22' - Aggressive Endurance Bike Options
03-25-22, 12:55 PM
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22' - Aggressive Endurance Bike Options
Hello, I'm shopping bike options to replace my 1st road bike (Fuji Sportif). One of my considerations is the Cannondale Caad13. My questions is, how does the Caad13 compare to the Al Synapse and would the Caad13 be a lot less comfortable than the more relaxed geometry of the Synapse?
Note that my rides are typically a fast paced pleasure and if I went with the Caad13, I would be putting 28mm tires on it and possibly invert the stem if I feel I need to.
Thoughts?
Note that my rides are typically a fast paced pleasure and if I went with the Caad13, I would be putting 28mm tires on it and possibly invert the stem if I feel I need to.
Thoughts?
03-25-22, 01:11 PM
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"Aggressive endurance" seems a bit of a paradox. The Synapse is going to be more comfortable but less aggressive. The CAAD will be more aggressive/responsive but less comfortable.
If you are racing crits, get the CAAD. Otherwise get the Synapse. Since you say you are going to be doing pleasure riding, the answer should be obvious.
If you are racing crits, get the CAAD. Otherwise get the Synapse. Since you say you are going to be doing pleasure riding, the answer should be obvious.
03-25-22, 01:42 PM
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Go test ride every bike you possibly can. Parking lots don't give a good impression. Get out on the road or bike path if they'll let you. Some shops won't let you test ride, others will.
Some people automatically feel the the word endurance means that they are the only comfortable bike made for long road distance. However so are bikes described as race road bikes. Some people just can't be comfortable in an aggressive position even for a short ride. So if you are one of those, then get the bike with a higher frame stack, the Synapse. But if you can be comfortable in an aggressive position, then the CAAD13 with a lower frame stack might be for you. As well, look at other brands too, unless Cannondale is the only brand carried by the LBS's in your area.
Some people automatically feel the the word endurance means that they are the only comfortable bike made for long road distance. However so are bikes described as race road bikes. Some people just can't be comfortable in an aggressive position even for a short ride. So if you are one of those, then get the bike with a higher frame stack, the Synapse. But if you can be comfortable in an aggressive position, then the CAAD13 with a lower frame stack might be for you. As well, look at other brands too, unless Cannondale is the only brand carried by the LBS's in your area.
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03-25-22, 01:52 PM
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Hello, I'm shopping bike options to replace my 1st road bike (Fuji Sportif). One of my considerations is the Cannondale Caad13. My questions is, how does the Caad13 compare to the Al Synapse and would the Caad13 be a lot less comfortable than the more relaxed geometry of the Synapse?
Note that my rides are typically a fast paced pleasure and if I went with the Caad13, I would be putting 28mm tires on it and possibly invert the stem if I feel I need to.
Thoughts?
Note that my rides are typically a fast paced pleasure and if I went with the Caad13, I would be putting 28mm tires on it and possibly invert the stem if I feel I need to.
Thoughts?
The Caad13 has a lower stack height and longer reach than the Synapse. So it is a little bit longer and lower, to put it in a simple visual. Whether that is more or less comfortable is for you to decide.
Along these lines, there is then also geometry from other endurance bikes that is even more 'relaxed' than a Synapse. There is a ton of varying geometry in bikes and its awesome because cyclists arent singular in fit.
03-25-22, 02:11 PM
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Comparing these two bikes in a vacuum is meaningless. Compare them to your current bike while considering what changes you would consider to be an improvement.
03-25-22, 06:02 PM
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I'm attracted to the Caad13 because of the use of 6069 alloy, truncated hydro forming, dropped seat stays, hydraulic brakes and speed release axels. I also think there is a lot of value in alloy bikes vs carbon right now.
I think the closest bike to caad13 is Treks Emonda alr5 which is also a consideration.
03-25-22, 08:08 PM
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Other than stack & reach which can both be adjusted + & -, what would be some of the other most important geometry measurements that I should compare to my current bike?
