6mm vs 1/4” Bottom Bracket Ball Bearings
#28
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Rivendell's Grant Peterson's opinion (https://www.rivbike.com/products/sd1...775079215215):
"Until the Phil Wood bottom bracket came out in the earliest 1970s, all bottom brackets had unsealed bearings held in place between the spindle’s bearing surface and the cup’s bearing surface. They ranged in quality; had nine to eleven ball bearings (usually grouped in a retainer ring) and a one-piece spindle.
The best ones from Zeus, Campy, Stronglight, Shimano, and SunTour had the hardest and smoothest cups, spindles, and bearings, and lasted the longest. The cruddier ones were less smooth when new, got smoother over time.
This style was and is still the simplest, strongest, most crap-and-bad adjustment tolerant style of bottom brackets. They’ll go on and on even bone dry, because the big ball bearings and the interface are a match made in heaven. If you’re pedaling the length of the Silk Road and your bearings are pitted and the grease is gone and the last time you overhauled your bottom bracket you goofed up and put in only eight on one side and, horrendously, only seven on the other, you’ll still be able to pedal thru creeks and mucky bogs from China to the Mediterranean.
This style of bottom bracket keeps working even when it’s been ravaged by cheapness, time, poor adjustment, and neglect.
In the ‘70s and ‘80s racers and year-round, high-mileage riders repacked them a few times a year, something unheard of now. Snce the late ‘90s, this cup-and-cone style bottom bracket has been 100 percent replaced by sealed bearing cartridge bottom brackets, which are fast to install with minimal to zero mechanical skill. That means bike mechanics can be faster with less skill, and in the market, that trumps any benefit of a cup-and-cone bottom bracket, and fewer badly adjusted bottom brackets.
Sealed cartridge bearing bottom brackets aren’t nearly as tolerant. The balls in the “sealed cartridge” are smaller than the balls in a cup-and-cone bottom bracket, and the weak part is the cartridge that holds them. If that breaks, the balls escape and go who knows where, but they don’t stay where they need to be between the cup and the cone race. I’ve seen this happen many times, even on super expensive bottom brackets. I’ve seen those bottom brackets fail in less than a year, even though they’re sold as lifetime bottom brackets. They’re like a heavyweight boxer with all the moves and power of a champion, starting Round One with cracked ribs and hemophilia."
"Until the Phil Wood bottom bracket came out in the earliest 1970s, all bottom brackets had unsealed bearings held in place between the spindle’s bearing surface and the cup’s bearing surface. They ranged in quality; had nine to eleven ball bearings (usually grouped in a retainer ring) and a one-piece spindle.
The best ones from Zeus, Campy, Stronglight, Shimano, and SunTour had the hardest and smoothest cups, spindles, and bearings, and lasted the longest. The cruddier ones were less smooth when new, got smoother over time.
This style was and is still the simplest, strongest, most crap-and-bad adjustment tolerant style of bottom brackets. They’ll go on and on even bone dry, because the big ball bearings and the interface are a match made in heaven. If you’re pedaling the length of the Silk Road and your bearings are pitted and the grease is gone and the last time you overhauled your bottom bracket you goofed up and put in only eight on one side and, horrendously, only seven on the other, you’ll still be able to pedal thru creeks and mucky bogs from China to the Mediterranean.
This style of bottom bracket keeps working even when it’s been ravaged by cheapness, time, poor adjustment, and neglect.
In the ‘70s and ‘80s racers and year-round, high-mileage riders repacked them a few times a year, something unheard of now. Snce the late ‘90s, this cup-and-cone style bottom bracket has been 100 percent replaced by sealed bearing cartridge bottom brackets, which are fast to install with minimal to zero mechanical skill. That means bike mechanics can be faster with less skill, and in the market, that trumps any benefit of a cup-and-cone bottom bracket, and fewer badly adjusted bottom brackets.
Sealed cartridge bearing bottom brackets aren’t nearly as tolerant. The balls in the “sealed cartridge” are smaller than the balls in a cup-and-cone bottom bracket, and the weak part is the cartridge that holds them. If that breaks, the balls escape and go who knows where, but they don’t stay where they need to be between the cup and the cone race. I’ve seen this happen many times, even on super expensive bottom brackets. I’ve seen those bottom brackets fail in less than a year, even though they’re sold as lifetime bottom brackets. They’re like a heavyweight boxer with all the moves and power of a champion, starting Round One with cracked ribs and hemophilia."
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#29
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Bought 25 1/4” bearings at Ace Hardware this morning, put the BB together, the lock ring is on again.
