Old 105 Rear Derailleur Compatibility Question
04-30-22, 05:37 PM
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Old 105 Rear Derailleur Compatibility Question
What would be the oldest short cage 105 RD that could handle 7 cogs be? Anyone know? 28 tooth is the biggest cog.
Thanks!
Thanks!
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04-30-22, 06:20 PM
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Rd 1050.
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05-01-22, 08:21 AM
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I think the Golden Arrow can depending on what it needs to wrap (28t max). But it isn’t index compatible.
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...8cbcb&Enum=108
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...8cbcb&Enum=108
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05-01-22, 12:09 PM
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Really? The old school black body 105 short cage will do 7 speed up to a 28 tooth? Now will any 7 speed downtube SIS shifters work as well?
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05-01-22, 12:18 PM
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Yes any shipmano 7spd index, except Dura Ace should work
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05-01-22, 12:26 PM
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Thanks! 
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05-02-22, 11:52 AM
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Quick check; would the 7 Speed SIS Index Road SL-A350 (ebay auction 255495271181) work by chance?
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05-02-22, 12:23 PM
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To answer your specific question, it looks like the 1055 is the earliest 105 derailleur that will work. The 1050 is for a 6 speed cog according to Shimano’s site. Of course there are other non-105 RDs that will also work.
Tim
Tim
Last edited by tkamd73; 05-02-22 at 12:32 PM.
05-02-22, 02:00 PM
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By design, actually. All Shimano SIS RD's from that era use the same pull ratio (with the exception of older Dura-Ace). So basically, if your (Shimano) SIS shifters match the number of (Shimano) cogs, any SIS RD will work.
05-02-22, 02:13 PM
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Excellent. Thanks again guys.
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05-03-22, 07:03 AM
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Hmmm. I think I got the right RD. I was looking for a 1050 but found a nice condition 1051 because some website said they're identical except for the main body plate colors; though velobase said the 1051 can handle one more speed. Hmmm.... Any thoughts?
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05-03-22, 07:22 AM
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Same RD, different color finish. The 1051 was for the short lived 7-speed group but the components are mechanically the same (except for the shifters, of course).
I've used a 1050/1051 RD for up to 10 speeds with the correct shifters, cassette and chain. So yeah, it all works nicely together.
Carry on.
I've used a 1050/1051 RD for up to 10 speeds with the correct shifters, cassette and chain. So yeah, it all works nicely together.
Carry on.
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05-03-22, 07:25 AM
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Well according to Shimano’s site it’s similar to the 1050, cause no separate installation instructions listed. Your just gonna have to install it without the chain, and see if the limit screws allow derailleur movement to cover the whole cassette. It may take one more cog, but possibly only in friction mode, not SIS, did the velobase site specify? It may work, but the 1051 is for a 6 speed cog, the 1055 is for the 7, as per Shimano’s tech site.
Tim
Tim
Last edited by tkamd73; 05-03-22 at 07:30 AM.
05-03-22, 07:56 AM
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Trust the thread and rccardr. He knows his stuff. It works.
We go over it in this thread. Start around post 8269.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-jobs-331.html
We go over it in this thread. Start around post 8269.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-jobs-331.html
Last edited by seypat; 05-03-22 at 08:10 AM.
05-05-22, 06:17 PM
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Trust the thread and rccardr. He knows his stuff. It works.
We go over it in this thread. Start around post 8269.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-jobs-331.html
We go over it in this thread. Start around post 8269.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-jobs-331.html
Threw some NOS 7 speed SL-A400 shifters and it shifts this 'Sport LX' long cage RD just perfect. 1051 short cage RD en route. Like you guys said, if it's same gen same speed Shimano, it will probably work
That's why I love old Shimano stuff; cheap, durable and effective.
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05-06-22, 02:59 AM
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Rear Derailleur Capacities
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK...and less than half of what you read....
Derailleur manufacture's published rear derailleur capacities that were CYA numbers for out of the box, plug and play performance on most bikes. They intentionally underrated the rear sprocket size and total tooth capacity so that they didn't have to deal with customers complaining that such and such RD didn't work on their bike.
An early example, Campagnolo Nuovo Record RDs were rated at 26T maximum size sprocket. Well over 50% of customers who bought Campy components BITD were NOT racers!!! We routinely setup Campy customer's bikes with 14-28T freewheels and ran into very few problems.
On one CR ride back in 2013, there were 2 bikes running 34T large rear sprockets with NR derailleurs and one with 32T !!! Not plug and play but it could be done.
