staehpj1

Yeah, I'd take it to avoid needing to shop for fuel at the start of a tour, but might replace it with Yellow Heet when I could get some.

2flit

A good place to try and find good stove alcohol is at Marine supply stores (if your near water/ocean). It's both used as a cleaning solvent (caulk clean-up) and also in Boat Stoves.
We've used these little Alcohol 'jet' stoves for about 25 years on self supported cycle tours up to 45 days. We've found Alcohol easily in Canada, New Zealand, Hawaii, Belize, Mexico, French Polynesia (Huahine, Nuka Hiva, and the Tuamotus) France Belgium, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary, only place that took us a couple days was Belize.
We recommend TrailDesigns (no affiliation) https://www.traildesigns.com/collections/stove-systems . The alcohol stove I use the most is no longer made but my last cycle tour I used this new one and liked it (though it seemed a bit overly fancy) https://www.traildesigns.com/products/classic-ti-tri
Here is a picture of that one:



About 40 miles outside (North) of Banff Alberta camped along a river off the Bow Valley Parkway

staehpj1

They tend to be a reliable source for quarts and gallons. I have the same problem with them that I have with paint stores, home depot, and lowes who also stock quarts and gallons of alcohol. I much prefer to carry way less than a quart at a time. For me the 12 ounce bottle of Yellow Heet is about what I usually want to carry on a road tour since my perference is to travel very light and restock often. I might resort to carrying more if cooking for more than one person or in an area where I will be unable to resupply frequently, but in those cases I have tended to use a different stove rather than my alcohol stove. So when buying at home a gallon or quart are fine, but on the road I'd typically rather pick up a 12 ounce Yellow Heet.

On a different note:
These days I have been getting away from alcohol stoves more of the time for backpacking due to the likelyhood of fire bans requiring a stove with a shutoff valve. I also have tended towards other stoves for canoe camping lately. That had meant canister stoves, but I have been tending more toward white gas stoves for those uses. I had a similar issue to my problem with alcohol fuel and wanting to buy small quantities of white gas, but solved that when I realized that zippo and ronson cigarette lighter fluid was naptha (not the same stuff as charcoal lighter fluid which is more like kerosene). I find that I can buy it in a variety of sizes (4, 5, 6, 8, or 12 ounces). Prices for the naptha lighter fluid can vary pretty widely and it is quite a bit more expensive than buying a gallon, but I have generally found it for something that I didn't mind paying given the convenience of the small size. My local Walmat has 8 ounces in stock for $2.19. My local Walgreens has 12 ounces for $5,79. The local Ace Hardware has the 5 ounce for $2.99. Obviously it makes sense to buy a gallon when using white gas and filling the fuel bottle from at home. I can get a gallon of the Coleman stuff locally for $14.47 and the Crown brand is available locally for $7.64.

tcs

When we talk of 'canister' stoves, it's safely assumed we mean iso-butane in threaded Lindal-valve canisters:


Here in Parts Unknown I've seen butane packaged in aerosol cylinders with twist-click connections


In the USA these are used in car camping (NTTAWWT!) stoves


although in Japan and other locales they make nifty hiking/cycletouring stoves that use the twist click cylinders



My local Walmart, Acadamy and REI have a shelf full of these aerosol butane canisters, but I haven't seen them anywhere in the hinterland.

There are Lindal-to-Aerosol and Aerosol-to-Lindal adapters available.

Tourist in MSN

I saw on a camp stove forum discussion of using those butane canisters to refill the threaded canisters (threaded, such as MSR, Primus, Optimus, etc.).

Then I was really surprised to see those tall skinny butane cannisters for sale in some of the RV campgrounds that I stayed in on my last bike tour. Since then I have bought the tools that I would need to refill my threaded cannisters from the tall skinny cannisters, in case the tall skinny ones are the only ones available.

I have also bought some of the tall skinny ones to make sure I knew that my re-filling tools worked. Yes they did. But a stove like the one you had (below) could be a useful thing to have as a backup plan. It really surprised me that the tall skinny cannisters were for sale at those RV campgrounds but the short threaded ones that our campstoves are designed for were not available for sale at those campgrounds.



And of course no cannister stove discussion is complete if you don't mention the puncture type canisters like you previously posted in post number 107, above. (I showed the adapter for them in post 116.)

