JacobLee 

Picked up this tandem from a front yard in SW Portland yesterday. Owner said they'd had it since the 80's, but I didn't get any more than that.



Looks like it spent a winter under a clogged gutter with the front wheel removed, but other than a stuck rear post, it seems to have fared pretty well. Anybody recognize the builder?











Dropouts: Campy, Zues
Rear spacing:140
Rear wheel: Phil 40h 27 x 1 1/4, front 700c but assume incorrect.
Seatpost size 28.6
BB shell stamped CST053
BB eccentric has illegible writing on it
English threading
Headbadge is just a sticker from Danmark

Thanks for any info!

JulesCW 

No idea on ID of maker, but that's a steal for free! Nice T.A. cranksets, Suntour barends, ok workmanship on the frame, Zeus front dropouts, Campy rear means likely a small builder, custom from the 1970s or early 1980s.

Do you have a willing stoker and is it your size(s)? If so, super score!

merziac

@JacobLee

No idea on maker but pretty darn cool and free!

Obviously very well made and nice, lots of well thought out details going on here, especially that front BB, no nonsense and nice all at the same time.

Just spitballin but maybe early CoMotion or Burley being local back in the day?

Looks to have a # on the RDO so maybe another clue and drag brake hanger that wasn't used after the repaint?

BTDisciple

Great find. I may be wrong but the fork crown looks like it could be a Haden item (English makers of lugs, bb shells and fork crowns).

JacobLee 

Yeah, fun score! I do have a wife and daughter who enjoy limited tandem-ing, but we already have a sweet, custom tandem that I found on CL for $300 that suits us perfectly. I won't be able to help myself, though; I'll rehab this just to ride it a couple of times before I pass it on.

JacobLee 

Thanks for taking a close look! The ds dropout is stamped D32. A repaint of a local machine makes sense, but no trace of other colors. The paint on the fork doesn't seem to have held up as well as the frame, which is inconsistent. Also, I thought the key slot was awfully long.



No drag brake

merziac

Anytime, Tx for sharing.

The fork has more ingress for rain, etc. when left outside to rot.

The ST's may have been slotted in a batch so the could be fitted to any size, hacked off then threaded to order.

But I agree, don't want that slot any longer than necessary or the threads either.

JacobLee 

In my limited image searching, I'm seeing a lot of similarities to Jack Taylors.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ng-tandem.html

Doug Fattic 

Jack Taylor used oversize fork blades for his tandems. I'm wondering if the steerer is 1' or 1 1/8"? I'd check the seat binder bolts to see if their threads are metric or Whitworth. I don't know when the Brits starting using metric threads but they certainly didn't when I was learning to build frames over there in the 70's. Eugene had a number of custom builders in the era this tandem was built.

JacobLee 

It's a 1" steerer and metric threading on the seat binders. Maybe a small Oregon builder copied a Jack Taylor.

bulgie 

There is a chance it is a very early Santana. When I started there in late '76 or early '77, the frame shop had been up and running for a little while, but they didn't get their big shipment of way-oversized Ishiawata tandem tubing until about the time I started. I know they made a very small number of tandems, half-dozen max I'd guess (probably fewer), with normal-sized tubes while waiting for the "real" tubes to arrive. That would be just before my time there. I'm pretty sure those frames didn't even get Santana decals.

Those hourglass-shaped pinchbolts do look like what Santana was using then. And Santana did like horizontal dropouts — check! I can't recall if they split the eccentric shell that way, and no clue if that's the kind of serial number they would have used.

If Bill McCready is still around, you could ask him, he was there and should remember. Pretty much no one else who was there then will still be around now, 45 years later, so don't bother asking any current employees!

Damn shame about the slit in the steerer being so ridiculously overdone. Someone fell asleep at the milling machine I guess... Embarassing to put that out in the world like that. High probability of the tube splitting there if you tighten the stem quill too much. I'd stick with wedge-type stems rather than one with a cone; I think the cone type concentrates the force in a smaller area, more likely to damage the steerer.

Yes the crown is a Haden. Reynolds did make "tandem" blades to fit that crown, in scare-quotes because a real tandem blade would be oversized. The Reynolds tandem blades to fit a normal single-bike crown were merely thicker wall, which is better than nothing... Maybe weigh the fork to see if it got heavier than normal blades?