Made a second car trip to Mineola Bicycle Fitness and Mower, bought cables, a seat post clamp quick release, two 26”x 1.90 Presta tubes (for another bike) and another bag of
1/4” bearings, so I have a supply on hand.
They did not sell me a sealed bottom bracket, because I did not know the length. Apparently “square taper triple” isn’t an adequate description…
Made a second car trip to Mineola Bicycle Fitness and Mower, bought cables, a seat post clamp quick release, two 26”x 1.90 Presta tubes (for another bike) and another bag of
1/4” bearings, so I have a supply on hand.
They did not sell me a sealed bottom bracket, because I did not know the length. Apparently “square taper triple” isn’t an adequate description…
#30
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#33
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Bearing retainers actually help it all last longer.
Bearing retainers don't cause damage. Debris and water infiltration does.
Had it not been for the retainer, all that would have exploded years earlier.
If you think you know better, feel free to present a TED talk to re-educate the IEEE world of automotive and aviation
Bearing retainers don't cause damage. Debris and water infiltration does.
Had it not been for the retainer, all that would have exploded years earlier.
If you think you know better, feel free to present a TED talk to re-educate the IEEE world of automotive and aviation
#34
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Thread Starter
Bearing retainers actually help it all last longer.
Bearing retainers don't cause damage. Debris and water infiltration does.
Had it not been for the retainer, all that would have exploded years earlier.
If you think you know better, feel free to present a TED talk to re-educate the IEEE world of automotive and aviation
Bearing retainers don't cause damage. Debris and water infiltration does.
Had it not been for the retainer, all that would have exploded years earlier.
If you think you know better, feel free to present a TED talk to re-educate the IEEE world of automotive and aviation
I think Debris got in it last week when I had the seat post in and out six times. Crap could have fallen down the seat tube. I had to lube the seat post , reinsert, scraping something off the inner seat tube.
I’m pretty sure that was it.
#35
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What you show in the picture, I can't imagine ever happening in a short time. Nor can I imagine that the races or anything else in that BB shell are in usable condition.
I've been sort of surprised no others questioned that pic and how trashed everything is from the time that you put it originally in your OP.
I've been sort of surprised no others questioned that pic and how trashed everything is from the time that you put it originally in your OP.
#36
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What you show in the picture, I can't imagine ever happening in a short time. Nor can I imagine that the races or anything else in that BB shell are in usable condition.
I've been sort of surprised no others questioned that pic and how trashed everything is from the time that you put it originally in your OP.
I've been sort of surprised no others questioned that pic and how trashed everything is from the time that you put it originally in your OP.
Noise got worse rapidly in the last 3 or 4 miles, and I brought the bike home the last ten miles on a LIRR train.
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For $20 bucks you can buy enough bearing balls to do a lifetime of personal use BB rebuilds. With loose balls you can do hubs as well with the same stock, which, with cartridge/outboard/PF BB more prevalent, hubs are becoming the more frequent use. I rarely clean and reuse balls anymore as the low cost when buying in bulk it's faster and easier just to grab new ones.
#38
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What do your bearing races look like? Are they in good shape or did you replace them?
Forgive me if you've already posted this answer. I just don't remember seeing you talked about them and I don't wish to scroll back through this long thread.
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#39
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True but we are repairing 1,700 (donated used) bikes a year, many still use a cup and cone system.... not everything is new or higher end out there.... we go through a lot of caged bearing sets getting these roadworthy.
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Okay,
I drove my van to ace hardware as soon as they opened. Against the back wall are the parts bins. Ball Bearings- picked the box , it has everything from 7/16” to 1/2”
But the quarter inch are looking scarse.
took the whole box to the cashier.
Counted them on the counter....
25 @ 31¢ each
I needed 22 to put 11 in each side. Or should I go 12? What if I drop one?
I bought all 25
I drove my van to ace hardware as soon as they opened. Against the back wall are the parts bins. Ball Bearings- picked the box , it has everything from 7/16” to 1/2”
But the quarter inch are looking scarse.
took the whole box to the cashier.
Counted them on the counter....
25 @ 31¢ each
I needed 22 to put 11 in each side. Or should I go 12? What if I drop one?
I bought all 25
Several others on here tried showing you the way so I won't repost links to suppliers
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Last edited by JoeTBM; 03-19-22 at 02:09 AM.
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That was after one ride with new bearings**********?...... maybe you have a bridge you want to sell me too!
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#42
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To put things in perspective, I've worked professionally as a bike mechanics for like five years and I've never seen a metric loose ball bearing in a shop. 1/4" bearings are standard in rear hubs, among other things, and are widely and cheaply available. I'm pretty sure I can buy some at my local hardware store if I really, really need to.
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Sounds like such a throwback to days gone by.
John