SRAM Force Road Disc Brake Pad ?'s
05-12-21, 09:27 AM
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
SRAM Force Road Disc Brake Pad ?'s
2021 Specialized Tarmac SL7 Pro.
SRAM Force Disc Brakes.
Brake pads needed replacing. Replacing with SRAM OEM Pads.
At full open I have some rub and my wheel does not want so spin free. is there a way to open the calipers up a little more to accommodate for the thicker pads? Tried loosening the caliper, gripping the brakes to center and then re-tightening. No luck. Have the engagement screw/adjustment on top of brake hood opened all the way out too. Thanks for any advice.
SRAM Force Disc Brakes.
Brake pads needed replacing. Replacing with SRAM OEM Pads.
At full open I have some rub and my wheel does not want so spin free. is there a way to open the calipers up a little more to accommodate for the thicker pads? Tried loosening the caliper, gripping the brakes to center and then re-tightening. No luck. Have the engagement screw/adjustment on top of brake hood opened all the way out too. Thanks for any advice.
05-13-21, 05:59 AM
#5
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Thread Starter
05-25-21, 11:32 AM
#6
Member
SRAM's video instruction on bleed procedure ends with pressing the DOT fluid back and forth and finally adding a bit more pressure at the lever. I have done this procedure a few times, and the brakes work well.
I dont think you have too much fluid.
Force and Red are hard to get right - there's not a lot of tolerance - the pads don't move a lot.
It usually takes me quite a few trys to get the alignment right - undoing the calipers, centering and tightening. I have always been able to get it right in the end. The discs are probably ever so slightly warped. You could try to straighten them with the right tool.
I dont think you have too much fluid.
Force and Red are hard to get right - there's not a lot of tolerance - the pads don't move a lot.
It usually takes me quite a few trys to get the alignment right - undoing the calipers, centering and tightening. I have always been able to get it right in the end. The discs are probably ever so slightly warped. You could try to straighten them with the right tool.
05-25-21, 11:43 AM
#7
Member
2021 Specialized Tarmac SL7 Pro.
SRAM Force Disc Brakes.
Brake pads needed replacing. Replacing with SRAM OEM Pads.
At full open I have some rub and my wheel does not want so spin free. is there a way to open the calipers up a little more to accommodate for the thicker pads? Tried loosening the caliper, gripping the brakes to center and then re-tightening. No luck. Have the engagement screw/adjustment on top of brake hood opened all the way out too. Thanks for any advice.
SRAM Force Disc Brakes.
Brake pads needed replacing. Replacing with SRAM OEM Pads.
At full open I have some rub and my wheel does not want so spin free. is there a way to open the calipers up a little more to accommodate for the thicker pads? Tried loosening the caliper, gripping the brakes to center and then re-tightening. No luck. Have the engagement screw/adjustment on top of brake hood opened all the way out too. Thanks for any advice.
Careful with the SRAM torx bolts - they are super fragile, and the torx interface is shallow, so they're easy to strip.
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05-25-21, 12:31 PM
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This is not the correct answer. It is possible but seeing how the OP's system worked before this is highly unlikely.
Lubricate the pistons w/ DOT fluid and clean them w/ a Q tip. Then push them back in. They will go in. You might have to get them out a little further to really get them clean.
Thanks @Elvo. Tried. Didnt work. Cant back the pistons off far enough. Hmmm?
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05-28-21, 01:45 PM
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Hydraulic brakes self compensate for wear. You have to put the pistons back all the way into the bore.
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05-28-21, 02:02 PM
#10
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Everyone chiming in on here that doesn't actually work with these daily is really just handing you a loaded weapon without educating you on how to safely use it.
SRAM brakes... Well...let me just say I know enough of the engineers that design them that I don't like to publicly talk a lot of smack abut them but let's just say there's lots of opportunities to practice and become a subject matter expert with them.
Because of the design the pistons WILL eventually stick. Did 4 or 5 bikes this week with that problem. I have disagreed with the engineer that designed the lipseal setup. This seals are designed to have a little friction with the piston and flex as well as slide so that there is some back force to help with retraction.