The steerer is another potential problem, needs to be thicker at the bottom to be safe on a tandem IMHO. If you can manage a good reliable measurement of the inside diameter at the bottom of the steerer (not easy to do unfortunately), we can infer the wall thickness and tell you whether it is indeed a "tandem" steerer or just a single-bike variant. If it's a single steerer, I'd consider having a new fork made. Only if you like this tandem enough and are going to actually ride it of course.

Another option is to ram a doubler up into the bottom of the steerer, making it sort of super-butted there locally, right where a steerer is likely to bend or break. Santana even did that on their "real" tandems, the ones with the oversized blades and with the Santana decals on them. Even though their steerer had a thicker-than-normal butt at the bottom, they still thought that wasn't enough, so they had Ishiwata ram a strengthening tube in at the bottom. Designed to be a tight press fit, rammed in with hydraulic power no doubt. This could be done by your friendly local framebuilder, who would have to machine the doubler to fit. If it's a tight enough fit it doesn't need to be brazed in place, so this can be done cold, no paint ruined.

I hope it works out for you, looks like a quality frame whatever it is. Enjoy!

Mark B

bulgie 

Here's a visual aid, in case you're having trouble imagining what a tandem with a too-thin steerer would look like:


Made long after there was no real Hetchins shop anymore. This one was made at Bob Jackson cycles. Last I heard Bob Jackson had closed down for good too.

Mark B

Doug Fattic 

This is a Santana "Solana" model tandem. Your serial # is consistent with Santana's. I found out in a roundabout way. I know Mike Melton made tandems. I thought it possible he might be associated with your tandem. He learned framebuilding in Japan when he was in the army having served in Vietnam. He set up shop in SC in the 70's and then moved to Delaware, Ohio in 81 or 82. That business with several employees only lasted about a year before the bank he borrowed from shut him down. I went there in 1983 after he had left town to pick up some tools and frame materials (including tandem tubes). One of his business partners I dealt with to get a bit of the business remnants was the son-in-law of the president of the bank. He was not a happy camper about the situation. I met Jack from Franklin Frames while I was there.

Mike went to Santana right after that to work with Bill McCready. I read about this in a blog from former UK builder now in the States Dave Moulton. He was writing a tribute to Mike after Mike passed away. Together they (Bill and Mike) came up with this less expensive "Solana" model. A bit later with Bill's blessing, Mike went to work with Huffy in Ohio to make some of the 1984 Olympic bikes. He died way to soon in 2011.

bentaxle

Cool! Thanks Mark and Doug! That was my guess in the other R+E tandem thread, so it is interesting that it is indeed a Santana.

JacobLee 

Man, I love it when you chime in! Thanks for passing these details along.

I had bad feelings about this fork just from the amount of black liquid it burped onto the bench after I cleared the weep holes.



It weighs 2 lbs 2 oz, if that tells you anything. I probably won't ever put anybody on the back of this thing, but I'll certainly pass the fork info along if this ever finds a new home. Is that the correct level of caution, would you say?

JacobLee 

Wow, another fantastic data dump!! Thank you. And sure enough, there are a few frames that match this if you search Santana Solana. I appreciate your expertise!

JacobLee 

Thanks for helping this one along with your thread!

And I guess I have a knock-off version of your cable hanger!




Still pretty cool.

bulgie 

Yeah, that weight is consistent with a bit heavier gauge of steerer and blades than a lightweight single. It's not exactly a world-class tandem fork, but it's better than a lot of them out there, nothing to be ashamed about. Santana thought it was good enough to call it a Santana (thank you Doug Fattic for that excellent intel), so I think you're in the clear. Even if you sell the bike, you don't have to make any special declarations, aside from pointing out the too-long slit so they don't over-tighten their stem. I doubt the rust is much of a problem either. I'd probably just ride it if it were mine, maybe after spraying some Frame Saver or LPS or Boeshield in there to slow down further rusting.

Mark B

JacobLee 

I've been digging into this bike a bit more, and wanted to add some info about the fork. I noticed the steerer is stamped Reynolds Butted 16/13. I also noticed that the canti posts are very crooked; angled outwards in the front. Hmmm. Makes me think this is a replacement, and maybe really not up to snuff.

