to deal with all the people you feel are incompetent as you have only yourself to blame if the bike doesn't work..

Building a modern frame isn't tough- its just attaching things with threaded bolts for 95% of the job.

Tacoenthusiast

Haha for sure!

If you have conversations with 4 different people and there's a jerk in all 4, it's likely the jerk is the OP :-)

billridesbikes

Guess we know why the ‘high quality’ FB market place bicycle was so cheap. Owner probably crashed it, or otherwise abused it, damaging the head tube and then decided to unload it.

caveat emptor, but I would think there would still be an implied warranty of merchantability even if it was a private sale,.

General Geoff

Warranty of merchantability does not apply to private sales. It only applies to sales from a merchant by law: https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-314

CliffordK

Or, a KID rode it. The parent may or may not have known.
Each kid will be a little different. I got my nephew a 24" road bike and a 650c road bike. The kid's geometry is extremely flexible.

I wish I had just gotten him the 650c as I'm sure it could have been adjusted to fit, and skipped the 24" phase. He had definitely outgrown the 24" bike by age 10 or so.

Thomas15

When I take over ownership of a bike I intend to keep, the first thing I do s remove the reflectors. The second thing is go over the entire bike.

Just this week I did a group ride where one of the riders was a 70+ year old female. After about 10 miles she got a flat tire of which she proceeded to fix with ease and no fumbling. Not to sound like a jerk but if a 70 year old lady can fix a flat on the road anyone should be able to do the same.

Last year I returned to cycling after 25 years off the bike. One of the first things I did was get a more modern edition of a bicycle repair manual. I really don't know why anyone old enough to buy a bike would not be capable of their own repairs and system checks. It's a bicycle not a fusion reactor. Think of it this way you will spend a few hours traveling to and from a store and have a loss of bike for days/weeks and spend money when the required skills are easy to acquire on your own.

OK so maybe I'm a jerk I don't care and I'm not defending any bike shop but what is the actual purpose of posting this sad story on a public internet chit chat forum? Are we trying to claim victimhood status or simply inform the reader that we are proud to have no mechanical skills what so ever? When I was 11 years old I was fixing my bikes unsupervised, buying parts with my paper route money. What was I some kind of prodigy?

70sSanO

I imagine having an actual pic of the crack would enhance this thread as it moves toward 100 posts.

Then we could argue the merits of whether it should have be caught sooner.

John

indyfabz

Except that he used his incorrect “knowledge” to criticize the LBS. How can someone be so certain about something and yet be so wrong? MA law is straight forward on the matter. Took me a few minutes to look it up and get it correct. One reason this entire thread has my Spidey senses tingling.

Get it, buddy?

shelbyfv

OP, since you've had time to reflect on your post and process some feedback, welcome or not, you may want to be done with this thread. You can ask a mod to lock it or maybe even delete it altogether.

veganbikes

I don't own a shop, I have worked at shops for years that is true but don't own. How exactly do you know they just polished the bike and handed it back? They did miss a crack but stuff like that is really easy to miss unless it makes an obvious appearance, Would love to see pictures of it.

The reflector was not missed it was not something anyone is going to care about unless someone brings it up. Many people remove reflectors and I frequently get asked to remove them by parents and adults who buy bicycles. If you really wanted one you would have asked for one and they would have been able to put it on.

In terms of fit I would love to hear from that other shop in what happened. If they truly put your kid on the wrong size they should not have done that but if a parent insists and continues insisting their isn't much you can do.

It sounds like if this is true then yes you had some bad luck

HerrKaLeun

My understanding is the LBS told him the missing reflector is a safety issue.

Many judgmental people here bickering on a new member. No wonder OP is silent. There is a good chance the LBS are sucky and/or the OP misunderstood or had bad communication. No reason to be on the LBS side without seeing more detail.

Support your LBS, no matter what.

indyfabz

Uncorrect. From the OP:

“Except it had no rear reflector, which is a legal requirement in this state. They missed that.”

MrPeabody

As I keep saying, the reflector was a side issue. It was actually pointed out to me by the last LBS I went to (the same guy who spotted the crack in about 30 seconds), who said something about it being state law for kids' bikes as a safety issue. Why would I even care to make that up?

I don't know if he's right, and it doesn't matter to me. I wanted one on there anyway for safety. Should I have caught that myself? Absolutely. I guess it doesn't matter that I paid for a "safety check".

Ross520

Learning how to wrench is something that would be very prudent for you and your son. Not only will you not have to drag your bike to a shop and wait a week (and pay!) for a tune-up that could be performed at home in 15 minutes, but you can turn it into a bonding opportunity with your son as well.

I can't imagine having to deal with LBS nonsense, especially amid covid.

Park tools has a bunch of very informative articles and videos covering maintenance and repair on their website. If you can read and follow directions, you can work on a bike.