It's a great idea but in the real world it's complete trash. The seals will eventually dry out enough that they essentially weld themselves to the pistons. Usually happens further down in their life. Most road users have the problem towards the end of their first full set of pads if it's taken more than a season or so. When they stick most riders don't even realize it because they end up just losing some throw towards the end of the pad life. They assume they need new pads and swap them. Then get into this situation.
You can put some oil on the pistons (to state the obvious - make sure the pads and rotor are nowhere near that oil) then cycle the pistons in and out a bunch. Saw a hack somewhere that was something along the line of putting a 4mm hex wrench in between the pistons to help keep them from popping too far out. I just do it by eye and sometimes use a half cut bleed block.
I cover a way to do it with their DOT grease in one of my YouTube channel's videos on their systems (yes Anthony couldn't hold the camera still and I apologize). I was confronted after doing that video regarding the grease. Engineer who designed it said, "don't use the grease. It will reduce the retraction." My response was along the lines of, "the brakes just won't work without it." The engineering manager said, "I have a feeling this is one of those 'it was designed to be one way but the mechanic in the field knows how it really works. Both are valid.' situations." He's a great person and an immense asset to SRAM.
End of the day - your pistons are stuck. Push them back. The master cylinder is build to bypass the fluid. No fluid was added to your system. There is a reservoir. Anyone who said you had too much fluid is so wrong it hurts. Instead, now, you don't have enough fluid and probably introduced air into your system and now need a bleed.
If you have to take it to a shop because you don't have the tools to do the bleed please know this: The vast majority of shops have absolutely no skills or ability to work on, troubleshoot, or fix SRAM brakes. They will call it in to service after trying to bleed the system 4-5x without success and SRAM will warranty them and replace them. With the current part shortages that could leave you stranded for a long time. Get them to someone that knows what they're doing.
If you had put a tiny bit of oil on the edge of the pistons and cycled them at the start you'd be done. BTW when they are floating well then be sure to clean off the excess DOT fluid with rubbing alcohol.
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07-07-21, 06:38 AM
#11
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Totally the wrong thing to do.
Everyone chiming in on here that doesn't actually work with these daily is really just handing you a loaded weapon without educating you on how to safely use it.
SRAM brakes... Well...let me just say I know enough of the engineers that design them that I don't like to publicly talk a lot of smack abut them but let's just say there's lots of opportunities to practice and become a subject matter expert with them.
Because of the design the pistons WILL eventually stick. Did 4 or 5 bikes this week with that problem. I have disagreed with the engineer that designed the lipseal setup. This seals are designed to have a little friction with the piston and flex as well as slide so that there is some back force to help with retraction.
It's a great idea but in the real world it's complete trash. The seals will eventually dry out enough that they essentially weld themselves to the pistons. Usually happens further down in their life. Most road users have the problem towards the end of their first full set of pads if it's taken more than a season or so. When they stick most riders don't even realize it because they end up just losing some throw towards the end of the pad life. They assume they need new pads and swap them. Then get into this situation.
You can put some oil on the pistons (to state the obvious - make sure the pads and rotor are nowhere near that oil) then cycle the pistons in and out a bunch. Saw a hack somewhere that was something along the line of putting a 4mm hex wrench in between the pistons to help keep them from popping too far out. I just do it by eye and sometimes use a half cut bleed block.
I cover a way to do it with their DOT grease in one of my YouTube channel's videos on their systems (yes Anthony couldn't hold the camera still and I apologize). I was confronted after doing that video regarding the grease. Engineer who designed it said, "don't use the grease. It will reduce the retraction." My response was along the lines of, "the brakes just won't work without it." The engineering manager said, "I have a feeling this is one of those 'it was designed to be one way but the mechanic in the field knows how it really works. Both are valid.' situations." He's a great person and an immense asset to SRAM.
End of the day - your pistons are stuck. Push them back. The master cylinder is build to bypass the fluid. No fluid was added to your system. There is a reservoir. Anyone who said you had too much fluid is so wrong it hurts. Instead, now, you don't have enough fluid and probably introduced air into your system and now need a bleed.
If you have to take it to a shop because you don't have the tools to do the bleed please know this: The vast majority of shops have absolutely no skills or ability to work on, troubleshoot, or fix SRAM brakes. They will call it in to service after trying to bleed the system 4-5x without success and SRAM will warranty them and replace them. With the current part shortages that could leave you stranded for a long time. Get them to someone that knows what they're doing.
