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Vintage Frence hub ID?

Old 03-13-11, 03:59 PM
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rothenfield1
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Vintage French hub ID?

(I tried to edit misspelled title!)
This very cosmetically corroded wheelset came with an 85 Cannondale. I do not think that it is original however because I couldnít find it on any Cídales of that age on the catalog website. Although the rims are ugly and eyelets rusted, I thought I would try to clean them up and was taking apart the hubs to get an idea of their condition when I was surprised to see Ďcagedí bearings. It is the first time Iíve seen caged hub bearings and am at a loss as to how to remove them for servicing. Around the hub sleeve behind the dust cap and rubber seal is stamped Ė 5KF, 6001 BSI, France F. At least that is what it appears to read. Iím assuming they are Mavic hubs.

Does anyone know how to remove the bearings for servicing? They donít just pop out and I afraid to try and pry on them in fear of scratching the cup surface.

P.S. I was going to soak the rims in OA to remove the eyelet rust, what is the best way to clean up the rest of the rims?


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Old 03-13-11, 04:34 PM
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While we are on the subject, maybe someone could tell me what freewheel tool is required for a Regina? The Park FR-1 & 5 tools I have are too big in diameter. There was also a BF member who specialized in freewheel rebuilding. If they are interested, I would like to seek their services. This freewheel feels like it could use a rebuild.
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Old 03-13-11, 04:38 PM
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Hi,
Actually, that's a sealed bearing hub, at the time, as MA2 were kinda the low end brother to MA40's, it's probably a relatively cheap hub, but tough to tell. That cap/seal you took off didn't need to and should not have been taken off. It's actually part of the cartridge bearing. to remove the bearing you would tap (pound) the axel to drive the opposie side bearing out. to protect the threads, you could put a piece of wood between the axel & hammer, or screw the nut back on & hit that. Usually you don't service cartridge bearings, you just replace 'em. Back in the 80's & even the 90's those were rare, usually in something like American classic or Phil wood hubs, now ther almost everywhere. The SKF # is what you would look for to replace them.

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Old 03-13-11, 04:47 PM
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I use Park's FR-4 Freewheel remover on my Regina Synchros.
Had to go to a few bike shops last year before I lucked out and one that still had one in their back room, it was last one they had on their shelves and they were almost reluctant to sell it to me as they were thinking that their shop might need it to service bikes that come in with old Regina FWs. I think it's not readily available/in stock out there. Your LBS might still be able to order it from Park though.

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Old 03-13-11, 05:04 PM
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Thank you both, that is the info I needed. Has anyone tried servicing sealed bearings before. It doesn't appear to be impossible. I'll see if I can find replacements however.
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Old 03-13-11, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rothenfield1 View Post
Thank you both, that is the info I needed. Has anyone tried servicing sealed bearings before. It doesn't appear to be impossible. I'll see if I can find replacements however.
You really can't service sealed cartridge hub bearings - once they run rough you need to replace them. Fortunately they are inexpensive enough. (You may have to use a torch to extract the old ones though).
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Old 03-13-11, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JimPz View Post
Hi,
Actually, that's a sealed bearing hub, at the time, as MA2 were kinda the low end brother to MA40's, it's probably a relatively cheap hub, but tough to tell. That cap/seal you took off didn't need to and should not have been taken off. It's actually part of the cartridge bearing. to remove the bearing you would tap (pound) the axel to drive the opposie side bearing out. to protect the threads, you could put a piece of wood between the axel & hammer, or screw the nut back on & hit that. Usually you don't service cartridge bearings, you just replace 'em. Back in the 80's & even the 90's those were rare, usually in something like American classic or Phil wood hubs, now ther almost everywhere. The SKF # is what you would look for to replace them.

JimPz
Thanks! I would personally elevate you from 'newbie' to senior member for that one helpful response alone; but, of course, I don't have that power, nor do I want it.

I did pop the axle with a rubber mallet and the axle came out. The bearings however are still there. Should I pry them out with a screwdriver? I'm cautious because it seems that you could easily damage the area around the sealed bearing and thereby making the installation of the new one difficult.
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Old 03-14-11, 01:45 AM
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You should be able to get a metal bar down the centre of the hub where the old spindle goes and tap the complete bearing out.
When you refit the new bearings make sure you do not damage them by tapping them in the wrong place for what you are trying to do.
Step one fit one bearing to spindle ( axle ) by using something like a socket that fits just over the spindle and contacts the inside bearing track. Do not hit the outer bearing track for this part of the job it will ruin the bearing.
Tap this into hub but this time you must use a much larger socket so you hit the outer bearing track.
Do the other side by driving the bearing onto the spindle as for the first side this will also push the bearing into the hub at the same time. warm the hub up as well to make it a bit bigger to help the bearing to slide in.

You can get bearing with no seals on them or single or double seals.
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Old 03-14-11, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rothenfield1 View Post
While we are on the subject, maybe someone could tell me what freewheel tool is required for a Regina? The Park FR-1 & 5 tools I have are too big in diameter. There was also a BF member who specialized in freewheel rebuilding. If they are interested, I would like to seek their services. This freewheel feels like it could use a rebuild.
Rothenfield,

I'd be glad to help you out. If you can't find the Regina tool, I could send you mine and then you can return it when you ship the freewheel.