I'm attracted to the Caad13 because of the use of 6069 alloy, truncated hydro forming, dropped seat stays, hydraulic brakes and speed release axels. I also think there is a lot of value in alloy bikes vs carbon right now.
I think the closest bike to caad13 is Treks Emonda alr5 which is also a consideration.
I'm attracted to the Caad13 because of the use of 6069 alloy, truncated hydro forming, dropped seat stays, hydraulic brakes and speed release axels. I also think there is a lot of value in alloy bikes vs carbon right now.
I think the closest bike to caad13 is Treks Emonda alr5 which is also a consideration.
All of the DIMS have significance in some aspect or other. Also AS or often MORE important is not just the frame material but also how it's shaped, attached to the other frame parts, the wheels, the tires, the cockpit.
Unless you know the person, as a rider, giving a comment on bike qualities. The relevance to you could be some broad view universe wise.
Here are numbers for your bike and the other 2 C-dales - not quite the same years, but models rarely vary much, if at all, from one year to the next. If there's a large deaprture, it usually becomes a New/Different model
https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/f...aad13-2019-54/
I'm not being obtuse, or condescending.
But your experiences on your current machine are YOUR benchmarks. Until you get some real riding time on a variety of other machines, comparisons are very limited.
The manufacturers give their general ideas and intent on their machines. I would use that, barring any real riding experience on that model.
Manufacturers also give their own best guidelines for sizing - I would use that, unless you have another bonefide opinion you can trust - or wish to make your own decision.
If you like the look of a machine and it seems well placed within the type of riding you do - that's an important consideration.
If a BF member has real experience with both models, then that could be a good POV to have - if they post.
If the geo chart for the three bikes weren't labeled - I really wouldn;t be able to tell which bike was which... so much for number differences. But I'm sure they would all 'feel' different after a decent ride - or maybe not...
Ride On
Yuri
03-26-22, 07:50 AM
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In these kinds of discussions, I think it’s important to remember that fit and geometry are not the same thing, although each informs the other. Another way to look at it is, there’s a “geometry of fit” and a “geometry of handling.”
So, when someone says something like “aggressive Endurance bike,” I can understand that as meaning Endurance fit with more aggressive handling geometry. This is because Endurance bikes, as a category, are generally defined as having more stable and relaxed handling characteristics than purebred race bikes thanks to things like slacker head tube angles and longer stays. They’re also generally characterized by having taller stack height for higher bar position, and probably shorter front-center dimensions for less stretched out, more upright, riding positions (again, compared to purebred race machines).
An “aggressive Endurance bike,” then, might have the fit geometry of more upright riding position (higher bars, shorter front-center) combined with handling geometry moving towards the race bike realm (e.g. shorter chainstays, steeper head tube angle).
I’m not saying that’s the paradigm the OP is onto— what they’re asking about isn’t clear to me at all— but I think it’s easier to sift through everything if making clear distinctions between fit and geometry, rather than conflating the two, because fit can easily adjusted independently of frame geometry (within a range defined by frame geometry), so one could get an aggressive fit on an Endurance frame, or get an Endurance fit on a racing frame.
In any case, a 22ft bike, as indicated in the thread title, is gonna be difficult for either endurance or aggressiveness!
So, when someone says something like “aggressive Endurance bike,” I can understand that as meaning Endurance fit with more aggressive handling geometry. This is because Endurance bikes, as a category, are generally defined as having more stable and relaxed handling characteristics than purebred race bikes thanks to things like slacker head tube angles and longer stays. They’re also generally characterized by having taller stack height for higher bar position, and probably shorter front-center dimensions for less stretched out, more upright, riding positions (again, compared to purebred race machines).
An “aggressive Endurance bike,” then, might have the fit geometry of more upright riding position (higher bars, shorter front-center) combined with handling geometry moving towards the race bike realm (e.g. shorter chainstays, steeper head tube angle).