If you had put a tiny bit of oil on the edge of the pistons and cycled them at the start you'd be done. BTW when they are floating well then be sure to clean off the excess DOT fluid with rubbing alcohol.
Everyone chiming in on here that doesn't actually work with these daily is really just handing you a loaded weapon without educating you on how to safely use it.
SRAM brakes... Well...let me just say I know enough of the engineers that design them that I don't like to publicly talk a lot of smack abut them but let's just say there's lots of opportunities to practice and become a subject matter expert with them.
Because of the design the pistons WILL eventually stick. Did 4 or 5 bikes this week with that problem. I have disagreed with the engineer that designed the lipseal setup. This seals are designed to have a little friction with the piston and flex as well as slide so that there is some back force to help with retraction.
It's a great idea but in the real world it's complete trash. The seals will eventually dry out enough that they essentially weld themselves to the pistons. Usually happens further down in their life. Most road users have the problem towards the end of their first full set of pads if it's taken more than a season or so. When they stick most riders don't even realize it because they end up just losing some throw towards the end of the pad life. They assume they need new pads and swap them. Then get into this situation.
You can put some oil on the pistons (to state the obvious - make sure the pads and rotor are nowhere near that oil) then cycle the pistons in and out a bunch. Saw a hack somewhere that was something along the line of putting a 4mm hex wrench in between the pistons to help keep them from popping too far out. I just do it by eye and sometimes use a half cut bleed block.
I cover a way to do it with their DOT grease in one of my YouTube channel's videos on their systems (yes Anthony couldn't hold the camera still and I apologize). I was confronted after doing that video regarding the grease. Engineer who designed it said, "don't use the grease. It will reduce the retraction." My response was along the lines of, "the brakes just won't work without it." The engineering manager said, "I have a feeling this is one of those 'it was designed to be one way but the mechanic in the field knows how it really works. Both are valid.' situations." He's a great person and an immense asset to SRAM.
End of the day - your pistons are stuck. Push them back. The master cylinder is build to bypass the fluid. No fluid was added to your system. There is a reservoir. Anyone who said you had too much fluid is so wrong it hurts. Instead, now, you don't have enough fluid and probably introduced air into your system and now need a bleed.
If you have to take it to a shop because you don't have the tools to do the bleed please know this: The vast majority of shops have absolutely no skills or ability to work on, troubleshoot, or fix SRAM brakes. They will call it in to service after trying to bleed the system 4-5x without success and SRAM will warranty them and replace them. With the current part shortages that could leave you stranded for a long time. Get them to someone that knows what they're doing.
If you had put a tiny bit of oil on the edge of the pistons and cycled them at the start you'd be done. BTW when they are floating well then be sure to clean off the excess DOT fluid with rubbing alcohol.
Last edited by Mattyb13; 07-07-21 at 06:38 AM. Reason: spelling
07-07-21, 08:14 AM
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I've had similar issues with my Red post mount calipers. My fix was to put a piece of white cardboard under the wheel to help see the gaps between the pads and rotors. Then I put a touch of grease on all the contact points of the hardware. So things would tighten without galling and moving around. Business card on both sides of the rotor. Squeeze the brake. Tighten each bolt a little at a time. Sight through the pads and rotor. Make any adjustments slowly. Worked great.
07-09-21, 01:15 PM
#13
TFO
Totally the wrong thing to do.
Everyone chiming in on here that doesn't actually work with these daily is really just handing you a loaded weapon without educating you on how to safely use it.
SRAM brakes... Well...let me just say I know enough of the engineers that design them that I don't like to publicly talk a lot of smack abut them but let's just say there's lots of opportunities to practice and become a subject matter expert with them.
Because of the design the pistons WILL eventually stick. Did 4 or 5 bikes this week with that problem. I have disagreed with the engineer that designed the lipseal setup. This seals are designed to have a little friction with the piston and flex as well as slide so that there is some back force to help with retraction.
It's a great idea but in the real world it's complete trash. The seals will eventually dry out enough that they essentially weld themselves to the pistons. Usually happens further down in their life. Most road users have the problem towards the end of their first full set of pads if it's taken more than a season or so. When they stick most riders don't even realize it because they end up just losing some throw towards the end of the pad life. They assume they need new pads and swap them. Then get into this situation.