Or the non-threaded GAZ cannisters available in and near France, like the one below. The MSR Superfly stove that works on it is also shown in the photo below. I believe that Primus also makes a stove that works on these, plus GAZ makes a few stoves.

2flit

For me... many of the places we have gone and length of the tour leaves me very happy carrying a 1-litter aluminum bottle of alcohol in one of our water bottle cages.



My concern is more about running out! ... and yes I have had to buy a one gallon container on one occasion in France but am happy to give the rest away. The cost seems trivial yet I still sometimes fret about silly little things like this. I would never be able to 're-supply frequently' on most of the tours we do..
... So am so very happy with the tiny, light weight, and oh so very quiet sound of our alcohol stove.

staehpj1

You say "we" and I see a tandem in the picture so that automatically means you need twice as much fuel. If I were not solo, buying a quart at a time would not be too much of an issue, more than I like, but manageable. People seem to be able to give sway the remains of a gallon. I can see that if you buy it in some places, but most of the time I am likely to find it in a big box store who won't be likely to want it. Did you carry it until you found a home for it?

2flit

Giving 3/4 gallon of alcohol away at the Big-10 in France took about 30 seconds; It took longer to tip it into our 1-litter frame carried and 5-oz poly day tank than to give away. I think? It only happened once that we bought the gallon but it's was easy to giveaway at the store. I think all stoves are great because it means folks are cycle camping. Your advice is supper good.

Go cycle camping is the advice I give....

staehpj1

I have never tried, but maybe it would be easy outside a busy walmart. I was thinking it might be hard to find a taker, but maybe not. For sure outside a Bass Pro, Academy Sports, or REI it would be very easy to give away if there was any foot traffic.

Lovegasoline

This thread has kicked around for some years and I've not gone back and reread all the posts so what follows may be simply rehashing previous info:

For those using an MSR Whisperlite (reliable, field serviceable, rugged, powerful, loud, cheap to operate, and despite camping lore capable of simmering) they do make a replaceable fuel jet - which is a tiny lightweight part - made specifically for use with standard automobile gasoline not white gas. The In fact a variant model called the 'MSR Whisperlite International' includes the auxiliary jet to permit it to burn white gas, kerosene, and unleaded auto fuel.

When I am doing long term camping at an area (aka a 'dig in') I typically buy a gallon of white gas. However, when moving about I use gasoline purchased at the gas station pump because it's available anywhere there's cars so it's ubiquitous and cheap. The only tradeoff is that it burns dirtier than white gas so pot bottoms may get more soot and one will likely need to clean the jet orifice more often (but with the modern 'shaker jet' version of the Whisperlite this task is easy and involves simply shaking the stove before firing it up each time). Despite the advent and convenience of the shaker jet technology I highly advise owning and bringing the auxiliary jet cleaning tool (which weights next to nothing) esp. when using standard auto fuel. Other than incorrect fuel bottle pressurization, a dirty or obstructed jet is the most likely cause of poor performance for this stove. It's also a good idea to carry a few small 'O' rings for the pump (either from an MSR maintenance/rebuild kit or from a good camping store's tackle box of spare parts kept behind the counter) as well as the little lightweight stamped metal field tool which permits one to break down the stove in the field. Also, a few drops of oil on the pump's plunger cup if/when needed. Armed in such a manner this stove will serve a lifetime.

If you're comfortable with the weight, performance, and cost of this stove + bottle system it can be operated very cheaply with standard gasoline that's always available (even without gas stations you can siphon it from a car). If price is a concern I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used one as they are durable and even if beat up they can perform well and they have been produced in huge quantities (disassemble & clean it, by soaking the jets metal parts, replace any worn out 'O' rings, bend the wire legs if thy've been distorted). MSR also has a very solid track record for warranty and repair.

*Note on buying used:
The shaker jet is a conveinance worth having. Be aware that first generation models have a rubber fuel line covered in a reddish woven cloth, newer versions have a metal braided covered fuel line. I've owned this stove 30 years (two models) and have accumulated 2-3+ years worth of continuous usage time. 20+ years ago my very old original from the 1980s needed a repair and I sent it in to MSR however they refused to return it due to it having an outdated 'hazardous' cloth fuel line covering thus generously offered to replace it with a new and improved shaker jet/metal braided fuel line model.

staehpj1

Two things...
1. The special jet is for kerosene. White gas and gasoline use the same jet. At least that is my understanding. I am pretty sure that is what the literature with my whisperlite interntional said.
2. Many (most? all?) cars these days have a baffle that makes it hard to impossible to siphon gas out of them. Gas is still very available though, but I wouldn't rely on siphoning out of a car.