I’m not saying that’s the paradigm the OP is onto— what they’re asking about isn’t clear to me at all— but I think it’s easier to sift through everything if making clear distinctions between fit and geometry, rather than conflating the two, because fit can easily adjusted independently of frame geometry (within a range defined by frame geometry), so one could get an aggressive fit on an Endurance frame, or get an Endurance fit on a racing frame.
In any case, a 22ft bike, as indicated in the thread title, is gonna be difficult for either endurance or aggressiveness!
Last edited by chaadster; 03-26-22 at 08:05 AM.
03-26-22, 08:10 AM
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In these kinds of discussions, I think it’s important to remember that fit and geometry are not the same thing, although each informs the other. Another way to look at it is, there’s a “geometry of fit” and a “geometry of handling.”
So, when someone says something like “aggressive Endurance bike,” I can understand that as meaning Endurance fit with more aggressive handling geometry. This is because Endurance bikes, as a category, are generally defined as having more stable and relaxed handling characteristics than purebred race bikes thanks to things like slacker head tube angles and longer stays. They’re also generally characterized by having taller stack height for higher bar position, and probably shorter front-center dimensions for less stretched out, more upright, riding positions (again, compared to purebred race machines).
An “aggressive Endurance bike,” then, might have the fit geometry of more upright riding position (higher bars, shorter front-center) combined with handling geometry moving towards the race bike realm (e.g. shorter chainstays, steeper head tube angle).
I’m not saying that’s the paradigm the OP is onto— what they’re asking about isn’t clear to me at all— but I think it’s easier to sift through everything if making clear distinctions between fit and geometry, rather than conflating the two, because fit can easily adjusted independently of frame geometry (within a range defined by frame geometry), so one could get an aggressive fit on an Endurance frame, or get an Endurance fit on a racing frame.
In any case, a 22ft bike, as indicated in the thread title, is gonna be difficult for either endurance or aggressiveness!
So, when someone says something like “aggressive Endurance bike,” I can understand that as meaning Endurance fit with more aggressive handling geometry. This is because Endurance bikes, as a category, are generally defined as having more stable and relaxed handling characteristics than purebred race bikes thanks to things like slacker head tube angles and longer stays. They’re also generally characterized by having taller stack height for higher bar position, and probably shorter front-center dimensions for less stretched out, more upright, riding positions (again, compared to purebred race machines).
An “aggressive Endurance bike,” then, might have the fit geometry of more upright riding position (higher bars, shorter front-center) combined with handling geometry moving towards the race bike realm (e.g. shorter chainstays, steeper head tube angle).
I’m not saying that’s the paradigm the OP is onto— what they’re asking about isn’t clear to me at all— but I think it’s easier to sift through everything if making clear distinctions between fit and geometry, rather than conflating the two, because fit can easily adjusted independently of frame geometry (within a range defined by frame geometry), so one could get an aggressive fit on an Endurance frame, or get an Endurance fit on a racing frame.
In any case, a 22ft bike, as indicated in the thread title, is gonna be difficult for either endurance or aggressiveness!
03-26-22, 08:20 AM
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There's so much more to how a bike rides than geo numbers on a chart. Yes the geo numbers help in some decisions on 'size' for a preferred position. But not the only thing.
All of the DIMS have significance in some aspect or other. Also AS or often MORE important is not just the frame material but also how it's shaped, attached to the other frame parts, the wheels, the tires, the cockpit.
Unless you know the person, as a rider, giving a comment on bike qualities. The relevance to you could be some broad view universe wise.
Here are numbers for your bike and the other 2 C-dales - not quite the same years, but models rarely vary much, if at all, from one year to the next. If there's a large deaprture, it usually becomes a New/Different model
https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/f...aad13-2019-54/
I'm not being obtuse, or condescending.