Just to recap: frame and fork are repainted, canti posts match front and rear, but fronts are wacky, fork has rust symptoms that the frame does not, Zues dropouts in front, Campy in rear.

Maybe somebody recognizes the fork as something that somebody brazed posts onto before a repaint? Seems like a good thing to get paranoid about.

Thanks for any input!

merziac

@JacobLee

I have an older Takara Highlander that I believe has that fork crown.

due ruote 

Regarding the long key slot, wouldn't it be beneficial to use a Technomic or other extra-long stem to get the wedge well below that slot?

JacobLee 

I need to remember to re-read my old threads before I go back and ask the same questions over again!

I was reminded that the crown had been identified as a Haden, and possibly suitable for use with Reynolds tandem blades.

I was also reminded that bulgie had mentioned measuring the inside diameter of the steer tube, which I have now measured at 20.5 mm. I've also noticed the Reynolds Butted 16/13 stamp. Maybe he'd be so kind as to comment on that?

And I'm still wondering about the splayed cantilever posts; is that just sloppy work, or some way of gaining clearance?

bulgie 

OK 13 gauge means 2.34 mm wall in the butt. Take twice that off the 25.4 OD, theoretical ID should be 20.7 mm, so your measurement is within the expected range, the difference being probably paint and/or a burr on the tube end.

That's a normal single-bike steerer unfortunately. So if it were mine, I'd make a doubler out of 4130 Cr-Mo tube or similar, custom-sized to be a press-fit in the bottom of the steerer. That more or less rquires a lathe though. Lacking that, you can make it out of a larger diameter tube, say 7/8", slit lengthwise so it's a "C" instead of an "O", then the diameter can be sprung down enough to fit inside your steerer's bottom end. The kerf or amount of metal you remove from the 7/8" tube needs to be enough to let it close down that far, probably around 1/4" or a bit more, doable with two hacksaw cuts. Align the opening of the C with the side of the steerer, not the front or the back. This kind of doubler is not ideal but it's been used on bikes for many decades. "Some" extra strength ( I don't know how much) for not too much effort expended. Santana even did it on their fancy "Sovereign" model (top of the line) when they first came out, with 1" steerers, before they went to OS steerer/headset. They started with an extra-heavy tandem steerer and then added the doubler as well.

I don't remember the butt thickness on a 1" tandem steerer, sorry. I don't have one here to measure either. I seem to remember 2.7 mm or more, but don't quote me. That would make the ID 20.0 mm or less. In the '80s when I got them from Reynolds USA, it was an in-stock item, i.e. we didn't have to special-order them from England. Still, not what I'd call common. I don't think I've ever seen one on a bike, other than a bike I built.

Tange made similar steerers, in the era of MTBs with 1" steerers. We know Ishiwata did, because that's what Santana used. So a steerer made especially for MTB might be the same thing as a tandem steerer. (All this is obsolete now of course, in the era of OS steerers)

I even have a Tange-built 1" fork that has the extra-heavy butt, plus a shoved-in doubler, like what Santana was doing. It came on a Schwinn MTB, but definitely made by Tange. It's currently the fork on my Schwinn Twinn tandem. It replaced the original Twinn fork that was so flexible you could make the front brake rub on both sides of the rim by pedaling standing up. I have no qualms about this Tange MTB fork being strong enough, it's probably about twice as strong as the OEM fork.

About the splayed posts: definitely sloppy, no one would do that on purpose. But it's fairly common. Any slop in your jig will result in splayed-out posts, due to the way the miters hit against the blades. If the miters were centered on the blades, then the splay like that wouldn't be automatic, but back then all the posts had offset miters like that. You could try straightening them, but they'll probably just bend in the small-diameter part, which would be bad, would make the brakes bind up. You'd need the bend to occur in the square sheetmetal base, but I don't know how to force it to bend down there. Maybe you just have to live with it.

Mark B

JacobLee 

Man, thanks so much. It always takes me a few reads to process your posts, but I feel well-informed in the end. I'll figure out a way to get either of your "doubler" ideas to work. I'm assuming that's mostly a way to prevent a catastrophic failure, which seems like a really, really wise thing to do!