Best carfree city
10-26-05, 11:42 AM
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I currently live in NYC. While a easy city to live in without a car, other parts of it are taking its toll on me. I am planning to relocate to either Portland,Philly, or the twin cities.
I wanted to see what peoples exp. has been in any of these cities or other suggestions. I plan to stay carfree.
Thanks,
Matt
I wanted to see what peoples exp. has been in any of these cities or other suggestions. I plan to stay carfree.
Thanks,
Matt
10-26-05, 12:03 PM
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如果你能讀了這個你講中文
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Philly is great for carfree, and is also just a great place in general. If you like rocky, cheesesteaks, baconeggandcheese sandwiches, hoagies, terrible but entertaining sports teams, yuengling (!), and tons of parks, you'll enjoy the place.
There's also a great bike co-op in West Philly, open three days a week with great tools in a comfortable space.
Portland might be a close second, but I can't imagine that either of your two other options will be as carfree friendly.
There's also a great bike co-op in West Philly, open three days a week with great tools in a comfortable space.
Portland might be a close second, but I can't imagine that either of your two other options will be as carfree friendly.
10-26-05, 02:38 PM
#3
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If you check other threads, there are extensive discussions about the best cities for bikes. Portland is (justifiably in my view) rated the best city for bicyclists.
I think it also depends on other factors. As far as culture and general feel, I'd much rather live on the west coast than east, but that just me. To me, a philly cheese steak is about the grossest thing on the planet
. Again, this is just me - I've never lived on the east coast, and have zero desire to.
The tri-cities are OK, but geographically that area is a little bland for my taste. Seattle is generally a very good city for bicyclists, but as a city, I think Portland is better - I've been considering moving there for awhile.
I think it also depends on other factors. As far as culture and general feel, I'd much rather live on the west coast than east, but that just me. To me, a philly cheese steak is about the grossest thing on the planet
. Again, this is just me - I've never lived on the east coast, and have zero desire to.The tri-cities are OK, but geographically that area is a little bland for my taste. Seattle is generally a very good city for bicyclists, but as a city, I think Portland is better - I've been considering moving there for awhile.
10-26-05, 11:15 PM
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--- Be aware that a city that is "bicycle friendly" is not necessarily easy to live in without a car. Such a city also has to have good public transit.
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"The bicycle is the perfect transducer to match man's metabolic energy to the impedance of locomotion. Equipped with this tool, man outstrips the efficiency of not only all machines but all other animals as well." Ivan Illich ('Energy and Equity')1974
"The bicycle is the perfect transducer to match man's metabolic energy to the impedance of locomotion. Equipped with this tool, man outstrips the efficiency of not only all machines but all other animals as well." Ivan Illich ('Energy and Equity')1974
10-27-05, 10:57 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by 77Univega
--- Be aware that a city that is "bicycle friendly" is not necessarily easy to live in without a car. Such a city also has to have good public transit.
Besides public transit, I would look at density, availability of multi-use districts or neighborhoods, and the ease of navigating around rivers, freeways, railways and other choke points. I generally want sane traffic patterns.
Probably, if a city is usable by pedestrians, it will be even better for cyclists.
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10-27-05, 11:04 AM
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depends greatly on where you work as well. when i lived in portland, for example, i had a job at an office located around a busy highway and it was far from downtown (where i lived). commuting via bike was doable but very difficult. there was bus that went out there, but it was pretty slow. so, i couldn't ever get rid of the car completely.
i would say portland is a great bicycling city, but may not be the best carfree city.
i would say portland is a great bicycling city, but may not be the best carfree city.
10-27-05, 11:19 AM
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see the posts in this thread:
bike friendly places
i think if you limit yourself to primarily the core urban areas then Philly is a lot like NYC with a little bit less hectic -- but the suburban sprawl is "worse" in the sense that more of the "activities" of the metro area go on outside the core urban area -- i.e.i think in Philly it is more likely that one would need to venture out to the suburbs (i.e. companies or friends or whatever)
Portland is so great because the city is relatively compact so with a bike (or the transit) you can do virtually 100% of the things people with cars do. it's only if you get entirely out of the metro area (i.e. rural) where it is difficult w/o a car.