But your experiences on your current machine are YOUR benchmarks. Until you get some real riding time on a variety of other machines, comparisons are very limited.
The manufacturers give their general ideas and intent on their machines. I would use that, barring any real riding experience on that model.
Manufacturers also give their own best guidelines for sizing - I would use that, unless you have another bonefide opinion you can trust - or wish to make your own decision.
If you like the look of a machine and it seems well placed within the type of riding you do - that's an important consideration.
If a BF member has real experience with both models, then that could be a good POV to have - if they post.
If the geo chart for the three bikes weren't labeled - I really wouldn;t be able to tell which bike was which... so much for number differences. But I'm sure they would all 'feel' different after a decent ride - or maybe not...
Ride On
Yuri
All of the DIMS have significance in some aspect or other. Also AS or often MORE important is not just the frame material but also how it's shaped, attached to the other frame parts, the wheels, the tires, the cockpit.
Unless you know the person, as a rider, giving a comment on bike qualities. The relevance to you could be some broad view universe wise.
Here are numbers for your bike and the other 2 C-dales - not quite the same years, but models rarely vary much, if at all, from one year to the next. If there's a large deaprture, it usually becomes a New/Different model
https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/f...aad13-2019-54/
I'm not being obtuse, or condescending.
But your experiences on your current machine are YOUR benchmarks. Until you get some real riding time on a variety of other machines, comparisons are very limited.
The manufacturers give their general ideas and intent on their machines. I would use that, barring any real riding experience on that model.
Manufacturers also give their own best guidelines for sizing - I would use that, unless you have another bonefide opinion you can trust - or wish to make your own decision.
If you like the look of a machine and it seems well placed within the type of riding you do - that's an important consideration.
If a BF member has real experience with both models, then that could be a good POV to have - if they post.
If the geo chart for the three bikes weren't labeled - I really wouldn;t be able to tell which bike was which... so much for number differences. But I'm sure they would all 'feel' different after a decent ride - or maybe not...
Ride On
Yuri
Everyone's feedback is much appreciated...
03-26-22, 09:33 AM
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03-26-22, 10:21 AM
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I have a few hundred miles on the 2022 Synapse I just picked up. I don't know if I'd characterize the ride as "relaxed". It feels solid and confident but not at all unresponsive and I have it pretty dialed into a good riding position.
The CAAD13 has a 73 degree HTA, 57.5 stack, 38.9 cm reach for a 56cm frame and the Synapse has a 73.2 degree HTA, 59cm stack, 38.7cm reach for the same frame size for comparison.
I have already pulled the smartsense and picked up the frame cover so that isn't an issue. I've replaced the bars, stem, seatpost and saddle as well. The stock wheelset is a bit heavy but I already have a carbon wheelset that just got delivered that I'll set up which should really change how snappy it feels.
This review at road.cc does a good job explaining how I feel about the ride. The author notices the same things I did, heavy wheelset and smartsense unnecessary. Both of which are easy to resolve.
The CAAD13 has a 73 degree HTA, 57.5 stack, 38.9 cm reach for a 56cm frame and the Synapse has a 73.2 degree HTA, 59cm stack, 38.7cm reach for the same frame size for comparison.
I have already pulled the smartsense and picked up the frame cover so that isn't an issue. I've replaced the bars, stem, seatpost and saddle as well. The stock wheelset is a bit heavy but I already have a carbon wheelset that just got delivered that I'll set up which should really change how snappy it feels.
This review at road.cc does a good job explaining how I feel about the ride. The author notices the same things I did, heavy wheelset and smartsense unnecessary. Both of which are easy to resolve.
Last edited by KJ43; 03-26-22 at 07:22 PM.
03-26-22, 12:40 PM
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Also, I’d hoped that if there was any kind of sarcasm which didn’t need a wink emoji, it’d be a generalization about the fit and handling of 22’ bikes. Oh well…
05-17-22, 06:08 AM
#14
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Go test ride every bike you possibly can. Parking lots don't give a good impression. Get out on the road or bike path if they'll let you. Some shops won't let you test ride, others will.