Gasoline does have additives that may be best avoided if possible. I don't worry too much about that and just make it a point to use the stove in the open where the fumes will dissapate quickly. I do use white gas or naptha rather than gasoline when it is available and consider gasoline a fall back plan especialy on my SVEA 123 which isn't officially rated for it. With the whisperlight I am more likely to use gasoline, but still prefer white gas.

Tourist in MSN

That is my understanding as well.

I do not have a liquid fuel MSR stove, but my Primus Omnifuel kerosene jet is marked 28 and the white gas jet is marked 37, the 28 jet is 0.28mm in diameter, etc. Thus it would make sense that the MSR stove uses different jets for those fuels.

tcs

Aaaaaand another alcohol fuel for Trangia/Toaks/pop can stoves: alcohol fireplace fuel. It's ~100% ethanol (well, it's got to have a little something in it to denature it) and marketed for the new alcohol-fueled firepits and flue-less fireplaces. One brand of several:



I mentioned adaptors for using threaded Lindal canisters for aerosol butane stoves and other adapters for using aerosol butane canisters for fueling threaded Lindal canister stoves. In a 35' motorhome, sure, why not, bring 'em all, but cycletouring and pedaling every ounce up every hill, I think you could go overboard on the whole adapter business pretty quickly.

Direct attachment:



Remote canister:



If you're coming to the USA from Japan with your aerosol butane stove, one of these would let you fuel with a threaded Lindal canister of Iso-butane:



A cat over on a camp stove forum took an MSR Whisperlite Universal with its big pre-heat tube, drilled a custom jet, made liberal use of the priming-heat pan and claimed to have run the stove on pressured alcohol. Hmph! Anyway, you now know as much about that as I do.

So anyway, we're talking about fuel and flame and pressure so don't do anything based on what some yahoo on Bike Forums said. If you want to use an alternate fuel, study up on it and be safe. Blowing yourself up might ruin your bike tour!

Symox

I've been happy with a 20 year old Primus stove with a piezo starter. Packs super small. I use it with a camping cup that I put directly on top of it to boil water

Cup/Pot: https://gsioutdoors.com/glacier-stain...
Stove: Not made anymore by Primus, but this looks close: https://primus.us/products/firestick-...
Fuel: (4oz) https://www.msrgear.com/stoves/stove-...

I talk a little bit about this in the second part of the video

staehpj1

So I have mentioned that Zippo/Ronson ligher fluid (not charcoal lighter fluid) was naptha and a good substitute for Coleman fuel (also naptha). It is widely available in many small sized bottles. It is kind of expensive, but I figured that $4 for 12 ounces wasn't terrible for a fuel that was readily available on the road in a size that suited my needs perfectly.

I finally got around to buying some and doing some test runs in my stoves. First off the 12 ounce bottle has a nice little dispenser spout that I'd be willing to carry in my bags and not worry much about spillage with some care in packing. It is slow for filling a stove, but precise so no spilling. It is easy to dispense just a little to prime a stove that needs primimg, but whether it gets to the priming cup would depend on the stove. I burned some in both the Whisperlite International and the SVEA 123 and it was indistinguishable from coleman fuel in the ease of starting and flame. I didn't do timed boil tests, I don't obsess of that, but it had a nice hot flame. It throtled down to a simmer to the same level as coleman fuel. Basically there was no difference that I could see. I think this will be my go to fuel when I need to fly to somewhere and buy fuel for a white gas stove on a solo trip. That is if I fly with a white gas stove. I am actually more likely to use alcohol or a canister stove if flying. I am disinclined to risk losing my SVEA or whisperlite to the TSA so It is more likely to be mailed ahead or used on tours that I drive to. Driving to a tour or backpacking trip with a white gas stove I'd start out with "real" coleman fuel (or maybe crown brand), but might need to restock mid trip so the zippo/ronson may come in at that point.