With that said, Regina, Atom, and Mallaird freewheels are a different ballgame from Shimano and Suntour freewheels. Basically all the cogs thread together, one onto the next. It is a rather complicated system which of the few I've tried, there seems to always be at least two cogs which I cannot un-thread from each other, which spoils the "Spa" treatment (i.e., those cogs are not as clean as the others).

But if you want to send it my way, we can work together to get you back up and running. Is the threading English or French?

www.freewheelspa.com
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Old 03-14-11, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Barr313 View Post
You should be able to get a metal bar down the centre of the hub where the old spindle goes and tap the complete bearing out.
When you refit the new bearings make sure you do not damage them by tapping them in the wrong place for what you are trying to do.
Step one fit one bearing to spindle ( axle ) by using something like a socket that fits just over the spindle and contacts the inside bearing track. Do not hit the outer bearing track for this part of the job it will ruin the bearing.
Tap this into hub but this time you must use a much larger socket so you hit the outer bearing track.
Do the other side by driving the bearing onto the spindle as for the first side this will also push the bearing into the hub at the same time. warm the hub up as well to make it a bit bigger to help the bearing to slide in.

You can get bearing with no seals on them or single or double seals.
Good advice IF you really have to replace bad cartridge bearings, but other than saying the wheelset is "corroded", are you certain that the bearings are shot? Many times these can be cleaned and repacked left in place pressed in the hub shells (BTW, though I can't tell or sure from the pic provided it's possible that these are Mavic 501 hubs, some of the smoothest-running hubs ever made).
If you make an archive search you should find miamijim's excellent DIY guide with pictures that show how to service these bearings without removal from the shell...you've already done the first step by removing the rubber seal, thought it looks like you might have mucked it up getting it off. I'd only use double-rubber-sealed bearings to replace (if you have to go that route) and you can use SKFs if you can find them and afford them...but all you need to go shopping is the number: 6001 and 2RS meaning sealed on both sides. If the original bearings can be serviced your challenge is just to flatten that seal so it can be re-installed (maybe can be, maybe not).
I think there's an on-line guide to servicing the 500 series Mavic hubs, you might want to look for that, too since the REAR axles are a bit unusual compared to other sealed bearing hubs...if they are not Mavic then you might only need the drift, sockets and a large vise to do the pressing in and out. It's a little easier to do with unlaced hubs, but I've done it before with a hub laced to a rim, just more fiddling and can't use a vise as the press.
Edit: found the guide on Yellow Jersey's site, the directions pertain to the later 571 cassette hub, but most info can apply to earlier 501, and bottom scan shows exploded diagram of 501, F&R.
https://www.yellowjersey.org/mavic571.html

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Old 03-14-11, 10:06 AM
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I will try to find miamijim's guide on repacking the sealed bearings. My impression from rebuilding free-bearing hubs is that these don't feel that bad. Spinning the axles felt a little gritty with a bit of play if you pulled on it. When I opened it up, the sealed bearing appeared 'dry' with no apparent grease.

I have pm'd you pastorbob.
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Old 03-14-11, 10:53 AM
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here's the miamijim tutorial, scroll down to #11
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...not-to-replace
he's demonstrating on a Specialized hub, but the principals apply to all sealed cartridge bearings...the real trick involved is prying off the outboard seal without ruining it. Jim uses a big utility knife blade, I've had better luck with smaller tools like Xacto knife blade or even scalpel (careful with that) to get an edge loose and then a thin pick to run along the edge and pop it up. It's a little like removing a clincher tire from a rim but in miniature!
Ruined bearings can be a good source for practicing technique as well as harvesting seals to replace ones you cut, crimp or are too hardened to re-use...they have to match the ID and OD to interchange, of course.
BTW, going back to your OP: what you read as BSI might be RS1, meaning rubber seal on one side. If this is correct then there's no seal on the inboard side...you'll know if you decide to press out the old bearings. If the OEM was to use RS1, then I'd get the same since it might increase drag a little to use RS2 and probably used cause the hub shell has a full "shelf" that the inner side is pressed against and might be sufficiently sealed by that.

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Old 03-14-11, 11:26 AM
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Thanks for the complement. Normally, I'd replace the bearings, they are cheap enough & can even be bought online from several bearing companies like vxb.com. Most hubs I've seen, the axles had 'shoulders & driving out the axel, like you did, drove out one bearing, like mwntioned above, they can be tapped out in other ways, While they can be serviced (could be tough unless the seal you popped off can be 'flattened), again I'd replace them. they generally press in easily.


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Old 04-06-11, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rothenfield1 View Post
While we are on the subject, maybe someone could tell me what freewheel tool is required for a Regina? The Park FR-1 & 5 tools I have are too big in diameter. There was also a BF member who specialized in freewheel rebuilding. If they are interested, I would like to seek their services. This freewheel feels like it could use a rebuild.
A couple of weeks ago, rothenfield1 sent the above very rusted Regina CX to me. I'd like to showoff the end result. If you would like to see and read more about the process, CLICK HERE.

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