notwist

Thanks for the input regarding Ultegra shifters. It doesn't help that my current bike has internal cable routing which I absolutely despise working on.

Ttoc6

I've been wearing the high end giro stuff for like 3 years now. They're great helmets. I'm on my 3rd synthe. Lost two to crashes last year, but I keep coming back. Great ventilation. Light, good looking (matches my team kit). And it has MIPS if that matters to you.

I race in the new vanquish and the aerohead, tho.

Flatballer

The Synthe is maybe more than I want to spend considering riding my bike is mostly a dream at this point, but the Cinder doesn't look terrible and gets good reviews. I wish they still made the Kontact, I really liked that helmet.

ancker

eTap. Seriously.

I now have two sets because I despise constantly fighting cables.
Patiently waiting for Force eTap CX1 so I can put it on my CX bike.

Psimet2001 

Word on the Chicago streets is that they have it and it's going to hit the market but got word about a week ago that: "I haven't heard anything yet and if it were to hit by this fall season we would have seen xyz happen and we haven't seen that yet. Also we are starting to really put a hold on intros until we have product completely in the pipeline and ready to sell like that day. not what we have done int he past."

So it was supposed to be out this fall but most likely will be formal like next year. I am wondering if they wait that long if it will end up being 12 speed.

ancker

It wouldn't make much sense financially for them, but it would be awesome to make eTap 12 speed with a simple firmware upgrade. I don't plan to go 12-speed for a while, but if it were a firmware update along with a new cassette/chain, I'd do it much quicker.

furiousferret

TIL Chicago street gangs are more informed about eTap than Velonews.

tetonrider

just go with the electronic group that shimano has had for CX for years now. i've been running it for a long time.

installation of electronic wires is a 1-time thing; no big deal.

(i get why people like eTap, though I myself and not a fan--i just prefer shimano ergonomics and don't care for double-tap.)

ancker

I'm not a fan of the central battery. On a non-Di2 frame, you have to drill a hole or mount a large battery somewhere. Yuck.

And as long as Force eTap uses the same battery as Red, I'll stick with that just so I have battery swap capabilities and ease of charging.

Also, eTap isn't really Double Tap anymore. I like SRAM ergonomics, but the new 105-R7000 "small hands" shifters have me intrigued.

Psimet2001 

We usually are. All of the engineers that actually test and ride the new stuff race here locally so we usually end up seeing it before anyone else. There are a few shops locally that are more tight lipped than me obviously so they usually get to touch and work on new stuff before as well.

I can be tight lipped but the head of the tech side despises me and the feeling is kind of mutual so alas here we are....so unless under request to do so I tend to be the one that is unbound so ...if I see it I talk about it.

From the connections from here years ago I became internet buddies with Caley Fretz. When eTap was still being tested we had some of the guys line up with it at an early spring race I was announcing so I took some stealth pics from the stage and sent them to him at Velo. That's about as cool as we get - which is admittedly very sad because at that point everyone int he world knows about it.

It's funny watching them all play bad cop when you go inside the SRAM building though. "The bathrooms are there. Do not walk outside of the lines along the walkway. You are allowed in the conference room and the bathroom. Emergency exit....well....let's not go there. Oh you brought a bike? Sorry that has to stay outside. Not our fault...Google owns the building."

Psimet2001 

Leah - who is a wheel builder and racer here - and I went to build up new bikes at the same time last fall. We got a bunch of deals and options so...she went eTap. I went Shimano. She got her group in a few days. Built it in a few minutes. Has a like a thousand miles on it.

I placed my order...saved a ton of money...will have the latest and coolest tech available from the highest quality manufacturer in the business..............as soon as it actually shows the f up. Until then I am still on my old bike. It took me way too long to run the routing as well.

Drilling holes is....meh. At times riders with tubulars will get frustrated after a race in heavy rain and call in. "The rims are full of water and I cant get it out!" "OK - drill a small hole under the brake track. It will drain and evaporate out of there." "WHAT!? I don't want to drill carbon!!!" "You realize there are over 50 holes already drilled in that rim right? (24 hole - rim bed and nipple hole both as well as through both for the valve)" "Oh...yeah...nevermind."

eTap is great for mechanics. It does have its issues though. There have been a rash of tons of battery problems. So much so that neutral will usually hand you a battery before you even finish explaining the problem. The charging interval is way too frequent for my taste and the 2 batteries....plus the coin batteries in the shifters....

The Shimano central battery just works really well. Charging it 1-2 times a year for most riders. They have a battery mount now that is also a compression plug with a slot in it to allow wires. The stems have wire channels and the bars are drilled out. you can put the battery in the steerer tube and forget it is all there with the new internal A junction ports. Wireless is cool but Shimano just works.

ancker

I'm not afraid of drilling holes. I just don't want to. Wireless is sexier.