For me buying a gallon or even a quart of coleman fuel is just too much. I typically would use the 11 ounce MSR fuel bottle if I take the whisperlite, so even the 12 ounce bottle of zippo/ronson is more than optimum and I'd likely opt for one of the smaller sizes if available to avoid taking the remaining ounce in the 12 ounce bottle it came in (the empty bottle is probably an ounce or so).

The SVEA has about a 4 ounce capacity so I'd likely either buy a 4 ounce bottle or buy a bigger one and carry the zippo/ronson bottle the fuel came in with the remainder. Alternately I'd take the 11 ounce MSR bottle.

Edit:
By the way, The Whisperlite international will burn kerosene with a jet swap (jet is included with the stove). The thing is I know of no reliable source for kerosene in the very small quantities I'd want to buy on the road. Charcoal lighter is available in quarts and gallons. Kerosene is sometimes available from a pump like gasoline, but I don't thin it is very universally so. REI and Walmart both list Crown Fuel Kerosene 1-K Camp Fuel in a 1 quart size for $9.95 and $6.47 respectivelt here in Tallahassee. It is just a little cheaper than Crown white gas from the same sources and given the choice I'd rather burn white gas. In any case, for me the quart size is more than I want for an on the road fill up, so I am back to the Zippo/Ronson lighter fluid for that. At home a gallon of Crown white gas is probably the best deal.

IPassGas

This is good to know about zippo fluid. On our 6 week tour in summer we (tandem) used 2.5 quarts white gas cooking most every day. We enjoy cooking with a dragonfly. Walmarts are fairly common, so had no problem finding a quart of white gas when needed. We passed through several larger cities and found camping stores with white gas. We could have used kerosene lighter fluid in a pinch, but was not needed. I think I would spring for the extra cost of zippo fluid before using lighter fluid. When touring in Canada white gas seems more common especially with Canadian Tire everywhere.

Tourist in MSN

I was unaware that lighter fluid worked like white gas. Thanks for the insight.

The last time I flew with a liquid fuel stove was 2016, I decided it is too much of a hassle, from now on only using a butane type stove when I fly.

I tried Kingsford charcoal lighter in one of my kerosene stoves, worked fine but I only tried it once at home. Since I have a big can of kerosene, I do not plan to use it, it was only an experiment to see if it would work.

My Primus Omnifuel stove claims to work on diesel. Maybe it works on diesel number 1, but it worked like crap with diesel number 2, so I would avoid that.

There are some farm oriented stores near me that sell kerosene at the pump. Last time I bought some it was about $3.50 a gallon, that was a couple years ago, pre-covid. But I do not know if they have any special rules for the container, I have a 5 gallon container labeled for kerosene so I did not check the rules. I assume all states have the same rules for container labeling, such as gasoline is in a red container, kerosene is NOT in a red container, etc. I find that my stoves work best when I am burning kerosene if they have a mix with about three parts kerosene and one part white gas. The generator seems to heat up faster and there is a bit less soot on the pots. But I have never used a Whisperlight, so I have no clue if that is the case. A friend of mine wanted us to use his Whisperlight on our Pacific Coast tour, which we did. His worked ok on kerosene, but it took a long time to prime. And the hose had a leak in it, so a steady drip of kerosene came out of the hose between the pump and stove.

For about a decade now I have weighed my fuel at the start of a trip and weighed the left over later, from that calculated a grams per day per person number for each trip. They vary widely, some of my stoves are more fuel efficient, and some trips had a lot of restaurant meals. The trip with the Whisperlight, that we did not weigh so that trip does not count. And I just counted grams, did not differentiate between butane, kerosene or white gas. Average was 40.7, median was 38.0, the most was 56 and the least was 27 grams per person per day. This includes bike tours, canoe trips, kayak trips, backpacking trips. To make sure I do not run out, if it is a short enough trip that I do not plan to re-supply later, I usually leave home with about 65 grams per person per day, as that is more than any of my prior trips consumed.

staehpj1

I've always heard bad reports about diesel in stoves, even ones that are supposed to burn it.