You can put some oil on the pistons (to state the obvious - make sure the pads and rotor are nowhere near that oil) then cycle the pistons in and out a bunch. Saw a hack somewhere that was something along the line of putting a 4mm hex wrench in between the pistons to help keep them from popping too far out. I just do it by eye and sometimes use a half cut bleed block.
I cover a way to do it with their DOT grease in one of my YouTube channel's videos on their systems (yes Anthony couldn't hold the camera still and I apologize). I was confronted after doing that video regarding the grease. Engineer who designed it said, "don't use the grease. It will reduce the retraction." My response was along the lines of, "the brakes just won't work without it." The engineering manager said, "I have a feeling this is one of those 'it was designed to be one way but the mechanic in the field knows how it really works. Both are valid.' situations." He's a great person and an immense asset to SRAM.
End of the day - your pistons are stuck. Push them back. The master cylinder is build to bypass the fluid. No fluid was added to your system. There is a reservoir. Anyone who said you had too much fluid is so wrong it hurts. Instead, now, you don't have enough fluid and probably introduced air into your system and now need a bleed.
If you have to take it to a shop because you don't have the tools to do the bleed please know this: The vast majority of shops have absolutely no skills or ability to work on, troubleshoot, or fix SRAM brakes. They will call it in to service after trying to bleed the system 4-5x without success and SRAM will warranty them and replace them. With the current part shortages that could leave you stranded for a long time. Get them to someone that knows what they're doing.
If you had put a tiny bit of oil on the edge of the pistons and cycled them at the start you'd be done. BTW when they are floating well then be sure to clean off the excess DOT fluid with rubbing alcohol.
Everyone chiming in on here that doesn't actually work with these daily is really just handing you a loaded weapon without educating you on how to safely use it.
SRAM brakes... Well...let me just say I know enough of the engineers that design them that I don't like to publicly talk a lot of smack abut them but let's just say there's lots of opportunities to practice and become a subject matter expert with them.
Because of the design the pistons WILL eventually stick. Did 4 or 5 bikes this week with that problem. I have disagreed with the engineer that designed the lipseal setup. This seals are designed to have a little friction with the piston and flex as well as slide so that there is some back force to help with retraction.
It's a great idea but in the real world it's complete trash. The seals will eventually dry out enough that they essentially weld themselves to the pistons. Usually happens further down in their life. Most road users have the problem towards the end of their first full set of pads if it's taken more than a season or so. When they stick most riders don't even realize it because they end up just losing some throw towards the end of the pad life. They assume they need new pads and swap them. Then get into this situation.
You can put some oil on the pistons (to state the obvious - make sure the pads and rotor are nowhere near that oil) then cycle the pistons in and out a bunch. Saw a hack somewhere that was something along the line of putting a 4mm hex wrench in between the pistons to help keep them from popping too far out. I just do it by eye and sometimes use a half cut bleed block.
I cover a way to do it with their DOT grease in one of my YouTube channel's videos on their systems (yes Anthony couldn't hold the camera still and I apologize). I was confronted after doing that video regarding the grease. Engineer who designed it said, "don't use the grease. It will reduce the retraction." My response was along the lines of, "the brakes just won't work without it." The engineering manager said, "I have a feeling this is one of those 'it was designed to be one way but the mechanic in the field knows how it really works. Both are valid.' situations." He's a great person and an immense asset to SRAM.
End of the day - your pistons are stuck. Push them back. The master cylinder is build to bypass the fluid. No fluid was added to your system. There is a reservoir. Anyone who said you had too much fluid is so wrong it hurts. Instead, now, you don't have enough fluid and probably introduced air into your system and now need a bleed.
If you have to take it to a shop because you don't have the tools to do the bleed please know this: The vast majority of shops have absolutely no skills or ability to work on, troubleshoot, or fix SRAM brakes. They will call it in to service after trying to bleed the system 4-5x without success and SRAM will warranty them and replace them. With the current part shortages that could leave you stranded for a long time. Get them to someone that knows what they're doing.
