Bah Humbug

That's a cute gotcha, but then I'd just be doing it with a landline. Which I'd be paying for, and then we're full-circle. Of course, Strava wasn't around 20 years ago either, so...

Bah Humbug

Even if true, they might just take it away next month when they need more subscribers.

blazin

I stand corrected.

I just looked on their website and they list “compare efforts” as a subscription, not a free, service.

That will force me to consider whether to subscribe or drop Strava. I like to try for the occasional top 10 placement, which I do t think will be affected. But more important is being able to see how I stack up against myself. RWGPS segments might be a better way of doing this now.

wipekitty

Interesting.

If 'training log' and 'compare efforts' become subscription features, I'll probably just keep free Strava for the social aspect and use something else for data. I really don't care about leaderboards (removed myself from them a year ago, though it's fun to see when I would have hit the top 10/QOM). The main value to me is being able to compare efforts across different conditions, fitness levels, and bikes, and I'm pretty sure another (free) website can handle that.

datlas 

Dumb question: why would you remove yourself from a leaderboard?

Sy Reene

I think you also asked something along the lines of "who would pay for Facebook".. the funny thing is that maybe you're right and not enough people would. However, people pay a lot of money so their phone can access data apps like Facebook (or Strava or whatever). I think if most divide their monthly data/wifi costs by the number of apps they really use, it's a lot lot more than the apps themselves cost -- even if they're subscription based and not purchased outright..

Velo Vol 

Sounds like something for new cyclists or new-to-an-area cyclists.

justonwo

Part of the allure is that Strava is THE standard data platform for just about everyone I know that rides. Casual cyclists, serious cyclists, all of the kids on the MTB team I coach. It's great to track my own metrics, mileage on my bike (for maintenance), how I stack up against others, etc. The platform is easy to use, isn't littered with ads, and hits most of the functional requirements for just about anyone I know - including many pros. But they have to make money, and obviously what they're doing now isn't working. It's not vindictive to make changes; it's just business. Clearly, they don't want to lose users, so they're making the bet that enough people will see the value to subscribe . . . and hopefully improve their financials. It's a bit of a gamble, but my guess is they don't have many options.

I feel like I get a lot of value for a mere $6 per month. I don't agonize over the leaderboards, but I think it's fun to track it. When I take my whole family out for dinner, that $6 is less than the tip!

WhyFi

Yup, I think that's a big chunk of what they were aiming at. I'm interested because I'm in a route rut and there's still a lot of roads in the area that I'm not familiar with.

znomit

That's because of all the free features they had up until yesterday.

cthenn

The part that pisses me off the most is taking away "training log" and "my results" as it relates to a segment. That is MY data. MINE. I don't see how they can hide your own uploaded ride data in the training log from you. I do want to wait and see how this plays out, because, as is typical with Strava, it's very confusing about "Training log". On the app, if you go to your profile and tap on the "training" button at the bottom, it is, and has been a paid feature. I don't have any clue what is contained in that, but if you go down to "Training log" you can see all of your past rides. It makes zero sense to keep your own previous ride data from you, there would be no reason to ever upload ride data, or even use the free version at all. Because once it's uploaded, you can't ever see it again in your training log? That makes zero sense, so I have to see how that works in reality. The other thing that annoys me is not being able to see "my results". Again, all that is is a sorted rank of your OWN rides! It has nothing to do with "playing Strava" trying to capture some pointless KOM. The only thing I use Strava for is these two specific features. To log my rides, see the cumulative miles and elevation gain over a week, the month, year, and so on. And then being able to compare a segment effort to my own previous efforts. This all seems to fall under the realm of looking at my own data, and if you can't even do that, it's utterly pointless to continue using. I don't see how anyone would want to use the free version, if your rides disappear once you upload them, never to be seen again. I must be missing something.

cthenn

BTW, if anyone cares, there's a way to download all of your own data from Strava, including routes, photos, rides, etc. It's tucked away under the profile settings, you have to go into "download and delete" account area, and then select "request data". They will send you a link to download all of your ride data.