As far as priming with kerosene... I read folks saying they use alcohol or white gas for priiming when burning kerosene. I figured that was mostly to avoid sooting up, but it may heat up the generator faster too. Some even carry alcohol to prime white gas stoves, but I think that is mostly folks using gasoline. I imagine that is mostly because gasoline soots up worse than white gas.

cyccommute 

[/QUOTE]

Mineral spirits…odorless and odored…should work as well. It is not kerosene but it has lower benzene content than Coleman fuel (aka “white gas”). It may be more readily available and in smaller quantities than Coleman fuel. Most any hardware store should carry it in quart quantities. Of course, it would be a good idea to test it first.

staehpj1

Just to be clear we are talking two different things entitrely if comparing ronson/zippo lighter fluid and charcoal lighter fluid. The ronson /zippo stuff is naptha and pretty much the same a white gas. The charcoal lighter is something else and pretty much the same as or at least very similar to kerosene. At least that is my understanding.

The mineral spirits you mention are closer to the latter, right? My understanding is that I ought to use the kerosene jet if burning mineral spirits in the whisperlite and it probably is a bad idea to burn them in the SVEA 123 at all. So correct me if I am wrong, but mineral spirits should be considered a 1-K Kerosene substitute. Everything I have read indicates they are not a white gas substitute.

Also, if you are at a place that sells mineral spitits there is a good chance they also sell naptha which should be fine as a white gas substitute, right? If resorting to buying a quart of someting from a big box store, hardware store, or paint store a quart of VM&P naptha typically costs about the same as a quart of mineral spirits and is pretty much the same as white gas as far as I know. Is there any reason why you'd prefer mineral spirits?

Since my reason for looking for an alternative is for smaller than quart sizes I am out of luck with either the naptha or the mineral spirits any way, but the ronson/zippo stuff comes in several sizes ranging from 4-12 ounces so it remains the only naptha product I have found that I can buy 12 ounces or less. The other possible option is to burn auto gasoline, which I'd do in a pinch. That may be awkward to get a tiny bit, but possible.

Switching jets and using something like kerosene or mineral spirits would be okay for my whisperlite, but since I have not found a source for less than a quart at a time I'll rule that out for anything other than an unforeseen emergency. I might have a different perspective if I travelled in different countries. I wouldn't put it in my SVEA 123 though.

Tourist in MSN

I also think that charcoal lighter is similar to kerosene as far as camp stove purposes go, I mentioned above that I tried it in my kerosene stove, worked fine, but only tried it as an experiment.

I am pretty sure that my friend with the kerosene burning Whisperlight used mineral spirits in it.

Since the Svea needs to self pressurize the tank from heat, I am quite sure that kerosene or anything like kerosene would work poorly in the Svea at best, and probably not at all. Decades ago when there were other stoves similar to the Svea, such as the Phoebus 725, Primus 71, those were sold for white gas and not kerosene, the common thing was that they did not have a pump. The 8R and Optimus 99 would be in this category too.

All stoves sold for kerosene had a pump. The alternative was not true, some stoves with a pump, such as Optimus 111B or Phoebus 625 were white gas only. But if there was no pump, it was not a kerosene stove.

IPassGas

From Wiki and other sources, the volatility of mineral spirits is between that of naptha (white gas, coleman, zippo fluid) and kerosene (similar to kingsford lighter fluid). If one has either a white gas jet or a kerosene jet for an MSR stove, it is not clear if either would work.

staehpj1

Maybe either jet would work. I know some say they have successfully used kerosene with the white gas jet. I'll leave it to someone else to try it since i don't see any advantage in my usage.

Tourist in MSN

Jet size is related to the chemical composition of the fuel, as the air to fuel ratio is different with different jets. Smaller jet uses more air.

Some stoves claim that one jet works for both white gas and kerosene, example Optimus Nova. But I have had rather poor luck with trying straight kerosene in my Nova.

staehpj1

Yep, just like jetting in a carb.

I have read of folks claiming they actually preferred the results with the white gas jet when burinng kero. Some claimed less sooting and a bluer flame. Pretty easy to chalk up any advantage to just being their personal impression, but at least it can be assumed that they were successful in burning it. Elevation will have some effect on it too. So that could be a factor in comparing folks results.

Smaller jets for higher elevation is the rule if I remember correctly. So that would make using the smaller kero jet more important at higher elevations. At sea level you would be more likely to get by with the larger white gas jet. Or am I getting something backwards?

I know jetting isn't super critical on a camp stove, but if you were already marginal and went from sea level to 14k feet I bet it could make a real issue.