If you had put a tiny bit of oil on the edge of the pistons and cycled them at the start you'd be done. BTW when they are floating well then be sure to clean off the excess DOT fluid with rubbing alcohol.
07-09-21, 01:43 PM
#14
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In the past there have been issues with seals swelling, temp differentials causing the whole system to bind, etc.
I mean sure, hydraulics is hydraulics but the scale, parts, fluids and seals are all completely different.
Reminds me of the time back when I worked for Parker Hannifin and I assembled a pneumatic cylinder for NASA and missed the fact that the seals were special and put the regular grease on them. That one set us back.
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07-19-21, 10:13 AM
#15
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Thread Starter
New rotors and pads. Bed them in... they howl horribly. bring it to the shop where they sand the rotors, and replace the pads with new quiet organic pads. Bed them in again, and they howl horribly. If anyone has any advice on how to get my SRAM Force Brakes to perform even nearly as close to as good as the old 105 hydraulic disc brakes I had on a much lower level bike I would be all ears. So frustrated. This week I plan to remove the discs and pads. Sand and clean both the pads and the rotors, clean with brake cleaner, bed in again, and again see what happens. Beyond frustrating. Im sure its me or something I am doing but rarely have I had to fight with a recurring problem like this. I take immaculate care of my bikes, always garage stored. Always kept clean. Just annoying! Thanks for ANY advice!
07-24-21, 11:48 AM
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I have a BMC with force brake, they were howling as well (fog horn noise style). I removed the pads, soaked them in rubbing alcohol (95%). I cleaned the disc with rubbing alcohol as well. I rinsed them under water as well and rubbed the 2 pads braking surface together. Wearing clean disposable gloves, I reinstalled them, centered the caliper at the same time. I went to bed them again (basically doing 20 - 30 hard stop without totally stopping). They were squealing at the first few stop during the bedding process, but after maybe 3 or 4 stop they became quiet. I did that for the front and back (one at the time, so I can get to that mountain to bed the brake and use the other brake to get there). Anyway, it's been 650km since then, and no squeal, dead silent.
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07-30-21, 04:31 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Sram force brake help help help please!
Well the horrible foghorn sounding SRAM FORCE BRAKES saga continues!
I am:
1. COMPLETELY STUMPED
2. COMPLETELY FRUSTRATED!
WITH gloves on so as not to touch the rotors or pads.Pulled the rotors. Cleaned CLEANED with alcohol. Scored with 120 grit. Cleaned with alcohol again.
Purchased and installed new SRAM OEM quiet pads. Never touched the pads. Gloves on, and from the package into the spring clip, and straight into the caliper.
Took it out to bed in the new pads.
10 passes from 10mph down to a walking pace it sounded ok. After about 10 passes it started to howl!
Completed 25 passes from 10mph down to a walking pace. By the end of the 25 the brakes were howling pretty good again. SO ANNOYING!
I Kept at it though.
Another 20 passes from 18-20mph down to a walking speed Applying more aggressive pressure to the brakes this round. Howling pretty aggressively every single time.
The bite is pretty good, but the howling is horrible, and as I get close to a stop it makes the weirdest grinding sounds.
What can this be? Does anyone have any ideas? Please! Any help is so appreciated.
Could there be a problem with the pistons applying uneven pressure causing vibration or something?
Could there be a problem with the caliper resonating through the frame or something? The caliper is torqued down to spec.
I have heard to maybe apply a VERY thin layer of grease on the back of the brake pad to stop harmonic vibration? Anyone tried this?
Could I be scoring the rotor too aggressively? I am not leaving deep scratches, just scuffing it up. Maybe?
Literally I am game to try anything. This Force drivetrain is top notch, but the brakes are absolutely giving me fits!
Thanks!
I am:
1. COMPLETELY STUMPED
2. COMPLETELY FRUSTRATED!
WITH gloves on so as not to touch the rotors or pads.Pulled the rotors. Cleaned CLEANED with alcohol. Scored with 120 grit. Cleaned with alcohol again.
Purchased and installed new SRAM OEM quiet pads. Never touched the pads. Gloves on, and from the package into the spring clip, and straight into the caliper.
Took it out to bed in the new pads.
10 passes from 10mph down to a walking pace it sounded ok. After about 10 passes it started to howl!