In case these idiots actually prevent free users from accessing their ride logs...

cthenn

Oh, and to the predictable "stop being a freeloader/it's only $60 year/stop whining" crowd, for me at least, this has nothing to do with $5 a month. You don't think most users couldn't pay $5 a month? LOL. The thing that is a non-starter for me is that for YEARS their platform is so full of bugs and glitches, and service/functionality requests that go unfulfilled. Simple crap like being able to sort saved segments, or making minor corrections to GPS location data (which a 3rd party site did quite easily), and a whole host of other problems you can find all over the internet. Just go look at their own message boards! They focus so much on the social media nonsense, and rarely improve the user experience. So, I'm not paying a dime for a feature that THEY had previously given away for free, while at the same time not caring at all about the thousands of users' functionality requests.

noisebeam

I had been happy to pay for Strava Premium for several years. Strava actually advertised the Wahoo TICKR BT HRM in their app feed and I bought it so I could also record my HR. HR and Beacon (to let others you authorize see where you are real time) justified the monthly fee. Then sometime last year Strava removed the BT HRM functionality from the app. This meant if I wanted Beacon I could not longer record HR. So dropped Premium and started using Wahoo app to record rides and upload them to Strava.

If Strava wanted me back as a paid user I would also want to be able to record HR thru BT devices on iPhone. It pissed me off they took that away after advertising the Wahoo HRM in their feed.
I may end up being OK with free, but it will be in the details.

For example can I analyze someone else ride so I can confirm it is legit? I think I spend almost as much time chasing the top 10 as I do flagging fakes.

billridesbikes

You already agreed with Strava that they can do what they want with your data without your input: “Strava may, in its sole discretion, screen, monitor, refuse or remove any (of your data)”. Your recourse is to request that your account be deleted.

NoWhammies

I don't pay for Strava and I don't use it for much. My Garmin Connect (GC) activities sync automatically and that's that. I put a lot of information in to GC though. I can't be bothered doing two write-ups of rides/workouts and I could care less about KOM, leader boards, etc. So GC for me it is.

I doubt this change will make much of an impact to Strava though. People who use Strava love it and will stick with it. Those who don't, will continue with their current logging software.

hydrationnation

I am new into the rode bike sector. I love those stats and segments. I bought a Garmin Edge 530 and signed up for strava summit. These live segments on the Garmin are awesome.
Some of my friends are into it too... it so much fun and motivation.
If you provide a good service, I am willing to pay for it.
So far I am not disappointed... but again... I am pretty new to the sector.

canklecat

I can't speak for wipekitty, but I've removed myself from a few leader boards because I don't want my name attached to dangerous or silly segments, like sprint zones on the crowded MUP. If I unintentionally crack the top ten on the MUP I set that ride to private or friends only, or remove my name from that segment.

ZHVelo

Which one? I downloaded Golden Cheetah and it seems to have a ton of metrics, but I am yet to figure out an easy way to compare efforts, particularly efforts along the same route. This is so simple in Strava and so clear. You have segments, and you have your laps.

canklecat

As of May 19, Strava appears the same to me via the app and browser. I'm not seeing any differences. Maybe they haven't rolled out all the changes everywhere.

But if they do make those changes, yeah, I'll probably subscribe for a year and see if it's worthwhile. I've used Strava free for a few years, no complaints. I've gotten more than my no-money's worth.

At first I used Strava only for the social media aspect -- keeping track of friends, mutual encouragement, checking out routes other folks ride. I'm a sociable hermit and don't go out to socialize much -- maybe once or twice a month. I feel more connected to my friends if I acknowledge them via Strava and Facebook. It helps, especially with the current pandemic -- that's been hard on friends who thought they were introverts but were actually socially awkward extroverts. I'm a socially confident introvert. I love my friends. I just don't need to see them every day.

But over time as my fitness improved and I got faster, yeah, the Strava MAMIL bug bit me too. I got a lot more competitive. A couple of cycling friends are close to my age, also very fit and faster than I am. So it's a friendly rivalry and we enjoy the encouragement. It gets me out of bed and on the bike on days when I'm tempted to nap all day. If I check the weather and see a tailwind on a segment where my top ten has been whittled away, sure, I'm gonna get up and take another shot at the top ten again. And if I don't get it, the penalty is a pleasant bike ride. Darn.

Ideally I'd like to see Strava buy out the Elevate browser extension and incorporate that extra data into the Strava feed. Heck, I wish Strava would also incorporate wind effects and develop a handicapping system for ranking riders according to wind conditions. Most regional top tens here were either heavily wind assisted or set by cyclists in pace lines. Folks who prefer to chase KOMs unassisted by wind or friends should have an alternate leader board that accounts for such factors.

That's the kind of stuff that would really make Strava useful. And, considering how quickly and enthusiastically Strava responds to user input, we'll see those features in, oh, maybe... never.