Russ Roth

Not a shop owner though being a tech was my job for 15 years so I've had plenty of experience with these types of things. You can decide if I'm biased.
I'm assuming this is equivalent to a full tune, in which case it means making sure wheels are true, hubs proper, brakes and gears adjusted, tires inflated and aren't worn or cracked, a proper wipe down and the chain lubed. Although to me that price is high its also about normal here in LI as well. When doing these repairs over the years I caught a number of cracked frames, probably would have caught this one as well as I bounce the bike on the back wheel and both wheels to see if there's a weird rattle. But I have my own weird way of doing things and not everyone does this. If it was a hairline crack it could have easily been overlooked and that isn't something to go after a shop over.
As to a reflector, also never added one to a bike unless asked, just one of those things practically no one cares about. I'd bet the bike may have even been missing one or two on the pedals and still is. Right now my kids (5,7 and 9) have a number of bikes; I know the 7yo recently smashed his front reflector on a tree, I won't be replacing it, they've lost pedal reflectors on several of their bikes and those will stay lost. between the 3 kids they have 11 bikes; 3 of those can't have reflectors for competition reasons, 2 could but who puts reflectors on road racing bikes, and the other 6 I really don't know what reflectors are missing and it just isn't worth worrying about. During the day reflectors really don't do much and in the evening I'll put lights on them so they can actually be seen. Its an easy thing to get uptight over but honestly I'm now picking up hours at a shop to help them through the current rush which makes them the 5th shop I've worked at and putting reflectors on repairs has never been a thing.

Yes-ish, you've got people in this thread who can't see the value of putting kids on new bikes; we'd deal with people who had 8yo kids on 12" bikes before finally deciding maybe the bike is too small and they need something better and practically every parent wants the bike to last the optimal amount of years. Who want's to spend 300+ every year for 5 years as the kid zooms through growth spurts other then nuts like me? Usually almost no one who walks through the door of a shop and attempting to fit a kid to optimal fit just means upset parents when it isn't the optimal fit. Shop workers are trained by the customers to squeeze little Suzie and Johnny onto the biggest bike possible for the most years possible. Personally I think its stupid but that's me. These same shop owners will sell you a Trek or Giant that's a poor factory design (poor crank length, terrible shifters, crappy freewheel systems, hard to squeeze brakes) cause that's what the companies offer them to sell. You have to have some understanding of what you want and what's important since the shop is basing a lot of your needs on what is typical and available. At 9-10 a normal sized kid can be moving off a 24" bike the but idiot bike companies have done away with 26" bikes for 27.5 and 29" so while a 13" frame with 26" wheels and no suspension worked awesome in the past for a going on 10yo who had clearly outgrown his 24" and offered a miniscule toptube clearance. A new 13" bike with 27.5" and a new longer travel fork won't offer any clearance at all but may still be the only option available. Sucks but true.

While I would never go back to a shop that doesn't treat a kid as a real customer it does sound like the 3rd shop tried to work with you and were apologetic, from what you say I'd have no problem working with them.

What the law says really only matters for new bikes in which case its federal standards that treat every single bike made as a toy. Yes, even a 10k trek comes from the factory with cheap reflectors and the bike has to be sold with them as it could be used by a kid as a toy. NYS has similar laws and I've never met anyone who ever cared about the fact, unless asked no shop will install a reflector unless asked for. Most shops also don't have a stock of reflectors, they'll have a few but since they only show up on new bikes which they have to be installed on the only extras generated come from higher end bikes that the owners ask to have them removed from. A shop attempting to replace every busted reflector would run out in record time and customers wouldn't want to find replacements turning up in their bill.

MrPeabody

Thanks to all who have given constructive advice. I definitely appreciate it.

I admit I missed the head tube crack and that's my bad. I also admit that I'm not the professional. But having worked with aluminum trusses that hold lighting and audio rigging, I know aluminum is prone to all sorts of stress fractures and cracks. I don't expect a bike frame to be x-rayed as our trusses have to be on occasion, but splits and cracks can be a big compromise in structural integrity. I guess that's why I'm surprised to hear that it's "not a thing" in an inspection of a used aluminum bike. I'd rather know about it than not, even if it costs me. But now I know.

As I mentioned in the OP, the owner of the shop that did the inspection was "extremely apologetic and did a great job making things right. Even got a new frame and basically put a "new" bike together for my son. And then charged me an extra $100 for the labor." I only went in looking for a refund on the inspection charge. I'd eat the cost of the bike if it was unusable. This new frame was more than I expected. The extra labor charge came at the end as a surprise, but I'm not sure if that's usual or not in this type of situation. I didn't argue.

So yes, he did go beyond what was necessary, and I appreciated that. He was the only one who at least made an effort to do the right thing. Would I go back there to buy the new bike I'm looking for for me? I'm not sure. I wouldn't trust his techs to do the setup. I'd do it myself. I built my own 10-speed when I was 13, decades ago. I can certainly set up my own bike. For my son, I wanted a PROFESSIONAL to inspect it, especially if it's used. Not too hard to figure out why.

I can't post the photos because if that LBS is on here, I'd be calling them out publicly. That's not necessary nor do I want to publicly shame them. We came to a successful arrangement.

In any case, I just wanted to know some alternatives for finding my own bike outside of these places I experienced. But it seems some people here believe that every LBS is always right, or that I owe them my money no matter what. No, NOT ALL LBSs ARE BAD -- there are some great ones with knowledgeable people. I hope to find one someday.

downhillmaster

This.
It sucks he had a bad experience but he created an account and posted on a bike forum just to bash his LBS.
Ofc he is going to get critiqued and as well he should.
Choose any retail industry in the world and you can debate all day long the pros and cons.
Was OP naive enough to believe that LBS were magically exempt from the vagaries of retail and business in general?
If I go out to eat 4x one month and get a few over cooked steaks should I go to a food forum and ask if every restaurant in the country regularly over cooks steaks?