Completed 25 passes from 10mph down to a walking pace. By the end of the 25 the brakes were howling pretty good again. SO ANNOYING!
I Kept at it though.
Another 20 passes from 18-20mph down to a walking speed Applying more aggressive pressure to the brakes this round. Howling pretty aggressively every single time.
The bite is pretty good, but the howling is horrible, and as I get close to a stop it makes the weirdest grinding sounds.
What can this be? Does anyone have any ideas? Please! Any help is so appreciated.
Could there be a problem with the pistons applying uneven pressure causing vibration or something?
Could there be a problem with the caliper resonating through the frame or something? The caliper is torqued down to spec.
I have heard to maybe apply a VERY thin layer of grease on the back of the brake pad to stop harmonic vibration? Anyone tried this?
Could I be scoring the rotor too aggressively? I am not leaving deep scratches, just scuffing it up. Maybe?
Literally I am game to try anything. This Force drivetrain is top notch, but the brakes are absolutely giving me fits!
Thanks!
Last edited by Mattyb13; 07-30-21 at 04:35 PM. Reason: spelling
07-30-21, 08:05 PM
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Well the horrible foghorn sounding SRAM FORCE BRAKES saga continues!
I am:
1. COMPLETELY STUMPED
2. COMPLETELY FRUSTRATED!
WITH gloves on so as not to touch the rotors or pads.Pulled the rotors. Cleaned CLEANED with alcohol. Scored with 120 grit. Cleaned with alcohol again.
Purchased and installed new SRAM OEM quiet pads. Never touched the pads. Gloves on, and from the package into the spring clip, and straight into the caliper.
Took it out to bed in the new pads.
10 passes from 10mph down to a walking pace it sounded ok. After about 10 passes it started to howl!
Completed 25 passes from 10mph down to a walking pace. By the end of the 25 the brakes were howling pretty good again. SO ANNOYING!
I Kept at it though.
Another 20 passes from 18-20mph down to a walking speed Applying more aggressive pressure to the brakes this round. Howling pretty aggressively every single time.
The bite is pretty good, but the howling is horrible, and as I get close to a stop it makes the weirdest grinding sounds.
What can this be? Does anyone have any ideas? Please! Any help is so appreciated.
Could there be a problem with the pistons applying uneven pressure causing vibration or something?
Could there be a problem with the caliper resonating through the frame or something? The caliper is torqued down to spec.
I have heard to maybe apply a VERY thin layer of grease on the back of the brake pad to stop harmonic vibration? Anyone tried this?
Could I be scoring the rotor too aggressively? I am not leaving deep scratches, just scuffing it up. Maybe?
Literally I am game to try anything. This Force drivetrain is top notch, but the brakes are absolutely giving me fits!
Thanks!
I am:
1. COMPLETELY STUMPED
2. COMPLETELY FRUSTRATED!
WITH gloves on so as not to touch the rotors or pads.Pulled the rotors. Cleaned CLEANED with alcohol. Scored with 120 grit. Cleaned with alcohol again.
Purchased and installed new SRAM OEM quiet pads. Never touched the pads. Gloves on, and from the package into the spring clip, and straight into the caliper.
Took it out to bed in the new pads.
10 passes from 10mph down to a walking pace it sounded ok. After about 10 passes it started to howl!
Completed 25 passes from 10mph down to a walking pace. By the end of the 25 the brakes were howling pretty good again. SO ANNOYING!
I Kept at it though.
Another 20 passes from 18-20mph down to a walking speed Applying more aggressive pressure to the brakes this round. Howling pretty aggressively every single time.
The bite is pretty good, but the howling is horrible, and as I get close to a stop it makes the weirdest grinding sounds.
What can this be? Does anyone have any ideas? Please! Any help is so appreciated.
Could there be a problem with the pistons applying uneven pressure causing vibration or something?
Could there be a problem with the caliper resonating through the frame or something? The caliper is torqued down to spec.
I have heard to maybe apply a VERY thin layer of grease on the back of the brake pad to stop harmonic vibration? Anyone tried this?
Could I be scoring the rotor too aggressively? I am not leaving deep scratches, just scuffing it up. Maybe?
Literally I am game to try anything. This Force drivetrain is top notch, but the brakes are absolutely giving me fits!
Thanks!