I've seen all of the nifty battery/junction box tricks in the various forums, they just seem to be a pain. As often as I mess around with setup, bars, etc I don't want to have to also worry about how I'm hiding the items I shouldn't have to see/bother with.

I'm not saying eTap is perfect or better, it's just best for me and my tastes.

Psimet2001 

Totally agree. Eventually they will all be wireless and this will all be a moot point.

ancker

Wireless Di2 105 hydro would be on my CX bike in a heartbeat if it existed.

Flatballer

Ended up finding a closeout on the Cinder in a color I didn't hate (not my favorite, but not bad) for $95 after my Amazon discount. For as much as I ride these days I think that's a good compromise. I'll buy something fancier later (probably something pure aero for track and crit use, like the replacement for the Air Attack).

Ttoc6

If I didn't get team discounts on Giro that's probably the helmet I would wear.

The vanquish is an awesome helmet. Doesn't feel as dorky as the air attack and has much, much better ventilation.

Flatballer

Yeah, the Vanquish is what I'll get later if I'm actually racing again. Yeah, looks pretty nice. More aero, less ugly, better ventilation, and lighter than the Air Attack. Can't go wrong there.

revchuck 

I've been riding and enjoying the Turbo Cottons, but have stuck with butyl tubes because the latex tubes I have and the ones I can find have 40-50mm valve stems and my wheels are 44mm deep. The shortest extensions I can find are 30mm, which would leave a bunch of valve stem waving in the wind and looking...wrong. I'm looking for a source of latex tubes with 32mm or 60mm valve stems. Anyone?

jsk

Michilen makes latex tubes with shorter valves, but they don't have removeable valve cores so you can only use the 'slip-over' type of extenders with them.

Silca makes latex tubes with 42mm stems, and Conti makes a 20mm extender.

Personally I'd rather have the stems be slightly longer than necessary, as opposed to not quite long enough. Especially give the other benefits of latex tubes.

spectastic

i've never had a problem with shifting the front and rear at the same time (eg. big ring to small ring in front, and 1-2 gears up in the back when the climb starts to get steep, and I want to mediate the transition from big gear to small gear ratio). this was never an issue, until this year. i've had maybe 5-6 dropped chains during races or training rides in the last few months, where I did what was described above during climbing, and the the chain would miss the inner ring completely. the only explanation is that while both gears are being shifted at the same time, the rear derailleur isn't able to exert enough tension on the chain to keep the chain securely on the chainrings. but that doesn't explain why i've not had this problems in the 2 years that I've had this groupset, and why it's not performing as well anymore. the rear derailleur i'm running now has less than 1 year of use, so it should perform well.

can i alleviate this problem by putting on a chain catcher? I can always just change my shifting habit, and shift the front and rear separately, but in my experience, it's a fraction of a second slower in giving me the gear ratio i want, and I don't like that in a race situation.

spectastic

what bugs me is that some of these graphs aren't consistent at opposite yaw angles. the graph should be symmetric with respect to the y-axis, should it not? the only thing that's not symmetrical on a bike is the drivetrain and the disc rotors. or maybe it's the test environment that causes the right side to experience more drag. the error bars also look like they're based on some margin of error calculation, and not based on empirical data. I would like to see a more detailed description on how they obtained this data.

tetonrider

until eTap offer wireless braking, you still have to do maintenance with internal wiring.

Shimano's Di2 is pretty much maintenance-free (for shifting), so the installation is a one-time thing. Adds like an extra 30', maybe. Personally I feel that ergonomics (preference) and usability (battery issues) should be the reasons a person decides to put eTap or Di2 on a frame, but that's me.

Ttoc6

In general, I'm not a huge fan of that article I posted. Lacks a lot of the info needed to draw the conclusions they do.

To address your point on assymetric data, that tends to be the trend, having looked at a few graphs from different groups. (Aeroweenie.com - Aero Data Compendium) Not sure the cause, just a trend I've noticed. Wish I understood more.

spectastic

a lot (if not most) of them just post the positive yaw angles, and assume that it's the same for the other side, but it does appear there's a trend. the extra drag must come from the drive train then.

whole bike (right side sees more drag)
Blather 'bout Bikes: Win Tunnel Playtime - Part 2

only wheels (both sides same drag)
Blather 'bout Bikes: Win Tunnel Playtime - Part 1

spectastic

question for the fancy di2 etap people. do you worry about having to eventually replace perishable parts? for example, during crashes, the levers are often the first to hit the ground. same with the rear derailleur. also, overtime, the rear derailleur bushing will start to wear out, and the derailleur starts to wiggle at the hanger junction, leading to potential mis-shifts or sluggish shifting. are these things people have seen to be a problem? I've had this problem with my cable setup, and that's why I'm not considering upgrading to electronic anytime soon.