But, yeah, I'll probably ante up for the year if that's what it takes to retain at least the features I had for free for the past few years.

Regarding alienating Strava users... yeah, that'll happen the same way hordes of people failed to abandon Facebook along with (X celebrity name here), despite the abuses of user data and Suckerborg's apparent reptilian agenda to conquer the Earth through cat photos, arguments and unfunny memes.

Let's face it, Strava fills a need. Most of us aren't leaving.

Proof? Look at the angst and ire every time Strava changes anything, or fails to incorporate features we want. People don't complain about something they don't care about. They just shrug it off and move on.

Regarding your data... don't record your rides directly to Strava. It's a lousy app for realtime logging anyway. And useless now that they've dumped support for sensors. Friends and I have experienced far more glitches with Strava than any other app or device. GPS sync errors, partial or entire logs lost. PITA. I get the impression Strava has little or no interest in improving the app. They probably figure serious users are using bike computers, and most others who use phones and want sensor data were already using another app.

I've always used other apps to log activities, then upload to Strava. Mostly I use Wahoo Fitness with my Android and iPhone, and my bike computer (XOSS G+, a pretty ok cheap GPS computer). So as long as Wahoo is still around I can access my data. If I was really concerned I'd archive the files separately.


(Digression alert:
Also, if you've enabled Google Timeline tracking via your smartphone, it's already recording your rides... walks... bus rides... Uber trips... everything. You can download those files and convert them to whatever other format you like.

I enabled Google Timeline tracking for legal purposes, in case I was hit by a car (which happened six months after I enabled Google Timeline tracking), or needed independent verification of my many medical appointments. Interesting thing about Google Timeline data: You can "delete" it -- although I suspect Google never actually totally deletes a single shred of data, they just squirrel it away. You can download it and edit a copy. But you can't edit, modify, alter, spindle, fold or mutilate the original Google log. So in a pinch it might be acceptable as evidence in court.)

Bah Humbug

This is literally the flawed argument you tried two posts ago, before the blatant points-scoring attempt.

The cell phone is a basic utility that is fundamental to how we work, communicate with loved ones, and function in society. Strava is an electronic whiteboard of lap times. Do you see the difference? Strava is not entitled to a chunk of my cell plan and internet costs because I use it, any more than any other random website is. Without the cell phone and internet, my life would crumble (go ahead and try to make points off of that). Without Strava… not much. Pointedly, I deleted my Strava account last night and will not be asking AT&T or Google for a discount on internet because it's a little less useful to me.

Do you want a more explicit example? If AT&T or Google Fiber goes down, I can let them know and they'll have a crew of people trying to restore access, as a basic utility I pay for. If Strava breaks something, they'll say "yeah we did that on purpose, because being reliable is hard and we don't like anyone else showing us up". If I pay for Strava because of wanting it to interact with Relive, or BTLE HR straps, or whatever, I literally can't expect them to continue that service. Their habit of changing things with zero notice, as yesterday, is exactly the problem. AT&T does not say "we stopped allowing you to call Webex bridgelines because it's hard, but you can pay extra for it". If they did, you'd have a semi-valid point, though they'd also have a lot fewer subscribers.

The fact that Strava has been unprofitable for their entire decade of existence and the VC is getting impatient means one of two things:

1. they're terribly managed
2. it's an unprofitable concept

My bet is on the former, based on all of their terrible decisions.

Strava is not a utility. It does not behave like a utility. It is capricious and unreliable and entitled.

WorldIRC

So for those that just care about the data and analytics, and not so much the social, what other options are recommended?

MattTheHat 

I use Strava and like it, so I pay for it. I like live segments and Beacon tracking so my wife can tell I’m still moving. I also use and pay for VeloViewer which interfaces with Strava. While it’s importing rides it reports Strava’s API usage percentage. Over the past couple of months I’ve notice a significant extra load on their servers. If people who are not paying stop using Strava, that’s probably a win for them, and for paid users if it keeps things working.

WorldIRC

VeloViewer looks pretty neat. Too bad you need Strava to get the data into their systems though.

drewguy

It's your data, but its their display of it. They're not preventing you from looking at your data - you can go into each activity. What they're charging you for is their organization and presentation of it to you in a useful way.

I'm not pleased to now be asked to pay $60/year for something that was free, but that annoyance isn't because they're claiming "my data" - I have it all on Strava and, now, downloaded to archive, as well as a lot of it on either Garmin or Wahoo where it was recorded.