Now to the question of Shimano RD-1050 rear derailleur capacity... Shimano introduced the New 105 gruppo in 1987 to CRUSH the competition for the mid range bicycle component market... and that's what they did! They sold the gruppos to bike manufactures for way under market value. The components are highly underrated by many cyclist because the didn't come on expensive models but they looked good, worked well and were a great value! Think Centurion Ironman bikes!
The 1987 IM Expert came with a 105 gruppo including a 6 Speed FW and SIS index shifting. I replaced the rear wheel with a freehub and a 7 speed 13-28T twist tooth Uniglide cassette. Even with the "6 Speed" levers it worked perfect from the get go.
The RD-1050/RD-1055 RDs are closer to a medium arm pulley cage than short arm style. The RD-1050 published capacity is 28T total and a 28T large sprocket. BULL PUCKY! They'll handle 7 & 8 speed cassettes with up to 32T sprockets without any problem!
They're one of my favorite RDs from that period. The steel pulley cage adds a few grams to the overall weight but the extra rigidity more than makes up for it on hard up shifts on a steep hill!
The 1988 era 600 RDs while having a shorter pulley cage are just as versatile, same thing with some of later DuraAce RDs. Several examples:
12-28T 8 Speed cassette, 48-38T chainrings - hits all the gears.
11-32T 8 Speed cassette, 48-38T chainrings hits all the gears.
All of those setups were pretty much plug and play requiring little more than standard adjustments and maybe adding or removing 1 chain link.
Not rocket science or brain surgery folks.
BTW, not trying to be critical, just encouraging confidence in experimentation...
ONE LAST POINT, the key to successful index shifting is an upper pulley with 1.5mm to 2mm of lateral side to side. That allows the pulley to self center on the sprocket.
Most RDs with that feature will index shift from 5 speed FWs/Cassettes on up. It's NOT in the RDs but in the levers. The sprocket compatibility on Shimano style indexing levers is in the inner workings: 6 speed, 7 speed, 8 speed and so on. (as opposed to Campagnolo's LAME attempt with their Synchro levers).
verktyg
Derailleur manufacture's published rear derailleur capacities that were CYA numbers for out of the box, plug and play performance on most bikes. They intentionally underrated the rear sprocket size and total tooth capacity so that they didn't have to deal with customers complaining that such and such RD didn't work on their bike.
An early example, Campagnolo Nuovo Record RDs were rated at 26T maximum size sprocket. Well over 50% of customers who bought Campy components BITD were NOT racers!!! We routinely setup Campy customer's bikes with 14-28T freewheels and ran into very few problems.
On one CR ride back in 2013, there were 2 bikes running 34T large rear sprockets with NR derailleurs and one with 32T !!! Not plug and play but it could be done.
Now to the question of Shimano RD-1050 rear derailleur capacity... Shimano introduced the New 105 gruppo in 1987 to CRUSH the competition for the mid range bicycle component market... and that's what they did! They sold the gruppos to bike manufactures for way under market value. The components are highly underrated by many cyclist because the didn't come on expensive models but they looked good, worked well and were a great value! Think Centurion Ironman bikes!
The 1987 IM Expert came with a 105 gruppo including a 6 Speed FW and SIS index shifting. I replaced the rear wheel with a freehub and a 7 speed 13-28T twist tooth Uniglide cassette. Even with the "6 Speed" levers it worked perfect from the get go.
The RD-1050/RD-1055 RDs are closer to a medium arm pulley cage than short arm style. The RD-1050 published capacity is 28T total and a 28T large sprocket. BULL PUCKY! They'll handle 7 & 8 speed cassettes with up to 32T sprockets without any problem!
They're one of my favorite RDs from that period. The steel pulley cage adds a few grams to the overall weight but the extra rigidity more than makes up for it on hard up shifts on a steep hill!
The 1988 era 600 RDs while having a shorter pulley cage are just as versatile, same thing with some of later DuraAce RDs. Several examples:
12-28T 8 Speed cassette, 48-38T chainrings - hits all the gears.
11-32T 8 Speed cassette, 48-38T chainrings hits all the gears.
All of those setups were pretty much plug and play requiring little more than standard adjustments and maybe adding or removing 1 chain link.
Not rocket science or brain surgery folks.
BTW, not trying to be critical, just encouraging confidence in experimentation...
ONE LAST POINT, the key to successful index shifting is an upper pulley with 1.5mm to 2mm of lateral side to side. That allows the pulley to self center on the sprocket.
Most RDs with that feature will index shift from 5 speed FWs/Cassettes on up. It's NOT in the RDs but in the levers. The sprocket compatibility on Shimano style indexing levers is in the inner workings: 6 speed, 7 speed, 8 speed and so on. (as opposed to Campagnolo's LAME attempt with their Synchro levers).
verktyg
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Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 05-06-22 at 03:12 AM.
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