furthermore, the culture in Portland is simply more accepting of bikes - it's just got a liberal culture where choosing to ride a bike is often quite respected rather than thought of as a freakish thing or that bikes are just for poor people who can't afford a car... it Portland BICYCLING has a lot of visibility and is supported by the local government and community in a way that few places can match (even compared to here in Germany where i currently live)
but yeah, as others have said, between Portland and Philly you also have the east coast/west coast thing -- i am also more a West Coast kind of person (aside: i'm writing this post from Boston where i am on business for the week) -- my sister is in Philly as she is more of an East-coast person (she bike commutes to work and lives near the train but is a lot less dedicated to being car-free/lite than me)
to be happy in Portland i think you have to like the "west-coast vibe" and you have to be ok with the fact that it is NOT a huge city like NYC, Chicago, etc... it just feels smaller (which i personally like but many find it somehow boring or whatever)
bike friendly places
Originally Posted by nathank
my sister lives in Philly and i've spent a fair amount of time there.
i have to admit that i was impressed with the city's offerings as an East-Coast city: lots of parks, "real" downtown which is very bikeable, community commitment to recreation and parks...
but in my opinion Philly does not come close to Portland.
1st in sheer numers of cyclists Portland wins hands down.
2nd - the sprawl in Philly is pretty out of control so distances are pretty huge.
my sister lived directly downtown (near the art museum) and getting around by bike (or rollerblades which are REALLY big in Philadelphia) was ok except there are almost no stores in the area (they're all not in downtown) so basic stuff like shopping by bike was not so easy. most of her friends are all spread out - a few in Jersey, a few west like King of Prussia, a few downtown (they now live a few miles northwest of the city in Chestnut Hill) and when i was last there i visited a few freinds via bike and the distances are quite daunting. (Portland in comparision you CAN ride from Vancouver WA all the way to Beaverton or Milwaukie)
my personal take: as the core city is "old style" with small tight streets and traffic keeps speeds low (Philadelphia is one of THE oldest cities in the U.S.), it is ideal for cycling (was designed for walking instead of driving). and the high level of local community support for cycling makes the environment nice (the big pro bike race every June is it?) and the bikeways along the Skylkul River (spelling?). but out of the core near-downtown areas it's much like any other suburban hell in the US where bikes are unwelcome (friends lived in King of Prussia a way-out suburb of Philly known for its mall - and they were a stone's throw from the mall but separated by a freeway so it was 2 miles via foot/bike to the mall!!)
as far as NorthEast cities goes, much like NYC and inner Boston it is a great bike city. in my opinion better than Boston or NYC... D.C. i haven't really experienced enough but i think Philly is more bike-friendly.
but as i'm not an East-Coast guy, i am kind of biased...
i have to admit that i was impressed with the city's offerings as an East-Coast city: lots of parks, "real" downtown which is very bikeable, community commitment to recreation and parks...
but in my opinion Philly does not come close to Portland.
1st in sheer numers of cyclists Portland wins hands down.
2nd - the sprawl in Philly is pretty out of control so distances are pretty huge.
my sister lived directly downtown (near the art museum) and getting around by bike (or rollerblades which are REALLY big in Philadelphia) was ok except there are almost no stores in the area (they're all not in downtown) so basic stuff like shopping by bike was not so easy. most of her friends are all spread out - a few in Jersey, a few west like King of Prussia, a few downtown (they now live a few miles northwest of the city in Chestnut Hill) and when i was last there i visited a few freinds via bike and the distances are quite daunting. (Portland in comparision you CAN ride from Vancouver WA all the way to Beaverton or Milwaukie)
my personal take: as the core city is "old style" with small tight streets and traffic keeps speeds low (Philadelphia is one of THE oldest cities in the U.S.), it is ideal for cycling (was designed for walking instead of driving). and the high level of local community support for cycling makes the environment nice (the big pro bike race every June is it?) and the bikeways along the Skylkul River (spelling?). but out of the core near-downtown areas it's much like any other suburban hell in the US where bikes are unwelcome (friends lived in King of Prussia a way-out suburb of Philly known for its mall - and they were a stone's throw from the mall but separated by a freeway so it was 2 miles via foot/bike to the mall!!)
as far as NorthEast cities goes, much like NYC and inner Boston it is a great bike city. in my opinion better than Boston or NYC... D.C. i haven't really experienced enough but i think Philly is more bike-friendly.
but as i'm not an East-Coast guy, i am kind of biased...
