Bikerider007

There seems to be a thread about once a year in regards to most collectible vintage bikes that has regular contenders with many being Italian.

Just wondering about English specific companies or builders. I know I am missing some but does anyone care to take a stab at an order and provide their .02? Top five or ten maybe? Jack Taylor, Bates, MKM, Hetchins, Colin Liang, Mercian, Ron Cooper, Raleigh, Claud Butler.....

nlerner

I think it really depends on the era. But if you go to Classic Lightweights and look through the list of "classic builders," you'll see that the possibilities are vast.

merziac

Holdsworth

Bob Jackson

KonAaron Snake 

This. Just like the Italians...lots of builders. Some more known than others...

I guess to me the most British bikes are the older path racers...and I know far less about these. The more modern Brits are the Brits making continental bikes in many cases.

I like Ephgrave, Ron Cooper and Jack Taylor a lot. My Pete Matthews is pretty cool IMO.

Bikerider007

Thanks Merziac, yea those are big names. Obviously I don't have a good gauge on English stuff and just blurted some names out.

thinktubes 

Bates

rhm

The hand made ones are more sought after than the factory ones, in general, but a lot of the bigger names were hand made even at the factory.

I think as a general rule the frames that can be attributed to a specific builder are more highly esteemed than the rest.

Also, the frames with distinctive (and highly recognizable) features, such as Hetchins' "vibrant" stays and Bates "distant" forks, command a premium.

And then there's decay. At one point Claud Butler was a top end builder (not that Claud himself built frames); later it was a second tier Holdsworth brand. Same goes for Freddie Grubb. The pre-Holdsworth models are preferred.

And so on.

merziac

You did just fine, many more than we normally think of. Raleigh is a good example being Carlton, SBDU, Workshop and others depending on how you slice it. Especially nowadays they get lumped together for better or worse. I think Raleigh did most of it right which many people will debate but in many cases they made some of the coolest, iconic bikes ever.

cdmurphy

Not specifically "British", but certainly under the UK umbrella - Flying Scot. Brand of David Rattray & Co in Glasgow. Not super prolific, but all pretty high end. I'm currently restoring #147L from 1963.

merziac

This hits the nail on the head "the possibilities are vast", the Brit's easily have as much and storied history in well crafted cycles and their history.

Salamandrine 

I remember at one time a lot of people were riding Argos bikes. There's another one to add to the list. Never hear much about them. There must have been an importer in the late 70s.

3alarmer 

...I have an older one. I think they're still around. They do a lot of custom repainting work on commission now.

The pre-TI Raleigh ownership Carltons were well regarded, as were the SBDU Raleigh bikes.

KonAaron Snake 

Harry Quinn made some nice frames.

Carlton Raleigh in the boom era is pretty awful on QC; i'm sure you can find some nice ones, but I think you'll find a whole bunch that aren't so nice as well.

merziac

Agree on all counts and while the "workman like and decent value" may be backhanded compliments, they are compliments none the less and speak to the true value of basic, well made, good quality products. Raleigh's despite their apparent poor QC in many cases were also still a pretty good value, especially considering the volume they achieved. And they did produce many iconic, gorgeous bikes as well.

repechage

I had a Harry Quinn, it was the race bike I wanted it to be. A lethal criterium weapon, I could pedal through corners and my competition was swearing after they tried to do the same and struck a pedal. Was surprised I got to snooker the guys more than once with that in the final turn before the finish...
The workmanship when I saw it later without paint just before a respray... Hmmm, made me realize two things, Harry had a good painter and it did not take that much brass to hold a bike together! Became aware of the brand by looking at they Cycling newspaper out of the U.K., so many were on Harry Quinn's. Nice graphics too.

Hetchins was an early interest, Carpenter, another nice frame. Was not a lugless guy, but Jack Taylor had it down.

clubman 

Viking.

Lot's of great small builders that wouldn't make the top ten. Alan Shorter built sublime racing and track bikes, including Obree's 1st world record bike. I had one of his 531 track bikes, shame it was just too big.

KonAaron Snake 

I think it would be a sin not to mention one of the only ones post-60's to do anything really different/influential...Alex Moulton. I'd definitely be interested in a Jim Soens.

A brand you rarely hear about, but which are very highly regarded, are Condor. They made some really pretty bikes. Very frilly in many cases.

Bandera

British builders were making machines to suit the unique cycling culture, climate and terrain of the UK where the time trial discipline ruled competition,cycling clubs were well established social/political forces and domestic hardware production developed unique products to suit UK demand. To understand the market/culture that British bikes were designed to meet read Les Woodlands "This Island Race: 135 Years of Bicycle Racing" for a glimpse inside.

Designed for self supported club rides at pace on wet rough secondary roads one weekend and stripped of mudguards with "sprints" fitted to contest a time trial or hill climb the next British club bikes were/are highly versatile performance machines. Surviving builders like Mercian and Bob Jackson still offer "Audax" frames for good reason today, fitted with a Carradice bag they are modern Classics suitable as always for the discriminating cyclist of experience and good taste.

-Bandera

nlerner

Here's a list of the British bikes in my fleet:

'34 Raleigh Sports
'30s Raleigh
'49 Raleigh Clubman
'50 Raleigh Lenton Tourist
'53 Rudge Sports
'60 Ken Ryall
'71 Raleigh International
'71 Raleigh Professional
'73 Condor Italia
'73 Raleigh SuperCourse
'74 Norman Fay tourer
'76 Wes Mason
'70s mystery English
'84 Raleigh Gran Course

rustystrings61 

Just because they're rare, allegedly ride very nicely, few have survived, and they were innovative - Maurice Selbach.

Wildwood 

+1

I cannot find the catalog or reference i'm seeking, but that is precisely the description for my Holdsworth Special. Club ride in-th-soup one weekend, then strip fenders, switch wheelsets and turn the d/o adhusters and race it the next weekend. Long Campy 1010 d/o made it possible. But of course everything is a compromise, unless you are a very serious/multi discipline cyclist on a budget or in a small flat.

3alarmer 

.
...I forgot to mention Falcon, in the early days. For a production bicycle (made and sold in larger numbers), the top end Falcon bikes in their distinctive baby blue paint scheme were very nice bikes. The brand. like many others, suffered a lot of later changes in ownership and the associated degraded product that usually accompanies that.

3alarmer 

...yes, that's a pretty all inclusive list for some of the small volume, more custom sort of builders in the U.K.

Wileyone 

British Builders are also very versatile. Whatever you wanted was no problem for them to build.
This thread needs pics. This is my T.J. Quick from 1985 Fillet brazed SLX. It was obviously custom Tailored for someone as it is 56.75 squared just my size and weighs in at 18.88 lbs. And will run circles around my Cinelli SC.

KonAaron Snake 

I like the cut of this bike's jib. Cool graphics and I dig the paint.