Some people automatically feel the the word endurance means that they are the only comfortable bike made for long road distance. However so are bikes described as race road bikes. Some people just can't be comfortable in an aggressive position even for a short ride. So if you are one of those, then get the bike with a higher frame stack, the Synapse. But if you can be comfortable in an aggressive position, then the CAAD13 with a lower frame stack might be for you. As well, look at other brands too, unless Cannondale is the only brand carried by the LBS's in your area.
Some people automatically feel the the word endurance means that they are the only comfortable bike made for long road distance. However so are bikes described as race road bikes. Some people just can't be comfortable in an aggressive position even for a short ride. So if you are one of those, then get the bike with a higher frame stack, the Synapse. But if you can be comfortable in an aggressive position, then the CAAD13 with a lower frame stack might be for you. As well, look at other brands too, unless Cannondale is the only brand carried by the LBS's in your area.
05-17-22, 06:33 AM
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05-17-22, 09:16 AM
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Just fyi: 22' does indeed mean 22 feet. '22 would be the shorthand for the year 2022.
Edit: cxwrench beat me to it.
Edit: cxwrench beat me to it.
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05-17-22, 09:44 AM
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05-17-22, 11:03 AM
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When you do test ride, the longer the better obviously, but a couple things to notice - when you get on the bike and start riding, do your hands just naturally fall onto the hoods? After a couple miles, do you find yourself pulling back to the ramps, or staying out on the hoods? Can you ride a couple miles in the drops, pedaling at a normal cadence? But before you get to that, pay attention to the saddle height, angle, and setback, because if that's not right, nothing about the reach and drop will be valid. If the saddle is too 'nose-up', the correct reach/drop of the bars will feel like you're having to reach out to get to them, whereas too much nose-down and you'll feel like you're being thrown at the bars.
Last time I bought a new bike 'in person', they took a credit card swipe and my drivers license and sent me on my merry way. With luck, you might get the same.
Last time I bought a new bike 'in person', they took a credit card swipe and my drivers license and sent me on my merry way. With luck, you might get the same.
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"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
05-21-22, 01:27 PM
#19
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What don’t you like about the Sportif? I just glanced at the geometries for the current Sportif, Synapse, and CAAD13 in my size (54cm), and the Sportif is taller, but shorter reach than the Synapse, and the CAAD13 is lower than both, and longer than the Sportif.
The difference in height between the Sportif and the Synapse is about 10mm, and about 10mm difference in reach. If you can take a spacer out from under your stem, and maybe borrow a slightly longer stem, you could approximate how the Synapse would fit on you, and see if that’s enough of a difference. The handling and ride will still be your Sportif, but at least you’ll have an idea about positioning.
The CAAD is lower and a smidge longer, and it’s unlikely you have enough play with spacers to approximate its fit - just know that if you find that taking 10mm out from under your stem to be too low, the CAAD is another 15mm lower. Now, both the CAAD and the Synapse will have spacers under their stems, so you could likely approximate the height of a slammed Sportif with a stacked CAAD (about 25mm of spacers for my size).
As for handling, my comparison points are a CAAD8 that I built last year and a Lynskey R270. I purposefully built the CAAD lower and longer than the Lynskey, about 10mm lower and 20mm longer. The CAAD feels fast and darty, and with lightweight wheels is good at ‘pulling itself out of a hole,’ so to speak. The Lynskey is a bit taller in the front, and can’t go much lower (only 5mm of spacers right now). When cruising, I actually feel more comfortable riding her in the drops than on the hoods. I also just ‘feel’ less aggressive on her. That may also be due to the material/construction properties, as my CAAD definitely gets unsettled/jittery a bit more easily than the Lynskey on anything other than smooth pavement. If I’m out for a quick 20-miler, the CAAD is more fun, and generally feels more nimble if I have to cut it up in traffic. If I’m going for 30 miles or longer, the more relaxed Lynskey generally gets the nod.