Portland is so great because the city is relatively compact so with a bike (or the transit) you can do virtually 100% of the things people with cars do. it's only if you get entirely out of the metro area (i.e. rural) where it is difficult w/o a car.
furthermore, the culture in Portland is simply more accepting of bikes - it's just got a liberal culture where choosing to ride a bike is often quite respected rather than thought of as a freakish thing or that bikes are just for poor people who can't afford a car... it Portland BICYCLING has a lot of visibility and is supported by the local government and community in a way that few places can match (even compared to here in Germany where i currently live)
but yeah, as others have said, between Portland and Philly you also have the east coast/west coast thing -- i am also more a West Coast kind of person (aside: i'm writing this post from Boston where i am on business for the week) -- my sister is in Philly as she is more of an East-coast person (she bike commutes to work and lives near the train but is a lot less dedicated to being car-free/lite than me)
to be happy in Portland i think you have to like the "west-coast vibe" and you have to be ok with the fact that it is NOT a huge city like NYC, Chicago, etc... it just feels smaller (which i personally like but many find it somehow boring or whatever)
10-27-05, 11:47 AM
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Thanks for all the replies so far.
I have lived in Sf/Bay Area, Chicago(2x), and now NYC. I must admit that I was just in PDX for the marathon and was less than impressed. It was great, but I think I have too much "urban density" in me and couldn't handle the areas that are outta of the downtown. Even with that said, I am not entirely giving up on Portland yet. I loved the light rail and trolly.
Good public trans is very important as well. While I try and get around mostly by bike, my wife does not. Which is what put philly on the list, plus the reasonable price for a house.
Thanks.
I have lived in Sf/Bay Area, Chicago(2x), and now NYC. I must admit that I was just in PDX for the marathon and was less than impressed. It was great, but I think I have too much "urban density" in me and couldn't handle the areas that are outta of the downtown. Even with that said, I am not entirely giving up on Portland yet. I loved the light rail and trolly.
Good public trans is very important as well. While I try and get around mostly by bike, my wife does not. Which is what put philly on the list, plus the reasonable price for a house.
Thanks.
10-27-05, 04:55 PM
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well, portland does have those outlying areas, but it's not necessary to go there. i mean...what's in beaverton? or gresham? blah. you can go there, and be fine, but you don't need to actually go that far anywhere in portland. portland's a system of neighborhoods and even if there are those outlying areas, to go to the store or to do do this or that, most of what you need will be in your area, and if not, it's not very far to travel to be in that area.
philly is a conglomeration of a lot of towns. septa helps, but i's pretty sprawly in philly. plus, it's not as neighborhood-centric, so you may have to go across town to get something more frequently.
i've lived both places, and while i didn't ride when i lived in philly, that's the whole impression i got there. there is the east coast/west coast thing, and portland definitely feels friendlier to me. just the perfect balance of big city and small town. of course, that's all your preference too, just as the coasts are.
personally...i disagree with whoever doesn't like cheesesteaks. they have to be done right and be authentic, and you can't get a good one outside of philly, but done right, they're a minimalist paean to the flavors of beef, cheese, and bread. that's all.
philly is a conglomeration of a lot of towns. septa helps, but i's pretty sprawly in philly. plus, it's not as neighborhood-centric, so you may have to go across town to get something more frequently.
i've lived both places, and while i didn't ride when i lived in philly, that's the whole impression i got there. there is the east coast/west coast thing, and portland definitely feels friendlier to me. just the perfect balance of big city and small town. of course, that's all your preference too, just as the coasts are.
personally...i disagree with whoever doesn't like cheesesteaks. they have to be done right and be authentic, and you can't get a good one outside of philly, but done right, they're a minimalist paean to the flavors of beef, cheese, and bread. that's all.
10-28-05, 12:33 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by timmhaan
depends greatly on where you work as well. when i lived in portland, for example, i had a job at an office located around a busy highway and it was far from downtown (where i lived). commuting via bike was doable but very difficult. there was bus that went out there, but it was pretty slow. so, i couldn't ever get rid of the car completely.
i would say portland is a great bicycling city, but may not be the best carfree city.
i would say portland is a great bicycling city, but may not be the best carfree city.
That said, there are good and bad characteristics about both cities that I could discuss ad nauseum. If you're looking for a 'big city', Seattle is a more urbanized major city.
10-28-05, 03:51 PM
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well, yeah...any city's going to have good and bad. you might not find out some of the bad till you've lived there for a while. maybe you should visit each town for a week with bikes only and just test the waters that way.