The difference in height between the Sportif and the Synapse is about 10mm, and about 10mm difference in reach. If you can take a spacer out from under your stem, and maybe borrow a slightly longer stem, you could approximate how the Synapse would fit on you, and see if that’s enough of a difference. The handling and ride will still be your Sportif, but at least you’ll have an idea about positioning.
The CAAD is lower and a smidge longer, and it’s unlikely you have enough play with spacers to approximate its fit - just know that if you find that taking 10mm out from under your stem to be too low, the CAAD is another 15mm lower. Now, both the CAAD and the Synapse will have spacers under their stems, so you could likely approximate the height of a slammed Sportif with a stacked CAAD (about 25mm of spacers for my size).
As for handling, my comparison points are a CAAD8 that I built last year and a Lynskey R270. I purposefully built the CAAD lower and longer than the Lynskey, about 10mm lower and 20mm longer. The CAAD feels fast and darty, and with lightweight wheels is good at ‘pulling itself out of a hole,’ so to speak. The Lynskey is a bit taller in the front, and can’t go much lower (only 5mm of spacers right now). When cruising, I actually feel more comfortable riding her in the drops than on the hoods. I also just ‘feel’ less aggressive on her. That may also be due to the material/construction properties, as my CAAD definitely gets unsettled/jittery a bit more easily than the Lynskey on anything other than smooth pavement. If I’m out for a quick 20-miler, the CAAD is more fun, and generally feels more nimble if I have to cut it up in traffic. If I’m going for 30 miles or longer, the more relaxed Lynskey generally gets the nod.
05-21-22, 06:11 PM
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Last time I bought a new bike was a long time ago. Maybe they don't do it like this anymore. The sales person was very experienced. He put me on the bike I thought I wanted, in the size I thought I wanted, on a shop dumb trainer. He then fit me to the bike, adjusting my saddle and stem. The floor bike had a cut steerer with no spacers. That process took maybe 30'. When I got the bike out on the road, it was all perfect. That's how a bike should be sold. He also sold me on the shop. I eventually traded out the saddle for one more to my liking. I was right about the model and size.
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05-21-22, 07:17 PM
#21
Dead but dreaming
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Last time I bought a new bike was a long time ago. Maybe they don't do it like this anymore. The sales person was very experienced. He put me on the bike I thought I wanted, in the size I thought I wanted, on a shop dumb trainer. He then fit me to the bike, adjusting my saddle and stem. The floor bike had a cut steerer with no spacers. That process took maybe 30'. When I got the bike out on the road, it was all perfect. That's how a bike should be sold. He also sold me on the shop. I eventually traded out the saddle for one more to my liking. I was right about the model and size.
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05-25-22, 02:38 PM
#22
Member
Other than stack & reach which can both be adjusted + & -, what would be some of the other most important geometry measurements that I should compare to my current bike?
I'm attracted to the Caad13 because of the use of 6069 alloy, truncated hydro forming, dropped seat stays, hydraulic brakes and speed release axels. I also think there is a lot of value in alloy bikes vs carbon right now.
I think the closest bike to caad13 is Treks Emonda alr5 which is also a consideration.
I'm attracted to the Caad13 because of the use of 6069 alloy, truncated hydro forming, dropped seat stays, hydraulic brakes and speed release axels. I also think there is a lot of value in alloy bikes vs carbon right now.
I think the closest bike to caad13 is Treks Emonda alr5 which is also a consideration.
Last edited by vlad1xxi; 05-25-22 at 07:39 PM.
05-25-22, 05:39 PM
#23
Mother Nature's Son
Join Date: Mar 2016
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You can make your "endurance bike" more "aggressive" on your own with the set up, and, if you are concerned about it, by losing a bunch of grams.
